[Lhorn]

I am near finishing a bulk roll of Kentmere 400 and want to try something else in 100 or 200 just to see the difference and for less grain. Kinda of decided on Fomapan and am intrigued by what is said in freestylephoto’s website about these films.
With regards to the 200, says it can be shot as iso 100-800 without changing development times.
They make similar claims about their 400 film.

I suspect Fomapan isnt some special product, but is such wide exposure latitude common? I’ve heard of people pushing film, but as I understand it, that means changing development times too. Is it possible to get good results shooting 200 film as 800 without changing development? Lastly, if 200 films can be shot as 100-800, can one really expect less grain from it?

Any thoughts on the cheaper bulk films are welcome. Seems like in that $55 and under range, it’s really just Kentmere, Ultrafine Extreme, Arista Edu and Fomapan.

Thanks

[Michail_P]

You can expect less grain, of course. But if you increase development you might get some very strong contrast. The +\- 1 stop does fine with almost any negative in reasonable light.
Grain is a characteristic of the emulsion. It’s not like digital noise. Grain is obvious even when the exposure is absolutely balanced (for instance a 3200asa roll). You shouldn’t see that much by pushing a slow film.
I’ve been watching the fomapan for some time and I might try it as well. It’s reasonably cheap.

[stevebrot]

With regards to the 200, says it can be shot as iso 100-800 without changing development times.
They make similar claims about their 400 film.

I suspect Fomapan isnt some special product, but is such wide exposure latitude common?

What it means is that box speed with normal development is understated such that test images will still show detail in the shadows comparable even if shot at a higher EI.

As for bargain films in general, they can be quite good, though good may be a matter of personal choice. Several years ago, Freestyle sold bulk and single rolls of something they called Legacy Pro 100. It was rebranded Fujifilm Acros 100 (original version) and was an amazing steal while it was available. I seem to remember 100' for about $38 USD.

R.I.P. Legacy Pro 100



Here are a few thoughts:

• Arista Edu Ultra 100 is Fomapan 100 and I believe the other Arista Edu films are also Foma
• My personal strategy has been to sample with single rolls and then find a source for the 100' bulk when I find an emulsion that works for me. I got my 100' roll of Rollei Retro 80s from Maco Direct (yes all the way from Germany).
• As far as price per roll...do the math if $100/100' seems too much. $100 divided by 19 36-exposure rolls (optimistic estimate) equals $5.26 per roll.
• Be prepared for your favorite film(s) to simply disappear and stock up appropriately.

BTW...I have never shot Fomapan 100 in 35mm, but my experience with roll film and 4x5 is that it build density quickly and benefits from a soft hand in agitation and dilute developer.


Steve

[stevebrot]

Grain is a characteristic of the emulsion. It’s not like digital noise.

So true! The film equivalent to digital noise is "fog". Fog presents differently, but has the same effect of quenching shadow detail.


Steve

[Lhorn]

$38 for 100 foot roll sounds great to me. One can see the creep of film price quite noticeably from one year to the next. $55 for current “cheap” offerings doesn’t seem like a great deal but in a few years when the going price is $75 I’ll be kicking myself for not having stocked up.

I’m still in the phase where my lack of skill, poor composition and exposure and unrefined development play the biggest roll in my end result, not the emulsion itself so I’m fine with playing around with cheaper films and when I have a special occasion will buy kodak or Ilford by the single roll.

I’m intrigued by a film that says it can be exposed from iso 100-800 without complicating development. I don’t think I’d push it to 800 but if I can shoot a 200 film as 400 (without changing development times) that’d be useful. In addition to the Pentax Slr I also play around with 16 mm and 110 cameras where they don’t necessarily have super fast lenses or, like the Minolta 16s where they are fixed focus, you want a tight aperture for maximum DOF. In those situations a 100 film would be pretty limiting I think, especially this time of year when the daylight is a bit short.

[pres589]

A 100' roll of Ultrafine Extreme would allow you to really nail development and exposure such that grain could be very well controlled. I really like that film stock when I've used it.

Now I'm sitting here thinking of pulling a stop from Ultrafine Extreme and how nice that might work...

[stevebrot]

I’m intrigued by a film that says it can be exposed from iso 100-800 without complicating development.

My practice with all films that are new to me is to establish a working exposure index (EI) with normal development using a test subject and bright indirect daylight. I bracket exposure +/- 3 stops from box speed and evaluate the negative directly with the rest of the roll devoted to general shooting. The test subject usually includes:

• Bright white swatch of fine-weave cotton fabric (not folded or lying flat)
• White terry washcloth (not folded or lying flat)
• Medium gray fleece garment
• Smooth surface object with medium tonal gradation
• Dark gray camera bag made of ballistic nylon
• Black plush toy
• Swatch of black velvet
• Printed 10-stop exposure wedge

Acceptable EIs are those that preserve detail in the washcloth and plush toy with all 10 tiles on the exposure wedge distinct from each other. Actual scans/prints from those frames should evaluate tonal rendering from the other objects.

Added: I strongly recommend either incident light or gray card metering when doing this test.


Steve

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Last edited by stevebrot; 12-18-2020 at 10:48 AM. Reason: Corrected glaring omission

[Breakfastographer]

$38 for 100 foot roll sounds great to me. One can see the creep of film price quite noticeably from one year to the next. $55 for current “cheap” offerings doesn’t seem like a great deal but in a few years when the going price is $75 I’ll be kicking myself for not having stocked up.

I’m still in the phase where my lack of skill, poor composition

Well, you have an opportunity now to keep your new solenoid clicking and work on that the "cheap" digital way.

[Viking42]

Lhorn -- a couple of comments about boosting speed of film in general, and increasing latitude....

If you want to get a bit of a speed boost out of any film, you can use a speed-increasing developer like Microphen or DDX, which will give you one-half to a full stop extra speed. This avoids the tonal changes you would get from a push development in a standard brew like ID-11/D76, which aren't always desirable (although some do pushing just for this reason). So you can use, say, HP5 at 600 or 800 with lovely tones, normal contrast, and reasonably fine grain just by using Microphen or DDX.

Conversely, if you want finer grain out of that 400 speed film, you can use a fine grain developer like Perceptol, which even if used diluted at 1+1 or 1+2, still gives significantly finer grain than ID-11. Using Perceptol will give you a speed loss of about one-half to one full stop -- or 200 to 300 ISO.

This brings me to compensating developers, of which dilute Perceptol is one such animal. These work by holding back development of the highlights while working on lifting shadow densities, giving you extra exposure latitude. Pretty neat, eh? This really works, and can turn a high-contrast scene with an inherently contrasty film into something totally doable. E.g. I shoot winter snow scenes in full sun with PanF developed in dilute Perceptol at 1+1, and get good shadow detail, no blown highlights, and gorgeous tones. Highly dilute Rodinal works this way too -- 1+50 or more.

So, bottom line, there may not be any need for you to play around with a 200 ISO film. Just stick with a good 400 film that you like and use different developers. You would be amazed at what a difference that can make to the look of a film.

Have fun!

Rgds,
Svend

[Lhorn]

So true. The K-70s capabilities are impressive to the point of being a bit overwhelming. Still want to keep plucking away a bit with film though and looking for something to ask of my wife for Christmas. 100 feet of film and a DA 18-135 would make me pretty happy on Christmas Day.

[Alex645]

Is it possible to get good results shooting 200 film as 800 without changing development? Lastly, if 200 films can be shot as 100-800, can one really expect less grain from it?

Kentmere 400 is an excellent film for you to have started with, as it is very forgiving in terms of exposure latitude.

With all negs, underexposure is much more problematic than overexposure and I suspect if Foma states that their 200 ISO film can be shot at EI 800 without changing development, the 'true' speed of the film is probably closer to 800 ISO (even greater exposure latitude than the Kentmere 400) and thus if shot at 200 ISO, you're effectively over exposing by two stops (and pull processing is more problematic than a dense negative).

In terms of grain, I believe the Foma shot at EI 800 will look very similar to the Kentmere 400 pushed one stop. Ultimately, your developer and developing process (temperature/agitation/dilution/age) will have a significant effect on the grain. There is a range of developers and they all have their strengths and weaknesses when it comes to grain, tonality/contrast, speed, and price.

[Lhorn]

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts. Once I am capable of getting consistent results with Rodinal I’d like to try other developers. Sounds like sticking with Kentmere wouldn’t be a bad idea. I still have a few rolls worth left though and will prob try the Fomapan. Either in 400 or 200 iso. Seems to get good reviews so I don’t of it as a gamble.

[Alex645]

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts. Once I am capable of getting consistent results with Rodinal I’d like to try other developers. Sounds like sticking with Kentmere wouldn’t be a bad idea. I still have a few rolls worth left though and will prob try the Fomapan. Either in 400 or 200 iso. Seems to get good reviews so I don’t of it as a gamble.

Kentmere is the least expensive black and white film that I've been satisfied with. Because I don't shoot as much as I used to, I don't compromise with my films and usually pay extra for 120 Ilford, Kodak, or Fujifilm.

Using the Kentmere as a baseline, you'll be better to appreciate different developers, but life is short and why not try Fomapan for your own experience.

[ShawnH]

Many years ago I used Fomapan 200. I thought that it had a beautiful tonal rendition. I don't think it is one that I would use at higher ISO's however,

[fs999]

Fomapans are very grainy...

If you really hate grain, use Rollei R80S or Adox CMS 20 or HR 50...