[disconnekt]

Currently shooting Ultrafine Xtreme 100 & developing it in Legacypro's L-110 (Kodak hc110 equivalent), and going to shoot a few rolls at 50 iso, and am looking for any tips for how much of the developing time should be reduced for it?

I have looked online for tips/recommendations, but they all pretty much just give general information about pushing & pulling film.
One site I did find said that a good rough guideline is to reduce the developing time 10% for every 1 stop, and in one book the author recommended to reduce the dev time 10-20% for 1 stop, and 25-30% for 2 stops.

Is reducing the developing time by 10% a good starting point? Has anybody here shot Ultrafine Xtreme 100 at 50 iso before?


P.s.: The normal dev time for the film in hc-110 in Dilution B is 8:30m

[Wheatfield]

Currently shooting Ultrafine Xtreme 100 & developing it in Legacypro's L-110 (Kodak hc110 equivalent), and going to shoot a few rolls at 50 iso, and am looking for any tips for how much of the developing time should be reduced for it?

I have looked online for tips/recommendations, but they all pretty much just give general information about pushing & pulling film.
One site I did find said that a good rough guideline is to reduce the developing time 10% for every 1 stop, and in one book the author recommended to reduce the dev time 10-20% for 1 stop, and 25-30% for 2 stops.

Is reducing the developing time by 10% a good starting point? Has anybody here shot Ultrafine Xtreme 100 at 50 iso before?


P.s.: The normal dev time for the film in hc-110 in Dilution B is 8:30m

10% sounds about right as a starting point, but you should test to dial things in accurately.
Generally, N- processing is done to reduce contrast.
When I was shooting 4x5, I typically rated the film several stops under the manufacturers speed and gave very reduced development as well. I found that in my conditions, the ISO speed didn't give sufficient shadow detail and the rated processing time gave far more contrast than I wanted.

[tuco]

Maybe someone here has shot that combo and does highlight compression. But otherwise I think you have to pick a starting point and begin testing if you want to be more precise. I'd start with a 15% reduction myself. With my Pyro developer and tabular grain films like T-Max and Arcos, I do around a 33% reduction for 2-stop under box speed. But it's not a box speed developer either. That developer is good at compression and not so good at expansion, for instance. But different developers have different characteristics.

[stevebrot]

Currently shooting Ultrafine Xtreme 100 & developing it in Legacypro's L-110 (Kodak hc110 equivalent), and going to shoot a few rolls at 50 iso, and am looking for any tips for how much of the developing time should be reduced for it?

What is your intent with the lower ISO?*

As noted above, underdevelopment is generally used to decrease contrast. Any adjustment of exposure (shooting at lower EI) is done to compensate for loss in the low values and would be determined experimentally using test shots.

FWIW, 8' 30" with dilution B sounds a little long by probably 50%.** The Massive Dev chart suggests 10 minutes with dilution H (1+63) for EI 100 with that film and is where I would probably start, assuming strict equivalence of LC-110 for the real thing. I would then do a test roll with a subject intended to challenge the dynamic range extremes (I include white towel and black plush fabric a well as continuous tones and an exposure wedge). Do exposures +/- three stops from box speed and see which EI wins for that combination of film and developer.

Have fun!


Steve

* Technically, the proper term is EI (Exposure Index) when shooting other than box speed with normal development.

** Compared to ISO 100 films I work with. I quit using dilution B several years ago because the development times were generally too short for what I consider useful for the gentle agitation approach I prefer.

---

Last edited by stevebrot; 02-27-2020 at 11:34 AM.

[disconnekt]

What is your intent with the lower ISO?*

As noted above, underdevelopment is generally used to decrease contrast. Any adjustment of exposure (shooting at lower EI) is done to compensate for loss in the low values and would be determined experimentally using test shots.

FWIW, 8' 30" with dilution B sounds a little long by probably 50%.** The Massive Dev chart suggests 10 minutes with dilution H (1+63) for EI 100 with that film and is where I would probably start, assuming strict equivalence of LC-110 for the real thing. I would then do a test roll with a subject intended to challenge the dynamic range extremes (I include white towel and black plush fabric a well as continuous tones and an exposure wedge). Do exposures +/- three stops from box speed and see which EI wins for that combination of film and developer.

Have fun!


Steve

* Technically, the proper term is EI (Exposure Index) when shooting other than box speed with normal development.

** Compared to ISO 100 films I work with. I quit using dilution B several years ago because the development times were generally too short for what I consider useful for the gentle agitation approach I prefer.

Mostly to use the wider apertures on my lenses.

On the Ultrafine website their pdf shows that for their Ultrafine Extreme 100 in Hc-110, the dev time is 8.5 minutes and says that the film can be pushed & pulled 1 stop, but doesnt give any times for when it's set at 50 iso or 200 iso.

For pushed times for 1 stop, they suggest increasing the developing time by 1.25x* when using a standard developer and 1.4x* when using a compensating developer. They pdf can be found here: Film Development Chart - Traditional Black-and-White Films

*I tried pushing it once at 200 iso and tried increasing the time by 1.25x liked they suggested and the images looked meh/underexposed a bit, though on photrio.com someone said they tried pushing the film and increased the dev time by 1.5x (50%) and the images looked pretty good, so for pushing at least I have a better starting point.

---------- Post added 02-27-20 at 05:45 PM ----------

Maybe someone here has shot that combo and does highlight compression. But otherwise I think you have to pick a starting point and begin testing if you want to be more precise. I'd start with a 15% reduction myself. With my Pyro developer and tabular grain films like T-Max and Arcos, I do around a 33% reduction for 2-stop under box speed. But it's not a box speed developer either. That developer is good at compression and not so good at expansion, for instance. But different developers have different characteristics.

Yeah, thats what I was thinking of doing. In the book I read by Henry Horenstein, "Black & White Photography 3rd Ed. A Basic Manul", he says that if your pulling 1 stop to lessen the dev time by 10-20% and for 2 stops 25-30%, so I may just try those recommended reduction times, 15% for 1 stop and 30% for 2 stops (if Im feeling brave on pulling 2 stops lol)

I know alot of people say that Ultrafine Extreme 100 & 400 is just rebadged Kentmere, but afaik it's not 100% confirmed, so kinda hesitant on trying Kentmere 100 times.

[tuco]

... if Im feeling brave on pulling 2 stops lol...

Go for it! Shoot some 400 tabular grain film at EI 100 just to see what you get. It's no different than finding a development time for EI 200.

400TMY @ EI 100

[PWhite214]

I would use L110 100 to 1 stand develop. I usually let stand 1 hour, moving the film tank into the frig occasionally. So far have got very nice results.

[stevebrot]

I would use L110 100 to 1 stand develop. I usually let stand 1 hour, moving the film tank into the frig occasionally. So far have got very nice results.

I have had good results with HC-110 dilution G (1+119) semi-stand for 20 minutes as a compensating developer. I am always careful to make sure I have minimum 6ml of the concentrate to allow development to proceed to completion (as opposed to exhaustion). This is a bit of a pain because it drives the total volume way up (720ml) resulting in having to use a fairly large tank for even one roll.

Is that part of your approach?


Steve

[tuco]

But how is stand developing going to cut short the developing highlights from the over exposure (100 film at EI 50)?

[stevebrot]

But how is stand developing going to cut short the developing highlights from the over exposure (100 film at EI 50)?

It shouldn't, per se. The intent, after all, is to fully develop the shadows while slowing development of the highlights. That being said, if the stand development were to exhaustion, it may be that highlight overexposure might be avoided, though I would expect very low contrast overall.

Addendum: In regards to estimating dev time for a one stop pull at normal temp with normal agitation, one approach might be to apply math, assuming that box speed development time is 30% longer than one stop slower. For 8' 30" normal dev, time for EI 50 might be 6' 32".


Steve

[tuco]

It shouldn't, per se. The intent, after all, is to fully develop the shadows while slowing development of the highlights. That being said, if the stand development were to exhaustion, it may be that highlight overexposure might be avoided, though I would expect very low contrast overall.


Steve

I think the more diluted and longer you let a film sit in a tank, the harder it is to control just when you are stopping those highlights from developing in a predictable way. But I dunno.

[stevebrot]

I think the more diluted and longer you let a film sit in a tank, the harder it is to control just when you are stopping those highlights from developing in a predictable way. But I dunno.

I agree...I would not use that approach. I do stand and semi-stand to completion aiming for box speed. I did a late edit above to address the original request.


Steve

[PWhite214]

Currently shooting Ultrafine Xtreme 100 & developing it in Legacypro's L-110 (Kodak hc110 equivalent), and going to shoot a few rolls at 50 iso, and am looking for any tips for how much of the developing time should be reduced for it?

I have looked online for tips/recommendations, but they all pretty much just give general information about pushing & pulling film.
One site I did find said that a good rough guideline is to reduce the developing time 10% for every 1 stop, and in one book the author recommended to reduce the dev time 10-20% for 1 stop, and 25-30% for 2 stops.

Is reducing the developing time by 10% a good starting point? Has anybody here shot Ultrafine Xtreme 100 at 50 iso before?


P.s.: The normal dev time for the film in hc-110 in Dilution B is 8:30m

I buy film in 100 Ft rolls so I can load short 12 exposure for testing. I start develop testing, and often use, L110 diluted 100 to one and stand develop for one hour. Cutting develop time to less than 5 minutes, in my opinion, can cause errors in repeat ability, even in a one roll tank. Maybe try Dilution H, 1+63 from concentrate. Digitaltruth shows 12 minutes, so cutting 10 or 20 percent should not cause a problem. Try shooting a few frames, cut the film and cut a new leader, load and develop. Five or six exposures at a time will not use too much film, and let you 'zero in' on what you want.

You might check FilmDev.org for more info, I am sure there are similar sites, photographer's like to experiment. Keep notes and post your results.

The main thing is have fun!

[disconnekt]

I developed the roll I shot at 50 the other day, pulled the time by 15% (which would've came out to 7:15), and because the distilled water was at 72°F I used the Massive Dev Chart "Time/Temp Converter" (here: Massive Dev Chart Film Development, Film Developing Database) to adjust the time for the warmer water which came out to 5:48 but I just rounded it out 6 Minutes and it came 😚*mwa*French Kiss*

[Pioneer]

Someone mentioned that Ultrafine Extreme is rebadged Kentmere. Just out of curiosity, where is Ultrafine Extreme manufactured?

BTW, I have a roll of UFX400 that I accidentally exposed at EI-100 so I intend to pull process by about 30% with HC-110. We'll see if it works.