[fs999]

Okay, I see there is a formula for this. So are you seeing more dynamic range?

Yes and less apparent grain. On that photo I added too much contrast, but the shadows are well detailed.

Another one less contrasted

[tuco]

Yes and less apparent grain.

Yeah, smaller grain is a indication. I see that when I compress 400TMY. It looks like the grain of 100TMX. I don't do it much recording now but on a high contrast scenes I would write down the EV values of objects in the scene with my one-degree spot meter and see about how many stops of light I was capturing.

[brewmaster15]

Still playing with Cross processing C-41 as Black and white..

One of my best so far....


fuji X-tra400( expired 2017) Cross processed Black and White with Caffenol -c-m 20min

[Cerebum]

There is a guy on eBay uk selling bulk rolls of XP2 that expired in 2020 but were cold stored and have lost no sensitivity. They are £55, XP2 on ilfords site is £102 so its a steal. My plan is to try HC110, rodders and ID-11. That's the lovely thing about (and the fun of) bulk loading, I can do short rolls, not economical long term but great for testing. I will post when I have images.

[Wheatfield]

There is a guy on eBay uk selling bulk rolls of XP2 that expired in 2020 but were cold stored and have lost no sensitivity. They are £55, XP2 on ilfords site is £102 so its a steal. My plan is to try HC110, rodders and ID-11. That's the lovely thing about (and the fun of) bulk loading, I can do short rolls, not economical long term but great for testing. I will post when I have images.

In C-41 processing, the developer creates a silver halide image and activates the colour couplers and colour dyes that are incorporated in the film which bind the colour dyes to the silver image. A C-41 film has a dozen or so layers to make this magic happen. After the development, the film is bleached, which convers the silver halide image back to a state that the fixer can dissolve it, and the fixer then removes the silver from the film, leaving only the colour dyes behind.

What you get when you process a C-41 film in B&W developer is a generally less stable silver halide image as the colour couplers and dyes are left in the film to degrade over time.

[Cerebum]

In C-41 processing, the developer creates a silver halide image and activates the colour couplers and colour dyes that are incorporated in the film which bind the colour dyes to the silver image. A C-41 film has a dozen or so layers to make this magic happen. After the development, the film is bleached, which convers the silver halide image back to a state that the fixer can dissolve it, and the fixer then removes the silver from the film, leaving only the colour dyes behind.

What you get when you process a C-41 film in B&W developer is a generally less stable silver halide image as the colour couplers and dyes are left in the film to degrade over time.

Yeah. One or two of the guys on other forums mentioned that the process was incomplete and long term storage of negatives is an issue. From my own perspective, I don't tend to keep negatives once I have checked the scans so longer (or mid) term degradation isn't an issue for me. It could be that I don't like the results in any B&W chems, in which case I will invest in c41, but I have seen some lovely results and I am hoping I get nice image quality. And if I do, then £55 for 100ft of XP2 is a steal

One thing that is interesting, my friend developed XP2 in caffeinol six years ago and his negatives are as good as the day they were developed. I wonder if there is something in caffeinol that fixes the dyes

[Wheatfield]

Yeah. One or two of the guys on other forums mentioned that the process was incomplete and long term storage of negatives is an issue. From my own perspective, I don't tend to keep negatives once I have checked the scans so longer (or mid) term degradation isn't an issue for me. It could be that I don't like the results in any B&W chems, in which case I will invest in c41, but I have seen some lovely results and I am hoping I get nice image quality. And if I do, then £55 for 100ft of XP2 is a steal

One thing that is interesting, my friend developed XP2 in caffeinol six years ago and his negatives are as good as the day they were developed. I wonder if there is something in caffeinol that fixes the dyes

No. The dyes are still encapsulated in the dye layer. I suspect that XP-2 processed in B&W developer will last longer that when C-41 processed as the chromogenic dye image is much less stable than normal colour dyes.
The chromogenic dye is actually a very deep red IIRC, and quite prone to fading. I had a few rolls of the Kodak chromogenic film around that faded to unusable within a decade. I never did use XP-2, though I did shoot a bit of XP-1. It was shot on spec for another company and so I didn't retain the film.

[Cerebum]

No. The dyes are still encapsulated in the dye layer. I suspect that XP-2 processed in B&W developer will last longer that when C-41 processed as the chromogenic dye image is much less stable than normal colour dyes.
The chromogenic dye is actually a very deep red IIRC, and quite prone to fading. I had a few rolls of the Kodak chromogenic film around that faded to unusable within a decade. I never did use XP-2, though I did shoot a bit of XP-1. It was shot on spec for another company and so I didn't retain the film.

Aaah OK, I think I am getting it I understand the basics of the process but chemical reactions, in fact chemistry as a whole is a mystery to me. Its a shame you aren't local. I could spin you up a roll. It will be interesting to see the results. The price I paid is similar to that of foma400 which I don't love. I have shot xp2 and had it developed in c41, its a really nice film, nicer IMO than HP5+ in fact it is one of three 400s that I really like, the others being Delta and Rollei Retro 400s, so if I can recreate the c41 quality I will be over the moon here's hoping. I am very encouraged by the images in this thread