HP5

dr5chrome · 01-12-2021, 10:00 AM

Hello - Any HP5 users out there? Curious on experiences with using old outdated HP5.. Im talkin 7 years or older freezer stored. Regards.. dw

Password1234 · 01-12-2021, 11:08 AM

If stored in a freezer there should not be much deteriorating I believe. I really like hp5, it's really the BW film that I used the most, every time I load a fp4 I'm surprised how slow it is to shoot a 125iso ( one of the things digital made me forgot about).

Wojciech · 01-12-2021, 12:00 PM

Hi,

I don't know the exact chemical processes that happen during film aging (I can imagine for instance oxidation of the sensibilizers, recrystallization of the silver halide grains or diffusion of these components between the emulsion layers), but I would not really worry. As a rule of thumb, by decreasing the reaction temperature by 10 degrees Celsius, the rate of a chemical reaction (and of diffusion in solids) decreases by a factor of 2. So, if you go from room temperature (roughly 20 deg C) to freezer temperature (roughly -20 deg C) you will slow down the degradation processes in your film by a factor of 16. This means that, (in theory) if you store your film in a freezer you can forget about the expiry date that is printed on the box.
From my personal experience: I shot Ektachrome 100 film expired by 4-5 years that I stored in a fridge and the results were excellent.

Have fun with your HP5!

Wojciech

**cpk** · 01-12-2021, 12:19 PM - **1 Like**

There will be some fogging but the film should still be useable. See my posting #13 at

Ancient bulk lots of expired film... - PentaxForums.com

**Alex645** · 01-12-2021, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by dr5chrome

Hello - Any HP5 users out there? Curious on experiences with using old outdated HP5.. Im talkin 7 years or older freezer stored. Regards.. dw

What is the expiration date or dates on the HP5? Approximately when was it put into freezer storage? B&W doesn't suffer as much as color would, but you will have some amount of fogging that will reduce your contrast. The 7 year old film, if expired 5 years ago, should be almost as good as new, but film that expired more than 7 years ago will have some detectable loss of quality.

It's not so much that it's Ilford HP5+, but rather 400 ISO vs. <125 ISO emulsion.

Wojciech · 01-12-2021, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by cpk

There will be some fogging but the film should still be useable. See my posting #13 at

Ancient bulk lots of expired film... - PentaxForums.com

I was not aware of the effect of gamma radiation. Thanks for the reference!

dr5chrome · 01-12-2021, 02:07 PM

Thanks for the reply everyone! Was just wondering anyone else's experience. I pulled out an 810 box of HP5, deep frozen [-20] shortly after I bought the box in 2012. I thought there would be '0' issue with it so I used it as normal. To my shock, the film was badly age fogged.. The freeze didn't help save it. I have other B&W 810 films that I have tested out of the freeze... they are fine. Only the HP5 has been affected. ...Its heartbreaking! My favorite film. ..and now 180$ a box....dw

**cpk** · 01-12-2021, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Wojciech

I was not aware of the effect of gamma radiation.

Neither was I until I started using the film back in 2016.

---------- Post added 2021-01-12 at 04:35 PM ----------

Originally posted by dr5chrome

Only the HP5 has been affected.

Were all the HP5 films affected or only one? I've only tried one of my frozen HP5 films (maybe two) with no major issues. They were 35mm, not 120; I haven't tried the latter yet.

Wojciech · 01-12-2021, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by dr5chrome

...Its heartbreaking! My favorite film. ..and now 180$ a box....dw

Ouch. Sorry to hear that. Weird that fogging happened only to the HP5 and not to the other films. Perhaps something bad happened to this particular box on its way between the factory and your freezer (custom's X-ray?). If that behavior is, however, known for this film then I hope there will be some forum users that can confirm that.

**Alex645** · 01-13-2021, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by dr5chrome

I bought the box in 2012. To my shock, the film was badly age fogged.. The freeze didn't help save it. I have other B&W 810 films that I have tested out of the freeze... they are fine.

Originally posted by Wojciech

Perhaps something bad happened to this particular box on its way between the factory and your freezer (custom's X-ray?). If that behavior is, however, known for this film then I hope there will be some forum users that can confirm that.

You mention you bought the box in 2012. What is the expiration date on the film?

Too bad it's badly fogged. HP5+ is not especially known to age/fog rapidly, any faster than other 400 ISO B&W films and I, too, wonder if there isn't another explanation for the results you got.

**JensE** · 01-13-2021, 01:57 AM

Slightly off-topic, but an effect on expired film, which may ruin the ability to take any useable pictures at all, even if you're OK with lower speed and slight fogging ...

I had a curious effect apparently from the ink used for printing on the backing paper on well expired AGFA APX 100 (the original, expired 2003, not what's sold today under that name). The film was stored at room temperature but had only moderate amounts of fogging and speed was OK - I slightly overexposed it, but didn't care much as those were test shots for an old camera only. Numbers from the backing paper were showing in the pictures. On closer inspection, those numbers were from the next frame, i.e. wound up below on the film spool in storage. So the black ink used on the backing paper in close contact had an impact. I first thought of radiation from the ink, but the spots were actually less dense on the negative, where the printed numbers/marks were. I still don't have a good explanation. If this was a chemical effect, it would have to go through the film base and would likely have affected the current frame through the paper instead.

Would the white (in case of AGFA) backing paper maybe reflect some fogging radiation which the black backing print has absorbed?

Password1234 · 01-13-2021, 06:51 AM

Sorry to ear your film were damaged, I really believed keeping them in the freezer would avoid those kind of issues.

**Alex645** · 01-13-2021, 11:30 AM

Although background alpha radiation can be blocked by paper or cardboard, beta and gamma won't.

The metal cassettes on 35mm would have protection from at least beta particles, but your 8x10" sheet film in a box covered in plastic would have more of an aging fogging issue from both beta and gamma radiation.

Yes, the freezer is a metal box, but they (especially older units) do emit their own EMF (electro magnetic field) radiation and cumulatively over 8 years.

My advice for future storage is to recommend a lead X-ray bag.

**cpk** · 01-13-2021, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by Alex645

My advice for future storage is to recommend a lead X-ray bag.

An excellent point, but unfortunately a number of us are learning this too late. I probably have over 150 of mostly unusable rolls of TMAX 3200 and Delta 3200.

My tests of Tri-X and HP5 appear to be okay, some fogging but quite usable.

brianmquinn · 01-13-2021, 01:55 PM

An X-Ray bag will not work to block high energy radiation that fogs film. That is why Kodak was storing stuff in salt mines that were hundreds of feet deep.

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01-12-2021, 10:00 AM	#1
dr5chrome Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 53	HP5 Hello - Any HP5 users out there? Curious on experiences with using old outdated HP5.. Im talkin 7 years or older freezer stored. Regards.. dw

01-12-2021, 11:08 AM	#2
Password1234 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery Posts: 143	If stored in a freezer there should not be much deteriorating I believe. I really like hp5, it's really the BW film that I used the most, every time I load a fp4 I'm surprised how slow it is to shoot a 125iso ( one of the things digital made me forgot about).

01-12-2021, 12:00 PM	#3
Wojciech Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Photos: Gallery Posts: 36	Hi, I don't know the exact chemical processes that happen during film aging (I can imagine for instance oxidation of the sensibilizers, recrystallization of the silver halide grains or diffusion of these components between the emulsion layers), but I would not really worry. As a rule of thumb, by decreasing the reaction temperature by 10 degrees Celsius, the rate of a chemical reaction (and of diffusion in solids) decreases by a factor of 2. So, if you go from room temperature (roughly 20 deg C) to freezer temperature (roughly -20 deg C) you will slow down the degradation processes in your film by a factor of 16. This means that, (in theory) if you store your film in a freezer you can forget about the expiry date that is printed on the box. From my personal experience: I shot Ektachrome 100 film expired by 4-5 years that I stored in a fridge and the results were excellent. Have fun with your HP5! Wojciech

01-12-2021, 12:19 PM - 1 Like	#4
cpk Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Montreal Posts: 638	There will be some fogging but the film should still be useable. See my posting #13 at Ancient bulk lots of expired film... - PentaxForums.com

01-12-2021, 12:22 PM	#5
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,526	Originally posted by dr5chrome Hello - Any HP5 users out there? Curious on experiences with using old outdated HP5.. Im talkin 7 years or older freezer stored. Regards.. dw What is the expiration date or dates on the HP5? Approximately when was it put into freezer storage? B&W doesn't suffer as much as color would, but you will have some amount of fogging that will reduce your contrast. The 7 year old film, if expired 5 years ago, should be almost as good as new, but film that expired more than 7 years ago will have some detectable loss of quality. It's not so much that it's Ilford HP5+, but rather 400 ISO vs. <125 ISO emulsion.

01-12-2021, 12:35 PM	#6
Wojciech Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Photos: Gallery Posts: 36	Originally posted by cpk There will be some fogging but the film should still be useable. See my posting #13 at Ancient bulk lots of expired film... - PentaxForums.com I was not aware of the effect of gamma radiation. Thanks for the reference!

01-12-2021, 02:07 PM	#7
dr5chrome Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 53 Original Poster	Thanks for the reply everyone! Was just wondering anyone else's experience. I pulled out an 810 box of HP5, deep frozen [-20] shortly after I bought the box in 2012. I thought there would be '0' issue with it so I used it as normal. To my shock, the film was badly age fogged.. The freeze didn't help save it. I have other B&W 810 films that I have tested out of the freeze... they are fine. Only the HP5 has been affected. ...Its heartbreaking! My favorite film. ..and now 180$ a box....dw

01-12-2021, 02:16 PM	#8
cpk Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Montreal Posts: 638	Originally posted by Wojciech I was not aware of the effect of gamma radiation. Neither was I until I started using the film back in 2016. ---------- Post added 2021-01-12 at 04:35 PM ---------- Originally posted by dr5chrome Only the HP5 has been affected. Were all the HP5 films affected or only one? I've only tried one of my frozen HP5 films (maybe two) with no major issues. They were 35mm, not 120; I haven't tried the latter yet.

01-12-2021, 03:17 PM	#9
Wojciech Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Photos: Gallery Posts: 36	Originally posted by dr5chrome ...Its heartbreaking! My favorite film. ..and now 180$ a box....dw Ouch. Sorry to hear that. Weird that fogging happened only to the HP5 and not to the other films. Perhaps something bad happened to this particular box on its way between the factory and your freezer (custom's X-ray?). If that behavior is, however, known for this film then I hope there will be some forum users that can confirm that.

01-13-2021, 12:22 AM	#10
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,526	Originally posted by dr5chrome I bought the box in 2012. To my shock, the film was badly age fogged.. The freeze didn't help save it. I have other B&W 810 films that I have tested out of the freeze... they are fine. Originally posted by Wojciech Perhaps something bad happened to this particular box on its way between the factory and your freezer (custom's X-ray?). If that behavior is, however, known for this film then I hope there will be some forum users that can confirm that. You mention you bought the box in 2012. What is the expiration date on the film? Too bad it's badly fogged. HP5+ is not especially known to age/fog rapidly, any faster than other 400 ISO B&W films and I, too, wonder if there isn't another explanation for the results you got.

01-13-2021, 01:57 AM	#11
JensE Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Leipzig Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,969	Slightly off-topic, but an effect on expired film, which may ruin the ability to take any useable pictures at all, even if you're OK with lower speed and slight fogging ... I had a curious effect apparently from the ink used for printing on the backing paper on well expired AGFA APX 100 (the original, expired 2003, not what's sold today under that name). The film was stored at room temperature but had only moderate amounts of fogging and speed was OK - I slightly overexposed it, but didn't care much as those were test shots for an old camera only. Numbers from the backing paper were showing in the pictures. On closer inspection, those numbers were from the next frame, i.e. wound up below on the film spool in storage. So the black ink used on the backing paper in close contact had an impact. I first thought of radiation from the ink, but the spots were actually less dense on the negative, where the printed numbers/marks were. I still don't have a good explanation. If this was a chemical effect, it would have to go through the film base and would likely have affected the current frame through the paper instead. Would the white (in case of AGFA) backing paper maybe reflect some fogging radiation which the black backing print has absorbed?

01-13-2021, 06:51 AM	#12
Password1234 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery Posts: 143	Sorry to ear your film were damaged, I really believed keeping them in the freezer would avoid those kind of issues.

01-13-2021, 11:30 AM	#13
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,526	Although background alpha radiation can be blocked by paper or cardboard, beta and gamma won't. The metal cassettes on 35mm would have protection from at least beta particles, but your 8x10" sheet film in a box covered in plastic would have more of an aging fogging issue from both beta and gamma radiation. Yes, the freezer is a metal box, but they (especially older units) do emit their own EMF (electro magnetic field) radiation and cumulatively over 8 years. My advice for future storage is to recommend a lead X-ray bag.

01-13-2021, 12:58 PM	#14
cpk Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Montreal Posts: 638	Originally posted by Alex645 My advice for future storage is to recommend a lead X-ray bag. An excellent point, but unfortunately a number of us are learning this too late. I probably have over 150 of mostly unusable rolls of TMAX 3200 and Delta 3200. My tests of Tri-X and HP5 appear to be okay, some fogging but quite usable.

01-13-2021, 01:55 PM	#15
brianmquinn Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Cincinnati Photos: Gallery Posts: 79	An X-Ray bag will not work to block high energy radiation that fogs film. That is why Kodak was storing stuff in salt mines that were hundreds of feet deep.