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02-06-2020, 07:03 PM   #1
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Cross Processed experiment by a rookie.

So, I'm a curious guy. I have a science background and love experiments... I have literally only developed 5 rolls of film so far...so this is all new to me. When I left my analogue for digital, I had a refrigerator full of film.. I gave a bunch away over the years but I still have a bit left. I figured I would use some to play around with cross processing c41 film to black and white.

I shot a roll of Fuji superia 400 that was expired 2014 and pushed it to 800 iso. Did the same with a roll of ilford XP 2 super, expired 2017... also pushed to 800. Both were developed together using caffenol "stand"method.. The fuji film did not do well.. They weren't terrible but the emulsion had some blotchy artifact on it.. It was probably long gone by..I think that was a walmart roll so it probably wasn't stored well before me.


The Ilford XP2 super 400 was a real surprise for a c41 film.. It worked really well with the Caffenol. Take that with a grain of salt as at this point I am just pleased to see images on the negatives! scanned on epson V600 ..



















I also shot a roll of Ilford HP5+ and kentmere 400 at the same time ( current expiration dates), and developed them with the same methods and same solutions.. I haven't scanned them though yet... the v600 is slowwwww.


Anybody else cross process ilford xp2 400 to black and white? I'd be interested in seeing pics if you have them and to know what developer you used.

Al


Last edited by brewmaster15; 02-06-2020 at 07:53 PM.
02-06-2020, 07:43 PM   #2
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Nicely done. Nope I mostly cross E6 in C41 when I do.
02-07-2020, 04:41 AM   #3
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How do you push film with stand development?
02-07-2020, 04:46 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by painter Quote
nicely done. Nope i mostly cross e6 in c41 when i do.
thank you!

---------- Post added 02-07-20 at 04:59 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
How do you push film with stand development?
The formula I used last time said to go 70 minutes on the developer as a starting point. I think theres alot of variability to the many recipes out there based on the sources of coffees and ratios...I figured I would use 60 min as a start time for standard developing and take it from there. 60 MINS worked well on my first roll.

For pushed film 400 to 800 I figured I would try increasing the time to 80 min...

Having shot mostly slides in the past I never pushed film before so this was my first attempt at it and my go at developing pushed film myself.

AL


Last edited by brewmaster15; 02-07-2020 at 05:03 AM.
02-07-2020, 05:35 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by brewmaster15 Quote

For pushed film 400 to 800 I figured I would try increasing the time to 80 min...
Okay, thanks.

One thought on that subject is stand development is development to completion of either exhausted developer or the film (which is suppose to happen). They say a 1-hour stand in Rodinal and your film is done. There is no more to develop. Adding any additional time does not add more development.
02-07-2020, 06:20 AM   #6
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Thats interesting. Thanks for the info. From what I gather with caffenol they dont really know how much active ingredients are in a particular coffee... so its not standardized like rodinal or the other commercial preps.Its kind of trial and error for each recipe... see what works best and take it from there. I decided to evaluate this particular formula for a bit and then try others.. At some point I will shoot two cameras,same film and develop with a commercial vs caffenol.

I think when they say "stand "with caffenol they generally mean .. apply developer, agitate and leave it be for the remainder of time.

I know for a fact that the time frame of 80 mins here definitely did not exhaust the developer as I used it for two other rolls which developed fine.

AL
02-07-2020, 06:53 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by brewmaster15 Quote

I think when they say "stand "with caffenol they generally mean .. apply developer, agitate and leave it be for the remainder of time.

AL
That's the process for stand in Rodinal too.

When info gets passed around on the internet and someone, say, posts a stand time for a coffee developer, you hope they made measurements and conducted tests to find out if there were no more shadow detail to be had instead of shooting from the hip.
02-07-2020, 07:06 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
That's the process for stand in Rodinal too.

When info gets passed around on the internet and someone, say, posts a stand time for a coffee developer, you hope they made measurements and conducted tests to find out if there were no more shadow detail to be had instead of shooting from the hip.
I understand where you are coming from but thats the difference between a commercial developer made by a lab with all the tech gear and a DIY movement such as the caffenol projects. Theres a wealth of experiences being shared and things tried as the knowledge base improves..I think they are shooting less and less from from the hip as info is gained and more with aim as the knowledge grows. "The caffenol cookbook" is free to download.If you haven't done so maybe give it a read.With your background in developing with commercial preps maybe you will get more info from it than I have.
At this point I am impressed by what an open source developer has been accomplishing.
AL

02-07-2020, 07:21 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by brewmaster15 Quote
I understand where you are coming from but thats the difference between a commercial developer made by a lab with all the tech gear and a DIY movement such as the caffenol projects. Theres a wealth of experiences being shared and things tried as the knowledge base improves..I think they are shooting less and less from from the hip as info is gained and more with aim as the knowledge grows. "The caffenol cookbook" is free to download.If you haven't done so maybe give it a read.With your background in developing with commercial preps maybe you will get more info from it than I have.
At this point I am impressed by what an open source developer has been accomplishing.
AL
Thanks again. I'll check it out sometime.

If you like mixing your own developers, here is one I have in my toolbox that is perhaps even simpler than coffee. It's D-23. It's only two dry chemicals (Metol and Sodium Sulfite) you mix before use as one-shot. Very long shelf life of course, results similar to D-76 both in look and development times, compresses and expands well ( used mostly today by LF Zone System photographers) and a good choice for a gentle mood and highlights.
02-07-2020, 07:50 AM   #10
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I'll add for some clarity when you stand develop for around an hour, you are developing that long to fully develop all the shadow detail possible. The highlights were fully developed a long time ago within that hour. And how much shadow detail you can possibly get was fixed at the time of your exposure.
02-10-2020, 07:15 AM - 1 Like   #11
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I use Caffenol CLCS with high speed films like XP2 and others.
I haven't tested all commercially available developers, but my best results are with Caffenol.

Plaubel Makina 67
Ilford XP2 400 developed in Caffenol CLCS (Cold Start) stand 90min @ 15-20C

Click on the photo to see it larger...

An other example pulling Tri-X :

Plaubel Makina 67 • Nikkor 1:2.8 80mm
Kodak Tri-X @100 ISO developed in Caffenol CLCS (Cold Start) stand 60min @15-20C

Click on the photo to see it larger...
02-10-2020, 10:02 AM - 1 Like   #12
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Frederic, Thanks for the pics and info. I checked out the bigger pic on Flickr.... Nice resolving and great details and tones. Very nice work!


al
02-11-2020, 12:24 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by fs999 Quote
An other example pulling Tri-X :

Kodak Tri-X @100 ISO developed in Caffenol CLCS (Cold Start) stand 60min @15-20C
How does that work? Pulling, aka highlight compression, means over exposing ( you did at EI 100) and under developing to cut the highlights from developing too much from the over exposure (you compress them). How do you under develop with stand development for 60 minutes? Remember highlights develop much faster than the shadows. You compress highlights to get more dynamic range.

Last edited by tuco; 02-11-2020 at 12:57 AM.
02-11-2020, 02:30 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
How does that work? Pulling, aka highlight compression, means over exposing ( you did at EI 100) and under developing to cut the highlights from developing too much from the over exposure (you compress them). How do you under develop with stand development for 60 minutes? Remember highlights develop much faster than the shadows. You compress highlights to get more dynamic range.
Normally Tri-X @400 should be developed in CLCS (CS for Cold Start at 15C(59F) and let go up to 20C(68F)) for 80 min. For push or pull simply add or remove 10 min per EV. So 80-20 = 60 min. Don't forget that shadows are also overexposed too, so they need less time to show up.

Last edited by fs999; 02-12-2020 at 03:16 AM.
02-11-2020, 03:10 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by fs999 Quote
Normally Tri-X @400 should be developed in CLCS (CS for Cold Start at 15C(59F) and let go up to 20C(68F)) for 80 min. For push or pull simply add or remove 10 min per EV. So 80-20 = 60 min. Don't forget that shadows are also overexposed to, so they need less time to show up.
Okay, I see there is a formula for this. So are you seeing more dynamic range?
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