[joedonohoe22]

Hi all,

So, I've been developing my own black and white negatives at home for about 6 months now. It's been a steady process refining the process, but I'm at the stage now where I'm 90% happy with the results. The one problem that eludes me is a number of small particles on a number of my negatives (black on the negatives, white when inverted/corrected). See example below.

My developing process is as follows:

Ilford HP5 - 35mm

Developer
Kodak HC110 - Dilution B - 5 minutes. Syrup mixed with de-ironised water (I'm in the UK where distilled water is difficult to source). 10 seconds of soft inversions every minute

Stop
Ilford Stop (mixed with de-ironised water) - 20 seconds

Fixer
Ilford Fix (mixed with de-ironised) - 4 minutes

Wash with tap water, Ilford method - 5 minutes

Photo-Flo mixed with de-ironised water - 1 minute

Hang to dry in a bathroom that's recently been steamed out to tackle dust. When dry a few hours later I snip them as they're hanging up and place into Print File sleeves. Scanning with a Plustek 8100.

I'm really struggling to isolate the problem. I wash all my developing gear in warm soapy water with a soft sponge and leave to dry on a clean drying rack. Are tiny imperfections just a natural thing in film photography?

Any help would be hugely appreciated. I'm desperate, guys!

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[mir]

Hi,
It looks like dust particles. Do you remember to use a blower on you negatives as well as the glass on your scanner (perhaps even clean the glass)?
Is your lens clean or is it them same result you get from any of your lenses?

Regards Michael.

[StiffLegged]

Yes, looks like dust marks as Michael says and a dusting brush should always be used. I sometimes got dust spots when enlarging back in the day but a good dusting or blower brush usually got rid of the dust. However, instead of messing with Chinese ink and 0000 brushes like I had to occasionally, you have the option of digital retouching.

Good range of tones in that image, good job!

[Wheatfield]

Dust. It's the bane of film scanning.

[Kobayashi.K]

Before jumping to the conclusion this is dust, are these spots always the same size and shape?

Dust could emerge from the sponge shedding particles, when the film is dried in the bathroom and exposed to the airflow of a ventilator, or during transfer when cutting the film or mounting in the scanner. But I guess you would mostly see a slightly elongated shape of the spots and various sizes.

[ProfessorBuzz]

Compare 2 scans of different frames - and scan a grey card. Then you might be able to tell if it's a dust spec in the scanner or if it's on the neg.
If always the same spot, then suspect the scanner glass.

---------- Post added 01-07-22 at 01:32 PM ----------

PS I forgot to say that's a great shot - tones are excellent. Well done.

[UncleVanya]

Great shot indeed.

[Michail_P]

Nice exposure and development. That’s probably a dusty scanner glass issue, if as you said, the bathroom is clean while the film dries. It’s generally easy to get such particles on a strip, use a blower before scanning and clean the scanner glass with a wet—> dry cloth (with the suitable cleaning kit).

[joedonohoe22]

Thanks everyone for chiming I’m. Appreciate the warm words about the shot too! That’s my SMC-A 135mm F2.8 lens at work. A dream lens for portraits.

I suspected a scanning issue, so I did a 5x7 print in my darkroom earlier this evening. Having inspected the print, the spots are still there and appear in the same formation as what’s seen in the scanned image. My bathroom also doesn’t have any ventilators or anything that moves air, so the culprit must lie elsewhere...

(I also regularly use a rocket blower when scanning and printing.)

[UncleVanya]

This may give some ideas: Getting Dust free Negatives - Page 2

[Viking42]

Hi Joe,

Those may not be dust particles, as most environmental dust is fibres, and the spots on your neg are round or granular. I would expect that if it were environmental dust there would be fibres in there too. Have you looked at the negs with a magnifier or loupe? Are there actual particles on the surface of the film? If not, check the emulsion side and see if this might be in the emulsion, rather than a surface deposit.

If in the emulsion, then a possibility is that maybe the combo of HP5 in HC110 doesn’t play well with stop bath. I had a problem with FP4 in Rodinal, where I was getting weird mottled grain. Turns out that Rodinal has a higher pH than most other developers, and the pH shock when the developer-soaked film hit the acid stop actually affected the emulsion. I now use a water stop when developing in Rodinal - problem solved. I haven’t heard of this problem with HC110, but an easy test for you to try is run your next film through a water stop and see if the problem goes away.

OTOH, if there are indeed particles on the film surface, then the regular size and shape suggest water contamination. Do you have very hard water in your area? You mention using DI water for most solutions, but perhaps there’s residual mineral solids left behind from rinsing your tanks, reels and beakers?

Or it’s that sponge of yours, as Kobayashi.K suggested. The sponge could be shedding tiny microparticles. Not sure why you use that, as all photo chemicals are water soluble and just need a good rinse in warm water to clean off. No need for scrubbing! Again, check your negs with a loupe and see if there are particles on the surface - that will tell you a lot.

Hope this helps. Let us know if you find the problem.

[joedonohoe22]

Hi Joe,

Those may not be dust particles, as most environmental dust is fibres, and the spots on your neg are round or granular. I would expect that if it were environmental dust there would be fibres in there too. Have you looked at the negs with a magnifier or loupe? Are there actual particles on the surface of the film? If not, check the emulsion side and see if this might be in the emulsion, rather than a surface deposit.

If in the emulsion, then a possibility is that maybe the combo of HP5 in HC110 doesn’t play well with stop bath. I had a problem with FP4 in Rodinal, where I was getting weird mottled grain. Turns out that Rodinal has a higher pH than most other developers, and the pH shock when the developer-soaked film hit the acid stop actually affected the emulsion. I now use a water stop when developing in Rodinal - problem solved. I haven’t heard of this problem with HC110, but an easy test for you to try is run your next film through a water stop and see if the problem goes away.

OTOH, if there are indeed particles on the film surface, then the regular size and shape suggest water contamination. Do you have very hard water in your area? You mention using DI water for most solutions, but perhaps there’s residual mineral solids left behind from rinsing your tanks, reels and beakers?

Or it’s that sponge of yours, as Kobayashi.K suggested. The sponge could be shedding tiny microparticles. Not sure why you use that, as all photo chemicals are water soluble and just need a good rinse in warm water to clean off. No need for scrubbing! Again, check your negs with a loupe and see if there are particles on the surface - that will tell you a lot.

Hope this helps. Let us know if you find the problem.

Thanks for the advice, Viking42. I'll give the water stop a go and see how I get on. Fingers crossed.

[joedonohoe22]

Hi Joe,

Those may not be dust particles, as most environmental dust is fibres, and the spots on your neg are round or granular. I would expect that if it were environmental dust there would be fibres in there too. Have you looked at the negs with a magnifier or loupe? Are there actual particles on the surface of the film? If not, check the emulsion side and see if this might be in the emulsion, rather than a surface deposit.

If in the emulsion, then a possibility is that maybe the combo of HP5 in HC110 doesn’t play well with stop bath. I had a problem with FP4 in Rodinal, where I was getting weird mottled grain. Turns out that Rodinal has a higher pH than most other developers, and the pH shock when the developer-soaked film hit the acid stop actually affected the emulsion. I now use a water stop when developing in Rodinal - problem solved. I haven’t heard of this problem with HC110, but an easy test for you to try is run your next film through a water stop and see if the problem goes away.

OTOH, if there are indeed particles on the film surface, then the regular size and shape suggest water contamination. Do you have very hard water in your area? You mention using DI water for most solutions, but perhaps there’s residual mineral solids left behind from rinsing your tanks, reels and beakers?

Or it’s that sponge of yours, as Kobayashi.K suggested. The sponge could be shedding tiny microparticles. Not sure why you use that, as all photo chemicals are water soluble and just need a good rinse in warm water to clean off. No need for scrubbing! Again, check your negs with a loupe and see if there are particles on the surface - that will tell you a lot.

Hope this helps. Let us know if you find the problem.

So I conducted a test recently using a water bath to stop development instead of a traditional stop bath. Not much luck. As you can see with the four images, the problem still persists. The images show the same test shot in sequence with the number of white spots gradually increasing with each image. I've also contacted Ilford for help.

[Kobayashi.K]

Scientifically it is a good strategy to change one thing at the same time to find what is causing this, but it takes more time to get a hit and a lot of rolls.

Another strategy is to address all possible causes at once to get this quickly solved, and you don't need as much film. When the spots disappear you could gradually re-introduce parts of the original procedure for the next films to see when the spots show up again.

Did you already abandon the sponge and thoroughly rinsed the drum, the spiral and other things you 'cleaned' with it?

Another thing I thought about is contaminated bottles for the chemicals. When bottles are re-used for a long time sometimes a film of some sort is deposed on the inner wall. Perhaps this stuff could flake off at some moment.

Also, a contamination can be transferred from one place to another. For example when the source is in the chemicals, they are used in the drum (appearing on the film), but the drum itself will become contaminated too.

When you are reusing chemicals, for example by pouring back the fixer, the particles don't disappear until the fixer is replaced by a new stock.

I also know the answer from Ilford in advance (if you get one). They will say there are many possible causes they can't review. So the only thing they can advise is to replace the chemicals and the bottles for storing the work solutions.

p.s. Sorry this post is edited a few times.

[Viking42]

Did you already abandon the sponge and thoroughly rinsed the drum, the spiral and other things you 'cleaned' with it?

Another thing I thought about is contaminated bottles for the chemicals. When bottles are re-used for a long time sometimes a film of some sort is deposed on the inner wall. Perhaps this stuff could flake off at some moment.

+1

That big spot to the left of the lamp in the first image looks suspiciously like a chunk of sponge

Seriously, it would really help to know if you're finding particles on the surface of the film, or whether this is somehow in the emulsion (unlikely). Since this is a test roll, have you tried brushing or gently wiping these bits off with a fingertip or fingernail? Have you looked at the film through a magnifier or loupe to get a closer look? That would tell a lot.

Which also leads me to ask - have you ruled out the scanner? Are the particles actually on the film? Again, please look closely with a loupe.

I agree with the above about contaminated bottles. Fixer bottles are particularly susceptible to deposits if old fixer is allowed to sit for months and months. The inside of the bottle will turn black, and little bits do come off when you reuse them for a new batch. This is why I don't use those opaque accordion bottles - only clear plastic pop or sparkling water bottles. Once they're dirty they go into the recycle bin.

In any case it certainly doesn't look like environmental household dust, as there would be fibres there. This seems to be something from the tank, bottles, or water that you're using.