[Alex645]

Yes, most certainly the Canon T2 EOS 300X. What's not to love?
On re-reading your post, I just caught the 'hands of the beholder' part. Beautiful, and true!

There IS a lot to love....but since you asked, here's my irrelevant opinion which for you and millions of others are not issues relative to the pros of all film Rebels:

-Not weather sealed
-Pentamirror not pentaprism
-Pricey disposable batteries
-One control wheel instead of two
-Unreliable weak motor for bulk loaded film
-Shoots backwards, so numeric orientation on contact sheets are reversed

I don't mean to derail what is the point of B&W film? And I absolutely do not intend to offend or question why you love the T2.
I just find it worth noting that things that one photographer finds essential and valuable are irrelevant or non-essential by another.
Ultimately you are doing the most important thing; getting out and taking photos. You have a camera with all the lenses you want and need. And last, but not least, your camera works and you are happy with the interface.

The same is true with B&W film. For some it's the only real photography and for others it's obsolete and limiting. I am grateful to live in a period in time where we have so many options in photography.

[Bassat]

There IS a lot to love....but since you asked, here's my irrelevant opinion which for you and millions of others are not issues relative to the pros of all film Rebels:

-Not weather sealed
-Pentamirror not pentaprism
-Pricey disposable batteries
-One control wheel instead of two
-Unreliable weak motor for bulk loaded film
-Shoots backwards, so numeric orientation on contact sheets are reversed

I don't mean to derail what is the point of B&W film? And I absolutely do not intend to offend or question why you love the T2.
I just find it worth noting that things that one photographer finds essential and valuable are irrelevant or non-essential by another.
Ultimately you are doing the most important thing; getting out and taking photos. You have a camera with all the lenses you want and need. And last, but not least, your camera works and you are happy with the interface.

The same is true with B&W film. For some it's the only real photography and for others it's obsolete and limiting. I am grateful to live in a period in time where we have so many options in photography.

I respect your opinion of Rebels, and agree with most of your 'digs' on them. The T2 (I have 2 of them, a K2, an Elan 7, Elan 7N) works for ME specifically because of what I shoot and how I shoot.


-not weather sealed- I don't take any of my gear into crappy environments.
-pentamirror vs. pentaprism- Shoot a vintage '40 folder if you want a crappy VF.
-pricey disposable batteries- If 2 CR2s or 2 123As last me 50 rolls of film, I'll get several years out of them. My T2 battery grip uses 4 Eneloops.
-One control wheel...- gotta give you that one, but pressing the +/- button is easier than reaching all over my 645N for controls

-weak motor...- I've never used bulk film
-shoots backwards...- I haven't made a contact sheet since 1974. Darkroom? Never again!

I know the T2 doesn't, and couldn't possibly, work for everyone. One more nice thing about it is that most of them were bought/used by complete amateurs. That means most of them are essentially 'unused'. I just bought a K2 (3000v) for $19 just because it came with a BP-220 battery grip that also works on the T2. I planned to sell the K2, but it pushes all my buttons, and works like new also. Where I come from, the camera is at least #3 on the list of necessities to get a good photo. #1 is behind the viewfinder, #2 is film. For what I do, an $800 Canon 1V is no better than my $19 K2.

Just to keep this relevant to the topic, as soon as I am done testing all my new film bodies/lenses with the color film I have on hand, I will buy some Tri-X and TMax and have a go at B&W film.

[Jonathan Mac]

There IS a lot to love....but since you asked, here's my irrelevant opinion which for you and millions of others are not issues relative to the pros of all film Rebels:

-Not weather sealed
-Pentamirror not pentaprism
-Pricey disposable batteries
-One control wheel instead of two
-Unreliable weak motor for bulk loaded film
-Shoots backwards, so numeric orientation on contact sheets are reversed

All of this is true but some cheap cameras are just cheap cr*p and some cheap cameras are cheap but loads of fun to use. My EOS 300 (two gens before the 300X) has given me the most fun I've had with a "modern" film SLR - it beats the pants off the Pentax MZ cameras and just keeps on kicking, no dodgy plastic gears that always break. And that's from someone who has a dislike of Canon cameras overall, not least due to their build quality.

I didn't know that bulk-loaded film puts more strain on the wind motor. Why is that?

I actually quite like the shooting backwards thing because when you've finished you don't need to wait to re-load. Another possible upside is that if the back were to open accidentally most of what you've already shot is safely in the film canister, so you'd only spoil the rest of the roll that hasn't been shot yet.

I know the T2 doesn't, and couldn't possibly, work for everyone. One more nice thing about it is that most of them were bought/used by complete amateurs.

My 300V (one gen before the 300X) that I bought in December and haven't used yet, arrived with it's strap still in the original plastic. I'm pretty sure the camera has never been used.

[Alex645]

I didn't know that bulk-loaded film puts more strain on the wind motor. Why is that?

a) When rolling your own film, the lack of manual precision with how well aligned you tape the film to the spool, how much tape and the thickness of it, or if you become over zealous and roll more than 36 exposures all demands more torque to pull the film vs. a perfect factory rolled film.
b) Metal snap caps are becoming more scarce compared to the all plastic reloadable cassettes. The plastic reel in plastic cassette has more friction when turned and depending on the ambient humidity, it can be problematic with weaker advance motors.

The other issue not related to the wind motor is the camera can be finicky without the DX coding on the cassette. Yes, you can set the ISO manually, but it seems confused initially if you forget to set it manually. Once loaded, it's wise to double check the ISO as cameras with DX sensors tend to use the default ISO 100 if it can't detect a DX code on the cassette.

Also the camera is more finicky on how well you cut the tongue. These last two points of course have nothing to do with the wind motor, but these are common problems my students encounter in the two assignments I give them that involves bulk loaded film. The Nikon N55 has the same issues.

[Bassat]

a)...
The other issue not related to the wind motor is the camera can be finicky without the DX coding on the cassette. Yes, you can set the ISO manually, but it seems confused initially if you forget to set it manually. Once loaded, it's wise to double check the ISO as cameras with DX sensors tend to use the default ISO 100 if it can't detect a DX code on the cassette.
...

Interesting. I've been shooting 35mm film cameras for 40+ years. I don't remember when automatic ISO coding first came out, but I do remember thinking, "Who would use that?" I suppose it would come in handy if: 1.) You trust it, completely. 2.) You always rate your film at box speed. I regularly change film speed in the middle of a roll. I want my camera choosing ISO about as much as I want my camera choosing aperture.


Perhaps I am the odd duck. When I first saw Microsoft Windows, I asked the same question. "Who would use that?"

[ChrisPlatt]

a) When rolling your own film, the lack of manual precision with how well aligned you tape the film to the spool, how much tape and the thickness of it, or if you become over zealous and roll more than 36 exposures all demands more torque to pull the film vs. a perfect factory rolled film.
b) Metal snap caps are becoming more scarce compared to the all plastic reloadable cassettes. The plastic reel in plastic cassette has more friction when turned and depending on the ambient humidity, it can be problematic with weaker advance motors.

Nothing can ruin a pleasant day's shooting like a jammed and inoperative camera out in the field,
especially when you don't have a backup body with you, and your changing bag is back at home.

I use electrical tape - the good stuff, Scotch Super 33+ from 3M - to attach the film end to the spool.
It stretches - at all temperatures - just enough to avoid those end-of-roll pitfalls, with or without motorized advance.
Since switching to this method I have experienced no more such failures with my bulk loaded film.

Further I recommend the use of only metal 135 film cassettes. They are definitely worth the extra expense.
Once you too have had the end of the plastic type come unscrewed - ruining your film - I think you'll agree.

Finally never try to load more than 36 frames (plus leader) into a standard 135 cassette!

Chris

[Alex645]

I don't remember when automatic ISO coding first came out, but I do remember thinking, "Who would use that?"

I use electrical tape - the good stuff, Scotch Super 33+ from 3M - to attach the film end to the spool.
It stretches - at all temperatures - just enough to avoid those end-of-roll pitfalls, with or without motorized advance.
Since switching to this method I have experienced no more such failures with my bulk loaded film.

DX coding came out in 1983. In '96, before the digital sensor format APS-C, there was a new film format introduced called APS-C (and the less common APS-H and APS-P). The most common complaints and problems of the masses was setting the correct ISO and loading/rewinding the film. APS was the designed to eliminate those problems.

Although I've never seen the DX sensor get the ISO wrong, I am with you that I feel it's another auto feature that I have to over ride because I typically do not set the ISO to the "box setting". For beginners without DX and inadvertently shoot at the completely wrong ISO intended, they also have the added "benefit" of learning to push or pull process and the pros and cons of that.

Thanks Chris for the 3M Super 33+ recommendation. Compared to many factory loaded film tapes, how does 33+ do in terms of static discharge light if the tape is pulled off too quickly? I have muscle memory for this, but was wondering for beginners.

[ChrisPlatt]

Another neat thing about Super 33+ is that it peels off easily leaving virtually no adhesive residue.
I have experienced no static "artifacts", but I too am in the habit of peeling off the tape slowly.

Chris

[StiffLegged]

I seem to remember using masking tape and merely tearing it off the film spindle when loading the developer tank. And whoever said to use metal film cassettes spoke the truth - I'd never reuse plastic crap ones. Just be sure to brush the felt light seal out before reloading.

[ChrisPlatt]

The reason I started using electrical tape is because it *doesn't* tear...

Chris

[ChristianRock]

LOL! We're going to give you 10 lashes with a camera strap, dip you in stop bath, and then leave you wallowing in fixer!

My photography teacher thought color was a cheap stunt for turning a crap photo into something passable (much like the fad of over-saturation).

Sure color may be important to some subject matter -- monochrome apples don't look as tasty as red ones -- but to a first approximation, the human visual system really is a high resolution black-and-white system overlaid with low-resolution color. It's the patterns of light and dark that we really notice and then some bits of the scene get splotches of color.

Thus, some argue that the B&W image really gets at the essence of the subject and the scene. It shows the relationships of the objects to the lighting. It brings out the structure, the textures, the tonalities of highlight and shadow without the glossy dross of color.

Ultimately, it's a personal preference. If B&W images don't speak to you, then maybe there's little reason that you want to speak in B&W.

I just wanted to bring this back. I think this comment is so spot on, so full of truth that it bears repeating one more time... you put into words things I've felt and could never quite explain in regards to color medium in general...

When I was a kid we had a black and white TV and I enjoyed watching it quite a bit. When we finally moved to a color TV in my teens, I distinctly remember how I could not see most of the detail that I was able to see in the black and white TV, and I kept wishing we had kept that instead (despite it being run by vacuum tubes that took like 2 minutes to warm up before you could watch anything...) The color images just didn't cut it for me, but eventually I got used to them.

I think that's what we do. We get used to color - and that only really happens if we stay mostly away from black and white film, which carries luminance and a sense of depth and detail more than digital can (IMHO).

Color, the way mostly all movies and pictures are made, basically kills the sense of luminance and the fine detail that black and white can carry.

In the last few years, despite mostly continuing to shoot color which I'm never quite happy with (hence my changes in PP constantly), I've been trying to capture that sense of luminance and detail in color film, but I'm starting to realize it just might not be possible... I might have to go back to black and white. Like my hero Clyde Butcher did, so successfully, after he was already established in the business...