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05-02-2019, 10:06 PM - 1 Like   #46
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My tap water quality is of very good (NY City), however I still use
demineralized or distilled water for all steps prior to the final rinse.

Chris

05-06-2019, 06:04 AM   #47
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So finally some results. Just scanning my last roll of FP4 plus and whilst there is still spotting on some frames, it is much less noticeable than prior rolls and some frames have no spotting at all. The negatives seem to look 'cleaner' too.
The only difference I did compared to last time was do the stop bath with de-mineralised water.

I will keep an eye on this though as it's only one roll so far and there still is some spotting. I may also try an acid stop bath soon too.
05-11-2019, 06:34 AM - 2 Likes   #48
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I have an update after being in contact with Ilford.
After sharing some photos Ilford quickly identified the cause of the spots and provided this very detailed reply (shortened a little):

From looking at your images, I am now unfortunately recognising the spots as being linked to an interaction with the wrapper.
Whenever I've seen the sort of mottle/spot effect as seen in your images raised to me before - its typically never been more than 10-12
individual complaint incidents reported to me in any given year, and its mostly only ever been on Pan F Plus roll film and only very occasionally
on FP4+ roll film (and virtually no incidents on any other roll film products).

For those very few prior complaints, its always only affected roll film format (and never mini) - because of the link to wrapper.

The presence of spots presence has never historically been linked to an entire slit of roll film wrapper. Nor ever been linked to any coating/finishing problems with any given batch of film. In terms of why 'some' wrapper only, is affected, its mostly only ever been found to link to fractionally too little lacquer being applied. (We
are now applying higher levels of lacquer - as well as carrying out more QC checks).
When its arisen - its typically only been 1 customer flagging it up on any one given batch, and despite 1000's of other 120 roll films coming off that exact same batch, all other films made, have been unaffected. So although the spots are part triggered by products perhaps not being
100% robust to interaction effects from wrappers, and to wrapper that has not had quite enough lacquer applied - we know they are also part
accountable to external trigger factors such as below :-

- Its arisen on films that were old/had exceeded our guide expiry dates.
- Its arisen on films that were proven to have been poorly stored (subjected to extreme high temperatures, or to high RH) - or subjected to fluctuating temperatures/RH.
- Its arisen on films that have been left exposed a long time before being processed.
- Its arisen with films that haven't been given a long enough time to acclimatise when taken out of a fridge/freezer - before being camera exposed.
- Its arisen when very long exposures have been given.
- Its arisen before when people have pre-soaked the films - prior to developing them.
- Its occasionally arisen when obscure developers or pyro processing was given.
- Its arisen when peoples films have passed through airport scanners.
- Its arisen when peoples films have been subjected to high temperatures when shooting them/after shooting them.

We know lacquer levels can vary on wrappers (despite us now tighter controlling this, and applying more and doing more QC checks) - but
typically if all the above customer triggers are prevented (ie store film well, use in date, process within a few weeks of exposing films etc
etc) - no interactions arise.

Clearly as we acknowledge wrapper is a part cause, I'm definitely going to send you replacement film(s


I discussed all this further with Ilford and there isn't a clear case for any of the above extrernal trigger factors for my films. The closest I can think of is that maybe my films were exposed to high temperatures during transport - before I received them. Basically I guess that I was just unlucky.
In any case I am very impressed by the level of support and service I received after contacting Ilford. I never know what to expect when reaching out to a company as a retail customer however on this occasion was put in contact with a very friendly and helpful person who actually worked directly in technical and QC. She has already sent me a tracking number for the replacement films! So hopefully there will be no issues with those.
05-11-2019, 07:23 AM - 1 Like   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by goddo31 Quote

[SIZE="4"][SIZE="2"][B][I]From looking at your images, I am now unfortunately recognising the spots as being linked to an interaction with the wrapper.
Wow. Thanks for sharing this. I'm impressed that Ilford gave such a detailed response. Learning new stuff every day!

And as this was also mentioned: Its arisen before when people have pre-soaked the films - prior to developing them.

I have always been one to practice pre-wetting or pre-soaking films before the developer, but now it seems this is not advised and I will eliminate that step.


Last edited by Alex645; 05-11-2019 at 09:44 AM.
05-11-2019, 01:18 PM - 1 Like   #50
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Amazingly thoughtful analysis and response from the manufacturer.
Clearly they are very concerned with quality control of their products,
both during and after manufacture. Another reason to love Ilford!

Chris

Last edited by ChrisPlatt; 05-11-2019 at 05:34 PM.
05-11-2019, 05:04 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
Amazingly thoughtful analysis and response from the manufacturer.
Clearly they are very concerned with quality control of their products,
both before and after manufacture. Another reason to love Ilford!

Chris
Yep. I'm going to make a point to try all of the Ilford films now and to support them as much as I can.
05-12-2019, 07:29 AM   #52
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I use a Pyro developer and it's on their list.
05-12-2019, 01:06 PM - 1 Like   #53
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Ilford’s response in its detail is outstanding, very much in-depth, in a word “Impressive”. Thank you for sharing their detailed response.

05-12-2019, 01:30 PM   #54
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Edit: Seems that I missed the solution when offering a suggestion, so deleted as not relevant. Well done Ilford
05-12-2019, 05:04 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
I use a Pyro developer and it's on their list.
Do you use other developers too? That's a bummer although hopefully the chances are low enough that you won't see it again...
05-13-2019, 06:37 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by goddo31 Quote
Do you use other developers too? That's a bummer although hopefully the chances are low enough that you won't see it again...
Yes I do.
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