[peptheyep]

Hi everyone. I would like to ask you a couple of questions about film development.

I am totally new to it, and I'm pretty confused about what kind of chemicals I should choose (I am interested in B&W film photography). I already read how the liquid ones would make my life a bit easier rather than paying attention to carefully dilute the powder ones, but I don't really see it as a problem. Apart from this, do you have a preference between them? Is there a sensible difference in how I should store them? Using powder chems would let me have much more uses per pack as compared to liquid ones at a similar price?

As per title, the second question regards which brand would be the best for what concerns quality/price. In particular, I am particularly interested in the prices Foma.cz has for its line of products, from film rolls to chemicals. What is your experience with these products? Do you know about cheaper o similar alternatives?
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I have a couple more questions, sorry

1. Do you know if there is a comprehensive guide for film developing here on this blog I could check out?

2. I have a couple of m42 lenses (coupled with a Petri and a Zenit bodies), other than the film era lenses I use with my digital Pentax, so my question is: If I wanted to buy a film era Pentax body, would it be fine to buy a m42 body, or would it be better to choose a K mount one? I'm not really interested in having automatic settings or TTL, so I wouldn't care much about getting the most advanced and expensive bodies from that era.

If you got here at the end of my post, then thanks for your patience.

[ProfessorBuzz]

Before diving in, you might want to check out Ilford's blogs on film processing. Here's a good start:
Beginners Guide to Processing Film - Ilford Photo%
Think about how much chemical you will need to process your film - that may determine what's more economic. For example, some film developers wont keep longer than 2-4 weeks, whereas stop bath will keep for ages.
Small quantities are a good place to start. I prefer dry chemicals, easier to store, less headache, and you can measure it out and mix what you need, and it generally won't go bad.

Buy a K-mount. They will be newer and more reliable. You can get an adapter to go from M42x1.0 to K mount.

Have fun. Prepare to make mistakes, that's how you'll learn.

[peptheyep]

Before diving in, you might want to check out Ilford's blogs on film processing. Here's a good start:
Beginners Guide to Processing Film - Ilford Photo%

Thanks for your reply. The guide you linked seems comprehensive of what I need, this is what I needed.

Think about how much chemical you will need to process your film - that may determine what's more economic. For example, some film developers wont keep longer than 2-4 weeks, whereas stop bath will keep for ages.
Small quantities are a good place to start. I prefer dry chemicals, easier to store, less headache, and you can measure it out and mix what you need, and it generally won't go bad.

I was not considering this. I am not planning on shoot a lot of rolls, at the beginning, so I guess it could be fine to buy smaller amounts of developers for trying everything out, while purchasing a larger amount of fixer in order to use it both now and later, for rolls I could plan to develop in the future.

Buy a K-mount. They will be newer and more reliable. You can get an adapter to go from M42x1.0 to K mount.

Have fun. Prepare to make mistakes, that's how you'll learn.

You made a valid point.

I am sure I will be happy to make them! Thanks again!

[pres589]

The cheapest products are the ones that are cheapest, not from a specific brand. Find the retailers that ship cheap or free in your part of the world (including the shops you can go to physically) and see what they've got. Foma 100 and 400 speed black and white films do seem to be consistently on the low end of the price scale but there may be other things that pop up now and then. Pricing for chemicals is the same deal, like anything, and I don't know how cost effective Foma chemicals are. I would a bottle of one of the Rodinal copies is probably going to be your cheapest option.

But there's more to this than cost. You have to like the look of the end product once you're out of the early learning phases. And I've never been that excited by images that came from Rodinal developed negatives, as a general rule, and Foma 400 developed in Rodinal always looked kind of blown out and lacking in detail. And not in a cool way either.

I think if you learn the cameras and lenses you have, you'll make better decisions about what kind of system to get really serious about, and select a body with a better idea of what you want and what you're getting. The nice thing about m42 glass is that it's adoptable to almost any other system's mount.

[Cerebum]

Welcome to the rabbit hole we are tumbling down I have used ID-11 (powder) HC110, Rodinal (liquid Chem) and caffeinol (yup, its coffee ). All are really easy to use with great results. The problem is ID-11 goes off whereas HC110 and rodinal last for years. Hc110 is a nice, low grain developer whereas rodinal is very sharp if a bit grainy. Both these developers are produced by different companies so it is possible to get smaller bottles, allowing you to play. 250ml will do 25+ rolls the massive dev chart is the go to place for recipes, and if you download the app it has a timer which walks you through the whole process.

Re caffeinol, its a mixture of cheap and nasty coffee, washing soda, vitamin c powder and bromide/iodized salt that smells like a fish tank, but develops film chemical free. Instructions and background can be found in a free PDF called The Caffenol Cookbook

[Alex645]

Apart from this, do you have a preference between them? Is there a sensible difference in how I should store them?

As per title, the second question regards which brand would be the best for what concerns quality/price. In particular, I am particularly interested in the prices Foma.cz has for its line of products, from film rolls to chemicals.

1. Do you know if there is a comprehensive guide for film developing here on this blog I could check out?

2. I have a couple of m42 lenses (coupled with a Petri and a Zenit bodies), other than the film era lenses I use with my digital Pentax, so my question is: If I wanted to buy a film era Pentax body, would it be fine to buy a m42 body, or would it be better to choose a K mount one?

a) Essentially liquid is more convenient but powders store better and are a better value. Storage of liquid is ideally in a cool place out of the sun and with as little contact with air in the bottle as possible.

b) Prices vary depending on what region of the planet you live in. For film, Foma and Kentmere are among the least expensive and for chems, Foma and Arista. Although most of these films and chems are completely cross compatible, each brand formulates their chems to be optimized with their films. So using Foma film with Foma chems makes sense. I can and am willing to spend a bit more and prefer Ilford, as their products IMO are consistently higher quality. For someone starting out, I'd recommend getting the most affordable options, and then eventually experiment with other options later.

c) The Massive Dev Chart online is comprehensive. It's the best. Massive Dev Chart Film Development, Film Developing Database

d) Given what you stated about your needs, an M42 Pentax body makes the most sense. The only disadvantage (as you weren't interested in auto functions) is the speed of switching lenses.

[peptheyep]

The cheapest products are the ones that are cheapest, not from a specific brand. Find the retailers that ship cheap or free in your part of the world (including the shops you can go to physically) and see what they've got. Foma 100 and 400 speed black and white films do seem to be consistently on the low end of the price scale but there may be other things that pop up now and then. Pricing for chemicals is the same deal, like anything, and I don't know how cost effective Foma chemicals are. I would a bottle of one of the Rodinal copies is probably going to be your cheapest option.

But there's more to this than cost. You have to like the look of the end product once you're out of the early learning phases. And I've never been that excited by images that came from Rodinal developed negatives, as a general rule, and Foma 400 developed in Rodinal always looked kind of blown out and lacking in detail. And not in a cool way either.

I think if you learn the cameras and lenses you have, you'll make better decisions about what kind of system to get really serious about, and select a body with a better idea of what you want and what you're getting. The nice thing about m42 glass is that it's adoptable to almost any other system's mount.

Thanks. Being my first times, I am looking for the cheapest options for building up the right experiences in the processes behind film development. Then yes, after this "training" time, I will surely look into more refined results, starting from the type of film to the chemicals involved in the process. At this point, I think I will try with Foma products all along the line and see how things go.

---------- Post added 07-27-22 at 01:21 PM ----------

Welcome to the rabbit hole we are tumbling down I have used ID-11 (powder) HC110, Rodinal (liquid Chem) and caffeinol (yup, its coffee ). All are really easy to use with great results. The problem is ID-11 goes off whereas HC110 and rodinal last for years. Hc110 is a nice, low grain developer whereas rodinal is very sharp if a bit grainy. Both these developers are produced by different companies so it is possible to get smaller bottles, allowing you to play. 250ml will do 25+ rolls the massive dev chart is the go to place for recipes, and if you download the app it has a timer which walks you through the whole process.

Re caffeinol, its a mixture of cheap and nasty coffee, washing soda, vitamin c powder and bromide/iodized salt that smells like a fish tank, but develops film chemical free. Instructions and background can be found in a free PDF called The Caffenol Cookbook

Thanks for the feedback on these products. Maybe, in the future, I will try caffenol development, it seems really interesting to get these kind of results thanks to everyday ingredients.

---------- Post added 07-27-22 at 01:25 PM ----------

a) Essentially liquid is more convenient but powders store better and are a better value. Storage of liquid is ideally in a cool place out of the sun and with as little contact with air in the bottle as possible.

b) Prices vary depending on what region of the planet you live in. For film, Foma and Kentmere are among the least expensive and for chems, Foma and Arista. Although most of these films and chems are completely cross compatible, each brand formulates their chems to be optimized with their films. So using Foma film with Foma chems makes sense. I can and am willing to spend a bit more and prefer Ilford, as their products IMO are consistently higher quality. For someone starting out, I'd recommend getting the most affordable options, and then eventually experiment with other options later.

c) The Massive Dev Chart online is comprehensive. It's the best. Massive Dev Chart Film Development, Film Developing Database

d) Given what you stated about your needs, an M42 Pentax body makes the most sense. The only disadvantage (as you weren't interested in auto functions) is the speed of switching lenses.

Thank you for your comment and for the useful link, I will surely look for any info about the products I am going to buy. I will probably go for powder chems, I like the fact that I can store them more easily.

---------- Post added 07-27-22 at 01:31 PM ----------

One last question for you all: how does it work for bulk film? I checked Foma films and 17 meters of film come for a really good price (25 euros without shipment). I saw that both empty film cartridges and reloading machines are sold, but are the latter needed for reloading these cartdirges? Is there a way to load them manually?

[pres589]

I personally wouldn't bother loading from a bulk roll until I had some film handling time under my belt. I've also not gone this way myself but I've considered it for the same reason. And I don't want to think about trying to load by hand, without any sort of machine to assist me, in the dark.

[peptheyep]

I personally wouldn't bother loading from a bulk roll until I had some film handling time under my belt. I've also not gone this way myself but I've considered it for the same reason. And I don't want to think about trying to load by hand, without any sort of machine to assist me, in the dark.

I see your point. Personally, My first real, serious experience with photography was with my Zenit 122, and it really helped me develop consciousness about ISO, aperture and shutter time like no digital camera could. I shot on color film and made it developed by a studio. Then I bought my Pentax K-70 and here we are, after a couple years of using it and a digital compact Canon camera, back to film again. So, I understand your point, but to me using bulk film looks like a little, new, interesting challenge.

[Cerebum]

If you intend to keep shooting film, bulk loading is excellent, but only if you can get a good deal on film. I have four! One with foma200 (a brilliant and inexpensive film, best shot at 125 and developed as if it was shot at 200) one will have ilford XP2, 400, when it arrives, one has some very expired ilford FP4 and one with 17m of equally expired Orwo NP27. The initial outlay for a bulk loader and bulk film is quite high but it pays for itself over time. A 17m roll will give you about 10 rolls of 36 exposures which means you are paying €2.50 per roll. You can also make up short rolls of say ten exposures if you want to test a camera or a developer. The problem is bulk film is getting expensive. Ilford are charging €110 for a 30m roll which works out at €5.50 per roll. Not much of a saving. Rollei films can be bought for a lot less so it still makes sense but be sure you are going to stick with film before you buy a bulk loader. The way they work is
1) load the bulk film into a loader in a darkroom or dark bag.
2) once loaded you can load your individual spools in daylight. For this you can either buy reloadable canisters or you can reuse film canisters provided there is a bit of film sticking out
3) when the film is in the loader, a small piece is accessible, normally under a flap. You fasten the film to the spool or protruding bit of film in a canister, place it in the loader, close the lids then you can wind as much film into the canister as you want.
4) once loaded, open the loader and cut the film. Cut a leader and go out and shoot.

There are plenty of YouTube videos demonstrating the process.

If you think you may be bulk loading it may be worth saving canisters. When you load your film onto your developing spool (in your dark bag or dark room) rather than cracking the top off and ruining the canister, think about loading it on to the spool directly from the canister. Once it is on the developing spool cut the film with scissors about 3cm from the canister. You will then have something to attach the new film to, should you get a bulk loader. Good luck

[Alex645]

One last question for you all: how does it work for bulk film? Is there a way to load them manually?

Bulk loading is by far less expensive in the long run. The down sides include:
a) The initial cost of buying the bulk loader, empty cassettes, and possibly a change bag.
b) Every roll makes you committed to that one type of film for about 24 rolls of 24 exposures.
c) You are more likely to make a mistake loading the film than a factory.
d) Most labs will not develop bulk loaded film; assume you will be developing anything bulk loaded.
e) Your negs will not be numbered the usual 0 or 1 thru 24 or 36, etc. They will have the usual edge numbers, but your first shot could be anything between 0 and 40.

You will need scissors, tape, and a light proof room:
a) Lloyd's bulk loader:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1313619-REG/legacy_pro_63000_lloyd_35...981&

b) Reloadable 35mm film cassettes (lately the quality control on many have been poor....the felt light traps are flimsy).
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/220458-REG/Kaiser_204127_35mm_Reloada...981&

c) A changing bag if you don't have a light proof room. This is only used when initially putting the bulk film into the loader; not when loading the individual cassettes.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/70983-REG/Kalt_NP10102_Large_Changing...981&

As a beginner, I agree with others that suggest you should wait on bulk loading. There are enough things that can go wrong in the beginning as you learn, that you do not want to compound it with this extra potential. Once you "master" the other steps, and if you really like that film, then it makes sense to invest in bulk loading.

[Cerebum]

@Alex645 looks like we were essay writing at the same time lolol

[jersey]

- I am Rodinal fan (I use Fomadon R09 - Rodinol). Concentrated liquid and very long lasting. Put it into fridge and it will last years.

- FOMA - I have a LOT experience with them and generaly I like them. I was using them for 30+ years, from communistic times till now. They are pretty solid, good quality and films have their characteristic. If you want "perfect" film when it comes to results, quality etc then I would look at Kodak, but Fomapan is nice film. And it is hard to beat when it comes to price. Their chemicals are in same class, solid but nothing wonderful

- bulk film... it has sens when you shot a lot or you are really tight on money. Otherwise it is more or less waste of time. If you really, really want it then either buy machine or use ortochromatic film. It is not sensitive to red light so you can load by hand with red safety light


- Stay with M42. First you will have something different as second as you already have lenses it is easier to simply get some M42 body. Longevity is not an issue - get one that is as old as possible, just check first what is wrong with it. Some things are easy to handle, others are not. And if you do not shy away from using handheld light meter you can get some very nice cameras. I still have camera made in early 60s and it is perfectly usable

[brofkand]

I loved Foma's products when I shot film.

As far as chemistry, the most important thing is to stick with one right now. One developer, one stop bath, one fixer, one rinse aid, etc. As you are learning mistakes will be made and too many variables will make it impossible to find out where you've gone wrong.

Generally, powder chemistry is more economical. But some liquid concentrates like HC-110 are very economical as well. Kodak HC-110 Developer - Unofficial Resource Page

As far as bulk film I don't think it's really worth it anymore.

[Alex645]

As far as bulk film I don't think it's really worth it anymore.

100' roll vs. 24 exposure rolls (based on BHphotovideo prices today). I can always get at least 27 rolls of 24 exposures from a 100 foot roll. If you normally shoot 36 exposures, the savings is less, but less is less.

Arista 100, 200, or 400: $64 vs. $5.29/24 exp. roll ($143 equivalent)
Fomapan 400: $70 vs $6/24 exp. ($162 equivalent)
Kentmere 400: $72 vs. $5.29/24 exp. ($143 equivalent)
Ilford HP5+: $90 vs. $7/24 exp. ($189 equivalent)
Kodak Tri-X: $150 vs. $8.49/24 exp. ($229 equivalent)

So in terms of cost, it is a considerable savings. But as I mentioned earlier, there are cons.