[Jonathan Mac]

Hi everyone,

Until now I have always developed my B&W films with Ilfosol 3 and have been very happy with the results. The problem with it is storage - I sometimes go a long time between development sessions and the developer goes off. The bottle recommends using within one year of purchase, even if it's unopened.

So I want to look at using something else which will get me similar results but keep better. It has to be something I can easily get, keeps well, if a powder then able to mix small amounts to avoid long-term storage of solution, not too expensive., and be good for general use - suitable for films from 25 ISO up to 400 pushed to 1600, or the 3200 options at 1600, even if not necessarily the very best for those options.

Until now I've always bought in a shop here in Madrid but am willing to buy online within Spain, especially now. I have used this website (FOTO-R3 | Spain's full-source analog photo supplier) for films and they seem good, with developer options from Foma, Ilford, Kodak, Rollei, Tetenal and others. However, I have a few questions I'm hoping that knowledgeable people here can help me with.

From the options there are a few I've come across in forums and social media which might be good.

* Kodak T-Max
* Rodinal / R09 one shot
* Foma Fomadon R09
* Argenti Concertol

There are two products claiming to be Rodinal. One is marked as "R09 one shot" and the other just states "Rodinal". Neither seems to show a brand or manufacturer but one is available in 120ml and 500ml bottles, the other only 500ml. Fomadon also claims to be equivalent to Rodinal, not sure if that means it's the same but they don't have the rights to use the name or if it's actually a different formula.

Any feedback gratefully received.

[cpk]

The "real" Rodinal came in a plastic 500ml bottle and was labelled AGFAPHOTO RODINAL (red, white, and black label). I heard that it had been discontinued some years ago. It is reputed to last "forever" in its concentrated form and is used diluted as a one-shot developer in concentrations of 1+25 and 1+50 (other concentrations are possible). When I was worried about the disappearance of film and was buying and freezing large quantities of film, I bought out a camera store's entire stock of Rodinal. Then I went digital.

[gylfimag]

Rodinal was originally made by Agfa but after they went bankrupt the Agfa name and some of the product names and specifications have been licensed out. I think Adox has the right to the Rodinal name now and uses the same formula as was used when Agfa collapsed. Have never tried the Adox version or any other version except the original Agfa one - and that was a long time ago! (I used it a bit but found D-76/ID-11 to be more to my liking) I can though confirm that Rodinal concentrate keeps practically forever. The original formula is in the public domain and since the original version of Rodinal was produced in the 19th century all patents have long since expired. The formula was changed a bit over the years by Agfa but all versions are supposed to give similar results. Anybody should thus be able to produce a clone of this developer although the name is a registered trademark and can not be legally copied. You can even mix your own.

[Kobayashi.K]

Even if you buy powder it must be mixed up from the complete package, because the powder consists of various ingredients that could be mixed uneven when only part of the package is used. So in practice usually the minimum amount of developer you make from it is 1 litre.

Ilford also makes powder developers for B&W: ID-11, Perceptol, and Microphen (and perhaps more).
I use ID-11 as a universal developer, Perceptol for fine grain on HP5+, and Microphen as a fine grain speed enhancing developer on FP4+.

Edit: Perceptol has a capacity of 4 films / litre, for ID-11 and Microphen it is 10 films.

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Last edited by Kobayashi.K; 04-29-2020 at 07:39 AM.

[StiffLegged]

D-76 and ID-11 are essentially the same stew, but I wouldn’t leave either in solution a year or more. Rodinal might suit the bill better, but for such a range of use you might need another juice for pushing film.

[fehknt]

I've been buying d76 powder in larger quantities and mixing up just 1L stock at a time. Each 1L stock lasts a month or so in my normal usage (usually dilution 1+4), but I don't see why you couldn't just mix powder to dilute directly other than the time involved (assuming you have a gram-accurate kitchen scale -- the packets are conveniently labeled with net weight so I just measure based on % of weight = % of stock solution to end with).

[Kobayashi.K]

I've been buying d76 powder in larger quantities and mixing up just 1L stock at a time. Each 1L stock lasts a month or so in my normal usage (usually dilution 1+4), but I don't see why you couldn't just mix powder to dilute directly other than the time involved (assuming you have a gram-accurate kitchen scale -- the packets are conveniently labeled with net weight so I just measure based on % of weight = % of stock solution to end with).

The chemical ingredients in a package of powder are not evenly distributed, it is very difficult to achieve that (ask a chemical lab assistant). So, if you use 1/10th of the package and mix it up the resulting developer behaves inconsistent because the composition of chemicals may vary.

[niels hansen]

As mentioned by others, Rodinal lasts "forever" I dont know if Kodak hc110 does the same, but my hc 110 is now 4 years old and still going strong. Share it in 4 250 ml tight bottles. Look for informations on the net, eg Unofficial resource page for Hc 110. Rodinal is a bit sharper and a little more grainy than 110, but both are good if you know them well

[stevebrot]

I dont know if Kodak hc110 does the same

Pretty much...

The "Unofficial HC-110 Page" may be found at:

Kodak HC-110 Developer - Unofficial Resource Page


Steve

[centaure]

Hello:
My personal experience is similar because I develop a roll of film every two or three months and logically you find yourself with the problem of developer expiration.
The solution for me has been to use Rodinal. I bought a 500 cc bottle of Adox brand online two years ago and I just revealed a roll and like the first day.
There is a huge amount of literature on the web about Rodinal, so it is easy to get an idea of its characteristics

| Rodinal / Adonal

Google translator

Mi experiencia personal es similar pues revelo un carrete cada dos o tres meses y logicamente te encuentras con el problema de la caducidad del revelador.
La solución, para mi a sido utilizar Rodinal. Compré en la red una botella de 500 cc de la marca Adox, hace dos años y acabo de revelar un carrete y como el primer dia.
Hay enorme cantidad de literatura en la web sobre Rodinal, o sea que es fácil formarse una idea de sus características.
Saludos.

[StiffLegged]

As mentioned by others, Rodinal lasts "forever" I dont know if Kodak hc110 does the same, but my hc 110 is now 4 years old and still going strong. Share it in 4 250 ml tight bottles. Look for informations on the net, eg Unofficial resource page for Hc 110. Rodinal is a bit sharper and a little more grainy than 110, but both are good if you know them well

+1 There you go, a long-lasting developer suitable for push-processing: why I couldn't remember it I don't know, because it was well regarded back in the day. That with Rodinal for slow & medium-speed and you should be sorted.

[fehknt]

The chemical ingredients in a package of powder are not evenly distributed, it is very difficult to achieve that (ask a chemical lab assistant). So, if you use 1/10th of the package and mix it up the resulting developer behaves inconsistent because the composition of chemicals may vary.

While I'm sure that is fundamentally true, I haven't been able to tell using ~1/4 of a packet at a a time. Maybe it'd be more apparent with larger quantities or if I did more with test strips of film to check for accurately calibrated development.

All that said, sounds like the Rodinal is a better solution (no pun intended) here.

[Vendee]

Regarding the longevity of Rodinal, the original formula may have lasted forever but in my own experience, some of the newer incarnations do not.

Rodinal gone bad - PentaxForums.com

[Alex645]

Hi everyone,

Until now I have always developed my B&W films with Ilfosol 3 and have been very happy with the results. The problem with it is storage -
So I want to look at using something else which will get me similar results but keep better. It has to be something I can easily get, keeps well, if a powder then able to mix small amounts to avoid long-term storage of solution, not too expensive., and be good for general use - suitable for films from 25 ISO up to 400 pushed to 1600, or the 3200 options at 1600, even if not necessarily the very best for those options.

From the options there are a few I've come across in forums and social media which might be good.

* Kodak T-Max
* Rodinal / R09 one shot
* Foma Fomadon R09
* Argenti Concertol

The only developer on your list that I am familiar with is Kodak TMax and the last time I used it, it was a liquid stock, expensive, and optimized for TMax films....not a good general developer.

The closest in powder form that I know to Ilfosol 3 is Ilford Perceptol which in a powder package makes 1 liter batches that you could scale down for storage. But like Ilfosol 3, Perceptol is really designed for lower ISO films. Ilford Microphen (also 1 liter powder) is designed for higher ISO and push processing.

In my experience, the best overall powder general use film developer that handles the range of ISO, pushing, very fine grain, and high sharpness is Kodak XTOL. It comes in a part A & B to make 5L, but with a couple ziploc bag, you could always make smaller batches. If you want a 1 liter packet, then I'd go with Ilford ID-11.

If you really like Ilfosol 3, then the Ilford Perceptol makes the most sense.

I run a darkroom with high school photo students using all kinds of films, a range of ISO, and often pushing. After experimenting with many developers, I found Kodak XTOL as the ideal compromise. There are developers that are cheaper, easier to mix, finer grain or sharper, higher and lower contrast, faster to process, etc, but when I rated and ranked all the developers I had tried into a rubric of categories, the XTOL had the best overall score.

[Vendee]

I've tried a few developers but have settled for just 2 or 3. For slower speed films like Acros, FP4+ and my dwindling stock of APX100, I've found that Rodinal gives the best results for me. For 400 speed films I use D76/ID11 (same stuff, different manufacturer) but that doesn't keep longer than 6 months when mixed so I keep a bottle of HC110 in case I only need to develop one roll and don't want to waste a batch of D-76.

The only other developer I would use would be Ilford Microphen which gives good results if you are pushing Tri-x or HP5 to 1600 or higher.