[Alex645]

I have been using Kodak X-TOL for more than 20 years. Before I used D-76, but found X-TOL a notch above in terms of grain, with speed and price a consideration as well.

On my last three batches, with 80°F water, I could not completely dissolve the powder no matter how long I tried. There were still more specks of undissolved Part A no matter how long I continued to mix it.

After mixing the rest with Part B and the additional water to make 5 liters, I found the developer so weak, I had to use it straight to get results that I normally would see with a 1:1 dilution.

The packaging is dated for what I presume as expiration for Feb. 2023 and in fine print says Made in Germany.

Question #1: Has anyone else encountered this issue recently?

I teach B&W film photography to about 20-60 students per year. I am seriously considering switching to another developer that is more reliable. We typically develop a range of films including Kodak Tri-X and TMax, Ilford Pan F, HP5+, and Delta, and sometimes Kentmere and Arista. We also push process.

Question #2: Any recommendations for a replacement developer? My local supplier carries D76 (potential same Kodak issues as X-TOL?), HC-110, Rodinal, TMax, Ilford ID-11 and DDX.

HC-110 seems viable if I can get students (ages 13-17) to consistently prep the working solution 1:63. Using a stock solution that keeps for a semester at 1:1 dilution helps reduce mistakes.

[Not a Number]

Has anything changed with your water supply? Are you using water straight from the tap? Could the state or municipality have started adding fluoridation?

When the water supply here started be fluoridated a lot of things were affected. I got a Reverse Osmosis filter and it made a big difference.

Try making a batch with distilled water.

[JohnMc]

Maybe bump the (mixing) temp up 5°. Using a consistent and better quality water is important. If you run a dehumidifier they are a great source -good and cheap so long as the system is clean. Another thing that can be done with city tap is to let it breath for for a day or three before using and letting the volatiles (chlorine) flash off (fluoride is not readily removed w/o RO).

[Viking42]

I will second the recommendation to use distilled water to mix. At C$6.00 for a 5 gallon jug, it's cheap enough not to matter. I use this with all my powder developers now, including Xtol, as my area has very hard water with lots of dissolved calcium carbonate (lime) and iron. I believe Xtol is particularly susceptible to water impurities, but I have only heard this in relation to longevity of the stock solution.... not sure about mixing problems.

For an alternative all-purpose developer, it's hard to go wrong with D-76. It may give slightly coarser grain than Xtol, but it has really great tonality - lots of guts and punchy tones, esp. if used at 1+1 dilution (one-shot development). Works great with all the films you listed. In fact, being the world's most popular developer, film manufacturers work to ensure that their films will look good in D76. FYI, Ilford ID-11 is effectively the same thing as D76.

I wouldn't recommend Rodinal for the higher speed films - TriX and HP5 - as the grain will be really harsh. Also, Rodinal needs very gentle agitation to tame the contrast, so that's a deviation from typical Ilford or Kodak agitation regimens. It can be a tricky beast for students to master, so maybe not the best choice for learners.

Hope this helps.

[Alex645]

Has anything changed with your water supply? Are you using water straight from the tap? Could the state or municipality have started adding fluoridation?

When the water supply here started be fluoridated a lot of things were affected. I got a Reverse Osmosis filter and it made a big difference.

Try making a batch with distilled water.

That's interesting, and the water is from the tap but:
a) My state does fluoridate the water.
b) Our school actually has its own water source, a spring and aquifer, and the only thing added may be chlorine in the water tank. As it's the source for mostly children K-12 and teachers, the quality is highly monitored.
c) Yes, we do use filters and compared to when I used municipal water in California, there is very little sediment. I replace filters once a year, and they are still fairly clean.

Next time I make a batch of stock, I will try using distilled water to eliminate that as a possible cause.

---------- Post added 10-19-22 at 01:33 PM ----------

Maybe bump the (mixing) temp up 5°. Using a consistent and better quality water is important. If you run a dehumidifier they are a great source -good and cheap so long as the system is clean. Another thing that can be done with city tap is to let it breath for for a day or three before using and letting the volatiles (chlorine) flash off (fluoride is not readily removed w/o RO).

If this was a one-off problem, I would suspect the water, but it's been going on now for over a year with the last three batches of stock. Also, I know the taste and smell of chlorine and relative to municipal water, our private spring aquifer water is good enough to be bottled as is.

Because Kodak suggests 64-80°F, I fear going over 80° may cause other side effects. I have been mixing them at 80°.

[tuco]

If you are happy with XTOL, test out another purchase of it from someone else to maybe avoid the same bad batch of it. It sounds like you have only experienced this one bad package so far.

[disconnekt]

Here's one thread on another photo forum of a couple people having similiar issues back in 2020, (probably more if you dig around on there): https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/bad-xtol.177020/

[ChrisPlatt]

I too recommend using distilled water to mix your developer.

Chris

[Alex645]

Here's one thread on another photo forum of a couple people having similiar issues back in 2020, (probably more if you dig around on there): https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/bad-xtol.177020/

Yes, what I read in the thread is exactly what I'm dealing with. In the past when you mix X-TOL, Part A turns orange (with no particles) and then when you add Part B, it momentarily turns purple and then clear.

It's as if they changed the chems without changing the name or giving any notice. And with every developer I've worked with, the potency is strongest when fresh, and then slowly fades. With X-TOL it's almost as if it gains potency with age. We're not talking about wine....or are we?

Right now, leaning toward switching to D-76, but I still have some X-TOL powder A+B left and will try the distilled water before giving up.

---------- Post added 10-19-22 at 04:46 PM ----------

If you are happy with XTOL, test out another purchase of it from someone else to maybe avoid the same bad batch of it. It sounds like you have only experienced this one bad package so far.

Actually not the same batch and I've been talking locally to other X-TOL users and they've encountered this problem too. I fear Kodak went from the gold standard to pyrite.

[JohnMc]

That's interesting, and the water is from the tap but:
a) My state does fluoridate the water.
b) Our school actually has its own water source, a spring and aquifer, and the only thing added may be chlorine in the water tank. As it's the source for mostly children K-12 and teachers, the quality is highly monitored.
c) Yes, we do use filters and compared to when I used municipal water in California, there is very little sediment. I replace filters once a year, and they are still fairly clean.

Next time I make a batch of stock, I will try using distilled water to eliminate that as a possible cause.

---------- Post added 10-19-22 at 01:33 PM ----------



If this was a one-off problem, I would suspect the water, but it's been going on now for over a year with the last three batches of stock. Also, I know the taste and smell of chlorine and relative to municipal water, our private spring aquifer water is good enough to be bottled as is.

Because Kodak suggests 64-80°F, I fear going over 80° may cause other side effects. I have been mixing them at 80°.

Huh, I get


1. Start with an amount of water that is approximately
75 percent of the total volume indicated on the
package. See the table above. The water should be at
normal room temperature, about 65 to 85°F (18 to
30°C).


About would mean it only needs to be warm enough to dissolve readily. "About" could be 90°... maybe. Do you check the pH of the tap water?

[brofkand]

One benefit of XTOL is you do not need to use warm water, it will dissolve with room temperature water.

[AstroDave]

With X-TOL it's almost as if it gains potency with age. We're not talking about wine....or are we?

Probably best not to drink it, though!!

[fs999]

You can also try Caffenol to teach alternative development to your students.

[Alex645]

You can also try Caffenol to teach alternative development to your students.

Back in the '80s, I had a classmate in Film School who had attended the University of Bath. They had a class where the entire process of creating a camera, an image, and making a permanent print were all done with found materials; nothing store bought or a photographic product.

As prices of film and photo chems get higher and higher, it becomes more tempting to consider an entire curriculum using non-toxic locally found materials that don't require the sort of carbon footprint that goes into most commercial products.

The very first assignment is having them making pinhole cameras, so it would be a natural to keeping the processes and materials low tech.

[Digitalis]

Right now, leaning toward switching to D-76

D-76 is what the darkroom students at my photography school use, for the more advanced students we teach them to make their own developers. Despite the hazards involved I'm always a fan of the Pyrocatechol option.

I too recommend using distilled water to mix your developer.

If this doesn't work, it is indicative that the chemistry is off somehow. With the temperatures and volumes you are working with the solubility of the powders really shouldn't be an issue.