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07-01-2019, 08:47 AM   #1
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B&W Developer for Pushing

Hello,

This is a follow up of What B&W Developer to Choose - PentaxForums.com which I think deserves a new thread.

Long story short, my cousin asked if I could lend her one of my film cameras along with a roll of B&W film, and I gave her a roll of Kentmere 100 (it is my only roll of "value" B&W film that I am really willing to lend as I have used up all my Kentmere 400 and I only have some Ilfords lying around) along with my PZ-1 and SMC-F 24-50/4. Since this is probably her first time doing photography with a SLR (and she said that she would only be using the "green mode"), I decided to set a DX override of EI 200 and push the film accordingly. I will probably be going to the same lab I mentioned in the previous post, but I will probably not pay for the "premium" tier since I think it is an overkill. Therefore I would be limited to choose between D-76, ID-11, Rodinal, and HC-110. My cousin is probably looking for a classic "film look" and I have read somewhere that HC-110 was developed for photojournalism, and therefore pushes well. However, I would like some other inputs, especially on two questions:

- Is it worth paying for DD-X? It is a small extra fee (10 CNY or around 1.5 USD of an extra charge compared to HC-110).
- Will D-76 or ID-11 work better if she is looking for a "classic" film look with some visible grain?

Sincerely

07-01-2019, 10:22 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by butangmucat Quote
I gave her a roll of Kentmere 100, I decided to set a DX override of EI 200 and push the film accordingly.

- Is it worth paying for DD-X? It is a small extra fee (10 CNY or around 1.5 USD of an extra charge compared to HC-110).
- Will D-76 or ID-11 work better if she is looking for a "classic" film look with some visible grain?
What is $1.50 USD worth where you live? In the US, that's so little, it's not a factor for one roll.

Will DD-X push Kentmere 100 one stop better than D76 or ID11? Yes.
Will D76 or ID11 work better if she wants classic grain? Yes.

Based on what you've posted, I'd recommend going with the ID11 (D76 is almost identical) and mainly because of how it will render a more classic tonal range and grain; not because you'll save $1.50 USD.
07-01-2019, 10:43 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
What is $1.50 USD worth where you live? In the US, that's so little, it's not a factor for one roll.



Will DD-X push Kentmere 100 one stop better than D76 or ID11? Yes.

Will D76 or ID11 work better if she wants classic grain? Yes.



Based on what you've posted, I'd recommend going with the ID11 (D76 is almost identical) and mainly because of how it will render a more classic tonal range and grain; not because you'll save $1.50 USD.


It is about 3 bottles of Coca-Cola, or a reasonable breakfast, or 1/3 the price I paid for the roll of Kentmere 100. Not a huge sum of money, but not exactly pennies either. So I do want to cut that cost if it is not necessary.

I originally leaned towards HC-110 because AFAIK it is almost the gold standard in photojournalism and my cousin wants the classic look. I was also a bit worried because I never used DD-X before, and HC-110 is one of the developers I have had some experience.

I never used D-76 or ID-11 before, but Old School Photo Lab in Connecticut, US used Clayton F76+, which is probably pretty similar?




---------- Post added 07-01-19 at 10:48 AM ----------

And I am also wondering for my specific need, will ID-11 work better or HC-110?
07-01-2019, 11:45 AM   #4
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I have a whole thread about Clayton F76+ - Clayton F76! - PentaxForums.com

I've not tried out the film you're asking about so there isn't a clear statement in there about how well it pushes (I don't know if there's a clear statement in that thread about anything besides my sort of meandering means of playing around with F76). The stuff is cheap, it has nice shelf stability (so you don't have a short amount of time to use a bottle once open), it's a liquid that's easy to mix, and it seems like a good 'compromise' developer that can be used to push decently (thought not tops of the charts) with fairly fine grain. If you want to get into developing film, and can figure out the shipping, I could definitely see using F76.

Out of the developers you can ask for, HC-110 would interest me the most, with Rodinal in second place. Rodinal is said to be excellent for pushing but it gives very grainy output. HC-110 probably isn't as good for pushing as Rodinal but the grain is much better controlled. Honestly, when the gallon of F76 that I'm slowly working through runs out, I'll move to HC-110 as I want to try something different and I like what I've seen and read about this developer.

07-01-2019, 03:28 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by butangmucat Quote
my cousin wants the classic look.

I never used D-76 or ID-11 before, but Old School Photo Lab in Connecticut, US used Clayton F76+, which is probably pretty similar?




---------- Post added 07-01-19 at 10:48 AM ----------

And I am also wondering for my specific need, will ID-11 work better or HC-110?
Clayton F76 is nearly identical to Kodak D76.

It should be noted that photojournalists almost always shot with 400 ISO films (or higher) so the technical benefits of HC-100 will not give you the classic photojournalistic aesthetic on Kentmere 100.
With Tri-X or HP5+ at 800 EI, yes. For your specific situation, I'd recommend ID11.
07-01-2019, 07:14 PM   #6
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I thought we determined that F76+ and D-76 are not that chemically similar.


Have we determined what "the classic photojournalistic aesthetic" is? Push Kentmere 100 two stops in HC-110 and see if that meets the grade. One stop probably isn't enough to be a really constrasty, slightly grainy roll.
07-01-2019, 07:41 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
I thought we determined that F76+ and D-76 are not that chemically similar.
I am not a chemist, so I'll let those who can, compare Material Data Safety sheets linked below.

https://www.freestylephoto.biz/pdf/msds/clayton/Clayton_F76_Developer.pdf
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/static/pdf/msds/kodak/Kodak_-_D76_Developer_-_MSDS.pdf

What I do know is when I used to order from Freestyle, I was using D76 and switched to Clayton F76, because they claimed it was
Designed to match Kodak D-76 in quality of tonal range, grain structure and contrast.

In practice I found this was true.

I am not saying they are identical. However, I am saying that from my own experience, I found them more similar than D76 and ID11.
07-01-2019, 08:02 PM - 1 Like   #8
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We had that discussion too, that chemicals in the developers may not be listed on the MSDS, as long as those chemicals are not toxic enough to require listing on the MSDS. Notice that the chemcials listed in the Clayton .pdf only account for about 12% of the total contents.

I think tonal range seems better with D-76 based on images I've found on the internet, but I also probably put this developer up against situations where good range is going to be more challenging, like really low light scenes.

I do believe it to be a good all-around developer and think it was a good pick for the first developer I've worked with. I could probably use the stuff forever if it wasn't for wanting to dry something different. The only real issue I have with it is that isn't not so commonly used so there aren't weirdos out there trying to perfect stand development with it like other developers. Probably the next silly thing I try to do with it is push a roll of Kodak Ultramax 400 some serious amount just for kicks.

07-02-2019, 07:23 AM   #9
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I always used D-76 for developing Tri-X, and several fine grain developers on the fine grain films used for specimen photography. However, HC-110 which I rarely used always had a reputation as the go-to developer if you wanted to stretch a film's characteristics. It seems to be the developer for experimenting with dilutions and development time for pushing or pulling.
07-02-2019, 07:26 AM   #10
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Tri-X in F76 is the bomb!



That's about a two stop push in a dark (but not extremely) club scene.
07-02-2019, 08:06 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
I have a whole thread about Clayton F76+ - Clayton F76! - PentaxForums.com

I've not tried out the film you're asking about so there isn't a clear statement in there about how well it pushes (I don't know if there's a clear statement in that thread about anything besides my sort of meandering means of playing around with F76). The stuff is cheap, it has nice shelf stability (so you don't have a short amount of time to use a bottle once open), it's a liquid that's easy to mix, and it seems like a good 'compromise' developer that can be used to push decently (thought not tops of the charts) with fairly fine grain. If you want to get into developing film, and can figure out the shipping, I could definitely see using F76.

Out of the developers you can ask for, HC-110 would interest me the most, with Rodinal in second place. Rodinal is said to be excellent for pushing but it gives very grainy output. HC-110 probably isn't as good for pushing as Rodinal but the grain is much better controlled. Honestly, when the gallon of F76 that I'm slowly working through runs out, I'll move to HC-110 as I want to try something different and I like what I've seen and read about this developer.
Unfortunately, F76+ is not available here in China... I've tried to find a lab that can do it, but it seems that no one really bothered to have this developer imported for some reason.

The most common developers here are D-76 and HC-110 (and their Chinese clones), even TMaxRS and Xtol is a sort of rarity. Rodinal is common for home processing, but not a whole bunch of commercial labs bother to provide that etiher. DD-X is somewhat more common, but it is usually grossly overpriced (like 3x the price of D-76), so I am delighted to find a lab that only charges a small premium.
07-02-2019, 01:19 PM   #12
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What is the "classic film look" from a BW devloper I wonder. You have cubic grain film and tabular grain film. One of these types of film will yield a more "classical" BW film look than the other with pretty much any developer you use.
07-02-2019, 01:35 PM   #13
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HC-110 or a clone seems like a slam dunk here.
07-02-2019, 01:44 PM   #14
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Which dilution of HC-110?
07-02-2019, 01:59 PM   #15
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Can't speak to that as I've never used the stuff myself.
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