[brewmaster15]

Hi all,

Question here on water. I have read some recommend you should use distilled water or purified water when developing film. Others I think just use tap water. I am trying to get an understanding of how water chemistry affects the process and final product. Coming from an aquarium and lab background, I am sure there are effects from "bad" water, but what constitutes "bad" water for developing Black and White films and what affect does different waters have on it? This is other than temp as I understand how temp drives reactions.

I'd appreciate hearing what those of you developing your own use for water, have run into as far as problems etc. Thanks in advance.

Al

[pres589]

The problem I had, which distilled should help with, is water spots. Harder water with greater calcium and lyme and such is more prone to causing water spots on the negatives as the negative dries. I use distilled for mixing chemicals and a final rinse with photo-flo or similar product to try and get the negative clean as it dries. The rinse stage where a relatively large amount of water is to be used, I do that with tap water, then drain and fill with distilled for a final rinse.

I had a lot of issues with water spots on negatives over the year or two I developed film (currently on pause due to moving and not having everything together to dev film a home but trying to get back to it) and input from others would probably be helpful. The measures I took to avoid water spots and what finally worked for me seemed like much more effort than what I was told should be sufficient.

[Kobayashi.K]

I use demineralised water as a precaution, it can help to get consistent results, or when there are problems you know beforehand the water is not a factor. It comes in 1 liter bottles which are used later to collect used developer and fixer for easy transport to the waste disposal facility in our city.

[StiffLegged]

Scotland has lovely soft water, and lots of it. I just used it straight from the tap with no issues. In areas with very hard water, such as in Wiltshire or London I would be very careful to use wetting agent and dry negatives very carefully to avoid spotting. Water from peat bogs or swamps might make lovely sepia toned prints...

[Bob 256]

Ditto! You actually only need to use it in the final rinse since it's the drying of hard water that leaves the spots. I use it for all my rinses since the water here is really hard and has lots of dissolved minerals. You can get a TDS meter cheaply to test your water if you don't know its quality.

[JensE]

Spur Acurol N explicitly specifies the use of demineralized water for the working solution. Due to the high degree of dilution, it is very susceptible to minerals. Other than that, I'm using regular tap + the condensed water from our laundry dryer (basically distilled) for the final wetting agent bath.

[disconnekt]

It depends on the quality of the tap water where you live. The tap water where I live is hard (has alot of minerals in it), and even though it developed the b&w film fine, it left alot of spots on the film even when I used photo flo (aka wetting agent).

I just get a gallon of distilled water from the 99cent store, and use it for the Developer, stop bath, & photo flo. I also use distilled water with the fixer I use.

For me, 1 gallon of distilled water is enough to develop 2 rolls of b&w film, which is around the amount of rolls shot a month.

[stevebrot]

My area has very hard water and I use D.I. water for presoak, mixing the developer, and for the the final rinse in Photoflo. This is fairly easy for me since I use a liquid concentrate developer (HC-110) and prepare directly from concentrate for each roll. As a result, I don't need to have more than a gallon or so of D.I. water on hand at any one time.

Addendum: Using D.I. water for mixing chemicals in hard water regions is tradition and conventional wisdom. The concern is that the developer components might form complexes with the hard water salts that would affect behavior and/or result in precipitates. I don't extend the practice to fixer, though I probably should.


Steve

[TomB_tx]

With our well water we have a R.O. filter for drinking, so I store a couple gallon bottles with the chemistry in my darkroom. I use it for all processes. For a single 35mm roll I use a small Nikor SS tank needing 250ml solutions. I also use the Ilford wash method: just 3 tanks full with continuous agitation, then a few drops of Flo in a final dunk. So no running water wash, and I use less than 2 liters for a roll. (Of course, cleaning equipment afterwards with just hot tap water.)
The purified water may not be necessary, but I get good, consistent results at low effort and cost.

Acetic acid is normally used in printing after development of the film - it's been so long for me I can't remember whether it's the developer or the fixer. Anyway, alkaline minerals normally occurring in tap water (esp. iron, calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, manganese, and zinc) will cause salts to form with the acetic acid, depleting its effect.

[PWhite214]

I use distilled water for all color film, tap water for B&W usually with Legacy L110 which is a HC110 clone. I am going to try Caffenol tomorrow on some old Kodak PX 125 film I shot yesterday. I will use distilled water for everything. chemical mix and washing.

[brewmaster15]

Thanks for all the experiences guys. I have had pretty decent success with my tap water but I do have a problem with crystalline spots on my negatives no matter how much I rinse.I do use kodak flo as my last step.I do have well water with medium hard water (calcium and magnesium) and have been using this.. I have an RO/DI filter I used to use for aquarium fish breeding I can use if I need to , so I think I will pick up some gallons of distilled water and run some tests and if theres improvement I will probably hook up the R/0 unit.Its just sitting right now and I have a ton of new membranes sitting in a box.

In my research, I across some online suggestions that a final wash with citric acid would help with mineral spottings. That makes sense as it would dissolve them and is a pretty gentle "acid". DISTILLED probably does similar and is a no fuss method... still, any experiences with the citric acid?

AL

---------- Post added 02-29-20 at 04:40 AM ----------

My area has very hard water and I use D.I. water for presoak, mixing the developer, and for the the final rinse in Photoflo. This is fairly easy for me since I use a liquid concentrate developer (HC-110) and prepare directly from concentrate for each roll. As a result, I don't need to have more than a gallon or so of D.I. water on hand at any one time.

Addendum: Using D.I. water for mixing chemicals in hard water regions is tradition and conventional wisdom. The concern is that the developer components might form complexes with the hard water salts that would affect behavior and/or result in precipitates. I don't extend the practice to fixer, though I probably should.


Steve

Steve,
I haven't presoaked any films yet. I have read some do, some don't.Some developing chemicals say not to. How long do you presoak? And whats your thinking on it? Where does it help? THX

---------- Post added 02-29-20 at 05:00 AM ----------

I use distilled water for all color film, tap water for B&W usually with Legacy L110 which is a HC110 clone. I am going to try Caffenol tomorrow on some old Kodak PX 125 film I shot yesterday. I will use distilled water for everything. chemical mix and washing.

Since taking up developing black and white film the beginning of this month I have used caffenol exclusively in various recipes and experiments. I have no experience yet with other developers though I have several here now to try in the near future once I am satisfied with caffenol. I really have been impressed with the caffenol developers that I have tried (based on my obviously limited background) My first month on this side of the hobby and I've gone through 24 rolls of film...box of empty canisters is filling fast. Alot of it has been in my fridge from 2009-2011 and is well aged.. I mean expired,LOL.. Some turned out better than others but the keep rate is growing so I am happy.

I've really enjoyed learning this aspect of the hobby as its something I always wanted to do.

Hope to see your results of the caffenol developing posted.

[tuco]

Developers that have sodium metaborate typically need distilled/de-ionized water. Otherwise, impurities in the water can cause it to precipitate. Non acidic fixers like TF-4/TF-5 also need distilled water. If you have hard water, Photo Flow or other wetting agent will help prevent spots when used as directed.

[Kobayashi.K]

For pre-soaking don't follow anyone's well-meant advise on a forum because most of them are religiously devoted to one system no matter what film they use. Just read the specific advise from the film manufacturer. Ilford notably doesn't recommend it.

[stevebrot]

Steve,
I haven't presoaked any films yet. I have read some do, some don't.Some developing chemicals say not to. How long do you presoak? And whats your thinking on it? Where does it help? THX

I only do it with films having antihalation dyes that are hard to remove. Fuji Acros (original version) is notorious for this trait.


Steve