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Cross-head screws - a caution:
Posted By: pacerr, 10-22-2010, 09:03 AM

Those screws that look like Phillips 00 and 000 in Japanese cameras and lenses? They aren't. They're JIS cross-heads and life's a lot simpler using JIS screw driver bits on 'em.

Whether you do this only once and run into trouble, or intend to do it often, it's worth your sanity to do it with the correct JIS tools so you don't risk stripping a screw head. T-shirts should be available for those that have been there, done that!

Sooner or later, you'll be sorry if you don't use the JIS bits since the Phillips bits make great roto-rooters in JIS screw heads because they don't fit all the way into the cross slots as you can see here:



If gentle torque with a common Phillips jeweler-type bit doesn't work, as a poor substitute, you might try filing a suitable flat-blade bit to the correct angle before you completely strip the JIS head.

[ Search "JIS screw drivers" on the net for sources. Generally less than $20 for a set of all four sizes. ]

H2

Last edited by pacerr; 10-22-2010 at 12:02 PM.
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10-22-2010, 09:10 AM   #2
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thanks for the heads up.
10-22-2010, 01:33 PM   #3
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The problem is that only the Japanese made products use JIS screws, and afaik, those nicely made NIWA JIS screwdrivers are discontinued and cannot be obtained anymore. The Moody made JIS drivers aren't even close in quality and will scar the screws. Camera manufacturers have their own custom made drivers like the NIWA but I doubt they will deal with individuals. Some said Canon USA was selling those drivers but that was many years ago. I have no idea if they still do. The shape as well as the quality of the blades are important if you don't want to scar the screws that you are working on. I have no idea where to buy these drivers if I were to buy today. Luckily I still have some spare NIWA that were purchased more than a decade ago. Expensive but well worth it.
10-25-2010, 08:28 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by wlachan Quote
The problem is that only the Japanese made products use JIS screws, and afaik, those nicely made NIWA JIS screwdrivers are discontinued and cannot be obtained anymore. The Moody made JIS drivers aren't even close in quality and will scar the screws. Camera manufacturers have their own custom made drivers like the NIWA but I doubt they will deal with individuals. Some said Canon USA was selling those drivers but that was many years ago. I have no idea if they still do. The shape as well as the quality of the blades are important if you don't want to scar the screws that you are working on. I have no idea where to buy these drivers if I were to buy today. Luckily I still have some spare NIWA that were purchased more than a decade ago. Expensive but well worth it.
A quick search revealed these sources:

McMaster-Carr
JIS (Phillips-type)

I imagine the longer you have to search, the more you'll find. In these instances, do you have any experience of the standard of their products?

10-26-2010, 01:21 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
A quick search revealed these sources:

McMaster-Carr
JIS (Phillips-type)

I imagine the longer you have to search, the more you'll find. In these instances, do you have any experience of the standard of their products?
I have no experience with these 2 products but since JIS is a Japanese standard, I am puzzled that they weren't in mm. For Pentax lenses & camera, I have found I only need 1.4mm & 2.5mm.
03-06-2013, 05:21 PM   #6
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Sources of JIS are thin on the ground in UK. Trawling the web one can find eg sources of Moody products but then postage can be way OTT.

FYI I obtained two small sizes of JIS blade from Micro Tools Europe
Micro-Tools Europe Tools | Miniature Tools for Camera and Watch Repair
and Starret jeweller's screwdrivers off ebay to use them in.
09-21-2013, 09:34 PM   #7
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Original Poster
>> Wiki refs:

- " Phillips . . . purposely designed to cam out when the screw is stalled,[citation needed] to prevent the fastener damaging the work or the head, instead damaging the driver."

- "The JIS B 1012 is commonly found in Japanese equipment. It looks like a Phillips screw, but is designed not to cam out and will, therefore, be damaged by a Phillips screwdriver if it is too tight. " <<

Phillips design is certainly a worthy feature when installing steel fasteners with a steel bit in an assembly line fashion as intended.

Unfortunately, installation isn't the problem in this application. The broader head of the steel Phillips bit doesn't seat fully into the JIS-type screw causing it to ream out the head of soft brass or aluminum camera and lens screws if they don't turn freely when unscrewing them -- which many don't as they're often corroded or a thread sealant has been used.

Once the cross point head of these tiny screws is damaged it's almost impossible to remove them with a screw extractor. If a JIS-type screw doesn't turn freely with a substitute Phillips bit you're better off to file a straight-slot type bit to a suitable point rather than risk reaming the head with a poorly fitting Phillips bit. Better yet, use the JIS bit with anything you plan to reassemble or repair.
09-21-2013, 09:44 PM   #8
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I had an HP computer with those types of screws in them. Luckily for me, I have a few JIS bits for my portable screwdrivers, one is a battery operated, the other a ratchet type. Both use the same style bits, making them interchangeable. .

05-17-2017, 03:03 PM   #9
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JIS Screwdrivers

I know this thread old but I'm new to this forum.
VESSEL a Japanese manufacturer still use JIS as standard, although their products are not labelled JIS. Hope this helps.
01-24-2018, 08:46 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by marcusBMG Quote
Sources of JIS are thin on the ground in UK. Trawling the web one can find eg sources of Moody products but then postage can be way OTT.

FYI I obtained two small sizes of JIS blade from Micro Tools Europe
Micro-Tools Europe Tools | Miniature Tools for Camera and Watch Repair
and Starret jeweller's screwdrivers off ebay to use them in.
I just looked on the Micro-tools site and most of the JIS screwdrivers there appear to be made by Moodys and have to specially ordered from them in the US!. Unhelpfully, the sizes are quoted as "#000, #00, #0, & #1" - does anyone know what those designations means in "metric" terms?
01-24-2018, 12:08 PM - 1 Like   #11
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This thread on a bikers forum comments on modding a phillips to jis.

Japanese Industrial Standard Screwdriver - How to make ? Tech Talk ? goldwingdocs.com

My experience is that for lenses the useful jis sizes are #00 and #0.
01-25-2018, 01:56 AM   #12
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@marcusBMG

Many thanks for the link (and thus the links within that thread - very informative!
01-25-2018, 09:37 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeallen01 Quote
I just looked on the Micro-tools site and most of the JIS screwdrivers there appear to be made by Moodys and have to specially ordered from them in the US!. Unhelpfully, the sizes are quoted as "#000, #00, #0, & #1" - does anyone know what those designations means in "metric" terms?
I ordered this from Ifixit.com

" This is our set of hard to find JIS drivers in #000, #00, #0, #1 sizes. Japanese Industrial Standard (JIS) screws are very common in personal electronics from digital cameras to RC Helicopters. JIS screws are often marked by a single dimple pressed into the screw head.

JIS screws are not designed to "cam-out" or strip the head when overtightened like a Phillips screw, and can be damaged if a Phillips driver is used. JIS drivers can be used in both JIS and Phillips screws with no damage.

This made in the USA set of 4 JIS drivers matches our Professional line of screwdrivers and has ergonomic swivel top ESD safe handles. "

JIS Driver Set ESD / USA / USA - iFixit

they are made by Moody

____________________

in answer to question # 2

I don't know, all I know is that I have a head ache after finding this


Screw Diameter

Inch

Your choices are...

# 0000 # 0000 fasteners have an inner diameter of 0.021 in.

# 000 # 000 fasteners have an inner diameter of 0.034 in.

# 00 # 00 fasteners have an inner diameter of 0.047 in.

# 0 # 0 fasteners have an inner diameter of 0.060 in.

# 1 # 1 fasteners have an inner diameter of 0.073 in.

http://www.globalspec.com/specSearch/SearchForm/Mechanical_Components/Mechan...steners/Screws

does that help??

Last edited by Aslyfox; 01-25-2018 at 09:48 AM.
01-30-2018, 06:24 PM   #14
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When I needed them a year or so ago they were easy to find on Amazon.
01-30-2018, 06:52 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by blackcloudbrew Quote
thanks for the heads up.
...well played.
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