Pentax K mount duplicators any good?

jimmypage · 05-04-2021, 09:22 AM

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Thinking about going this route. Should work with my DA 50mm f2.8. Spiratone also made an duplicator that was k mount compatible with an adapter.

**ramseybuckeye** · 05-04-2021, 12:03 PM

You probably need a lens with an aperture ring, I doubt you find a duplicator with a modern K mount.

**i_trax** · 05-04-2021, 01:37 PM

you can still buy them new
Buy PENTAX Film Duplicator (with Mount Holder 24x36), for ?999.00! | Ricoh Imaging EU
Pentax Film Duplicator 30100 | C.R. Kennedy
not sure about US

Please Note. I already reached my magic “6” for today, This is actually the meaningful conversation

Not a Number · 05-04-2021, 07:10 PM

Do you mean the slide holder? This is similar to the Spiratone slide duplicators. Be aware these are for full frame cameras so you won't get full frame coverage with a APS-C body without some modification.

PENTAX Slide Holder 1x, K reviews - Pentax Camera Accessory Review Database

jimmypage · 05-04-2021, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by Not a Number

Do you mean the slide holder? This is similar to the Spiratone slide duplicators. Be aware these are for full frame cameras so you won't get full frame coverage with a APS-C body without some modification.

PENTAX Slide Holder 1x, K reviews - Pentax Camera Accessory Review Database

Right I'm wondering what mods are required and whether it's worth the effort. Looks like you answered my question. Thanks.

So according to that review, a Pentax A 50mm 2.8 with .5x magnification fills half the screen. I'm be using the FA 50mm 2.8 with 1:1 magnification. Any reason this device wouldn't work straight out of the box? Seems it's within focusing range of the lens.

Not a Number · 05-04-2021, 07:51 PM

The problem is as you decrease magnification you need to move the object (slide/negative) further away from the lens. The duplicators were designed for 1:1 magnification or greater to allow limited cropping. They weren't designed for less than 1× or at least not enough to get full frame coverage on a crop body..

titrisol · 05-05-2021, 11:18 AM

Spiratone is a slide duplicating unit for 35mm (full frame) ; it will work in the K1 but not on the APSC cameras
I own one and the minimum magnification you can get is 1x and for APSC you need ~0.6

I guess you mean something like this one?

Macro Gadgetties

stevebrot · 05-06-2021, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by Not a Number

The problem is as you decrease magnification you need to move the object (slide/negative) further away from the lens. The duplicators were designed for 1:1 magnification or greater to allow limited cropping. They weren't designed for less than 1× or at least not enough to get full frame coverage on a crop body..

This...^ ^ ^

Even using bellows, reproduction less than 1:1 is a problem when doing film copy work. My Pentax Bellows K is able to manage FF negative to APS-C sensor, but probably not 6x6cm to APS-C or even FF.

Steve

**JimJohnson** · 05-08-2021, 06:04 PM

You CAN do a digitize a complete 24X36mm slide or negative with Pentax APS-C cameras. It is finicky to set up, but once you set up it up, it works just fine.

I figured it out 9 years ago with a little help using a K-r. and I've done it with my K-3 (MUCH better results) and I tweaked my setup a bit over time. Here is the link to my Pentax Forum post rom 2012:
how to - auto bellows slide copier K & dSLR

For what it is worth... one of the myriad reasons I recently purchased a K-1 was slide duplication should be less finicky to setup with a 1:1 image to sensor ratio. And I hear pixel shift makes a big difference also.

Lord Lucan · 05-11-2021, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by jimmypage

Spiratone also made an duplicator that was k mount compatible with an adapter.

Just about every slide duplicator I have ever seen, apart from those made by camera manufaturers themselves, use a T-mount - a screw mount which is (dangerously) almost identical to the old Pentax/Practica M42 mount but is not . So you then use a T-mount adaptor between the duplicator and your camera, such as this one. I expect that is what Spiratone use :

Quality T2 / T-mount Lens to PENTAX K / PK Camera Mount Adapter (fits K range) | eBay

titrisol · 05-12-2021, 07:16 AM

Getting the bellows to 0.67x (36x24 -> 24x16 )magnification is tricky but can be done; depending on the minimum extension of your bellows
Learn super macro photography cheaply using extension tubes

For 6x6 you'll need to get rid of the bellows and use a macro lens to ~0.4x (24mm/60mm) directly on camera
The 50 macro gets to 0.5x (1:2) so it should work fine without bellows in a copy stand
For me the biggest issue has been stray light, and ended up making a "pyramid" of thick black paper around the setup to keep light away

Originally posted by stevebrot

This...^ ^ ^

Even using bellows, reproduction less than 1:1 is a problem when doing film copy work. My Pentax Bellows K is able to manage FF negative to APS-C sensor, but probably not 6x6cm to APS-C or even FF.

Steve

Not a Number · 05-18-2021, 05:38 PM - **1 Like**

A pyramid made of black foam core poster board or spray painted flat black would be a sturdier option.

You could cut a hinged flap/hatch for access to the slide holder.

Lord Lucan · 06-06-2021, 05:40 AM

Originally posted by Not a Number

The problem is as you decrease magnification you need to move the object (slide/negative) further away from the lens. The duplicators were designed for 1:1 magnification or greater...

The reason why film era duplicators were not designed for anything less than 1:1 was not technical, but simply because no-one saw a need for it. I wonder though if any might have been made after APS film came along in the mid 90's - the film supposed to replace 35mm film but got blown away by digital instead.

By the time the first home computers and digital cameras came along, the fashion in amateur film photography had moved from slides to negative film for prints, and people digitised their prints with flat bed scanners. So there was little demand for "amateur" slide/neg duplicators, and what there was was met by adaptors or holders to put the slide on your flat bed scanner. The need to digitise the output from film cameras, whether slide or print, then dwindled away as people replaced their film cameras with digital ones. It is only a few enthusiasts like us who are wanting to digitise slides taken up to 60 years ago, so there is a dearth of equipment designed for the job other than very expensive pro lab gear like i_trax pointed out above.

Meanwhile I have bought a film era Jessop slide duplicator off Ebay and I am using it on my K-1 via a T2 to K mount adaptor. Here is a photo of my set up (poor picture quality - old digital P&S used) and a sample photo. In this I have a K-1 set at about ISO 400 and sync speed, and the flash is on a low manual power (GN-8 metres) and about half a metre from the dupllicator "window". I got the exposure right by trial and error with the camera ISO. The sample photo is from a slide taken by my father with a Minolta SR-T 101 on Afgacolor reversal film, around 1975. I have not edited it and it has a colour cast no doubt from ageing, which I could resolve in PP.

I have done a full review of the Jessop duplicator in the Accessories section. I believe it was also sold under the Aico brand.

05-04-2021, 09:22 AM	#1
jimmypage Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Chevy Chase, MD Photos: Albums Posts: 40	Pentax K mount duplicators any good? Staff note: This post may contain affiliate links, which means Pentax Forums may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. If you would like to support the forum directly, you may also make a donation here. Thinking about going this route. Should work with my DA 50mm f2.8. Spiratone also made an duplicator that was k mount compatible with an adapter.

05-04-2021, 07:31 PM	#5
jimmypage Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Chevy Chase, MD Photos: Albums Posts: 40 Original Poster	Originally posted by Not a Number Do you mean the slide holder? This is similar to the Spiratone slide duplicators. Be aware these are for full frame cameras so you won't get full frame coverage with a APS-C body without some modification. PENTAX Slide Holder 1x, K reviews - Pentax Camera Accessory Review Database Right I'm wondering what mods are required and whether it's worth the effort. Looks like you answered my question. Thanks. So according to that review, a Pentax A 50mm 2.8 with .5x magnification fills half the screen. I'm be using the FA 50mm 2.8 with 1:1 magnification. Any reason this device wouldn't work straight out of the box? Seems it's within focusing range of the lens. Last edited by jimmypage; 05-04-2021 at 07:40 PM.

05-12-2021, 07:16 AM	#11
titrisol Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: In the most populated state... state of denial Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,852	Getting the bellows to 0.67x (36x24 -> 24x16 )magnification is tricky but can be done; depending on the minimum extension of your bellows Learn super macro photography cheaply using extension tubes For 6x6 you'll need to get rid of the bellows and use a macro lens to ~0.4x (24mm/60mm) directly on camera The 50 macro gets to 0.5x (1:2) so it should work fine without bellows in a copy stand For me the biggest issue has been stray light, and ended up making a "pyramid" of thick black paper around the setup to keep light away Originally posted by stevebrot This...^ ^ ^ Even using bellows, reproduction less than 1:1 is a problem when doing film copy work. My Pentax Bellows K is able to manage FF negative to APS-C sensor, but probably not 6x6cm to APS-C or even FF. Steve Last edited by titrisol; 05-29-2021 at 04:36 AM.

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05-04-2021, 12:03 PM	#2
ramseybuckeye Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hampstead, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 17,292	You probably need a lens with an aperture ring, I doubt you find a duplicator with a modern K mount.

05-04-2021, 01:37 PM	#3
i_trax Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Perth Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,621	you can still buy them new Buy PENTAX Film Duplicator (with Mount Holder 24x36), for ?999.00! \| Ricoh Imaging EU Pentax Film Duplicator 30100 \| C.R. Kennedy not sure about US Please Note. I already reached my magic “6” for today, This is actually the meaningful conversation

05-04-2021, 07:10 PM	#4
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Do you mean the slide holder? This is similar to the Spiratone slide duplicators. Be aware these are for full frame cameras so you won't get full frame coverage with a APS-C body without some modification. PENTAX Slide Holder 1x, K reviews - Pentax Camera Accessory Review Database

05-04-2021, 07:51 PM	#6
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	The problem is as you decrease magnification you need to move the object (slide/negative) further away from the lens. The duplicators were designed for 1:1 magnification or greater to allow limited cropping. They weren't designed for less than 1× or at least not enough to get full frame coverage on a crop body..

05-05-2021, 11:18 AM	#7
titrisol Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: In the most populated state... state of denial Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,852	Spiratone is a slide duplicating unit for 35mm (full frame) ; it will work in the K1 but not on the APSC cameras I own one and the minimum magnification you can get is 1x and for APSC you need ~0.6 I guess you mean something like this one? Macro Gadgetties

05-06-2021, 10:38 AM	#8
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Not a Number The problem is as you decrease magnification you need to move the object (slide/negative) further away from the lens. The duplicators were designed for 1:1 magnification or greater to allow limited cropping. They weren't designed for less than 1× or at least not enough to get full frame coverage on a crop body.. This...^ ^ ^ Even using bellows, reproduction less than 1:1 is a problem when doing film copy work. My Pentax Bellows K is able to manage FF negative to APS-C sensor, but probably not 6x6cm to APS-C or even FF. Steve

05-08-2021, 06:04 PM	#9
JimJohnson Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Summer:Lake Superior - Michigan Winter:Texas Hill Country Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,772	You CAN do a digitize a complete 24X36mm slide or negative with Pentax APS-C cameras. It is finicky to set up, but once you set up it up, it works just fine. I figured it out 9 years ago with a little help using a K-r. and I've done it with my K-3 (MUCH better results) and I tweaked my setup a bit over time. Here is the link to my Pentax Forum post rom 2012: how to - auto bellows slide copier K & dSLR For what it is worth... one of the myriad reasons I recently purchased a K-1 was slide duplication should be less finicky to setup with a 1:1 image to sensor ratio. And I hear pixel shift makes a big difference also.

05-11-2021, 02:23 AM	#10
Lord Lucan Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: South Wales Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,963	Originally posted by jimmypage Spiratone also made an duplicator that was k mount compatible with an adapter. Just about every slide duplicator I have ever seen, apart from those made by camera manufaturers themselves, use a T-mount - a screw mount which is (dangerously) almost identical to the old Pentax/Practica M42 mount but is not . So you then use a T-mount adaptor between the duplicator and your camera, such as this one. I expect that is what Spiratone use : Quality T2 / T-mount Lens to PENTAX K / PK Camera Mount Adapter (fits K range) \| eBay

05-18-2021, 05:38 PM - 1 Like	#12
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	A pyramid made of black foam core poster board or spray painted flat black would be a sturdier option. You could cut a hinged flap/hatch for access to the slide holder.

06-06-2021, 05:40 AM	#13
Lord Lucan Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: South Wales Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,963	Originally posted by Not a Number The problem is as you decrease magnification you need to move the object (slide/negative) further away from the lens. The duplicators were designed for 1:1 magnification or greater... The reason why film era duplicators were not designed for anything less than 1:1 was not technical, but simply because no-one saw a need for it. I wonder though if any might have been made after APS film came along in the mid 90's - the film supposed to replace 35mm film but got blown away by digital instead. By the time the first home computers and digital cameras came along, the fashion in amateur film photography had moved from slides to negative film for prints, and people digitised their prints with flat bed scanners. So there was little demand for "amateur" slide/neg duplicators, and what there was was met by adaptors or holders to put the slide on your flat bed scanner. The need to digitise the output from film cameras, whether slide or print, then dwindled away as people replaced their film cameras with digital ones. It is only a few enthusiasts like us who are wanting to digitise slides taken up to 60 years ago, so there is a dearth of equipment designed for the job other than very expensive pro lab gear like i_trax pointed out above. Meanwhile I have bought a film era Jessop slide duplicator off Ebay and I am using it on my K-1 via a T2 to K mount adaptor. Here is a photo of my set up (poor picture quality - old digital P&S used) and a sample photo. In this I have a K-1 set at about ISO 400 and sync speed, and the flash is on a low manual power (GN-8 metres) and about half a metre from the dupllicator "window". I got the exposure right by trial and error with the camera ISO. The sample photo is from a slide taken by my father with a Minolta SR-T 101 on Afgacolor reversal film, around 1975. I have not edited it and it has a colour cast no doubt from ageing, which I could resolve in PP. I have done a full review of the Jessop duplicator in the Accessories section. I believe it was also sold under the Aico brand.