We have many threads here about problems with the socalled back-up battery (memory battery)

One could also call it "CMOS-battery:


This tiny battery, a Lithium 3V Seiko MS414 is located on the motherboard of your Pentax exept the very first *ist-D which had it in a tiny compartment on the bottom of the camera, the most sensible and intelligent but also more expensive solution as you can see HERE

This tiny battery drains slowly because it keeps the date, time and all settings.
It is charged when the camera is switched on but keeps its charge only if its main-battery (either Li-Ion or 4 x AA's) remains in your Pentax!


Sony is the only manufacturer giving clear instructions concerning this battery:
Does the camera have an internal battery?:
The camera has an internal rechargeable battery for maintaining the date, time, and other settings. This information remains saved in the camera regardless of whether the main battery pack is installed or not, or whether the power if off or on.

The internal battery is continually recharged when the camera is turned on and in use
(Different to Pentax! This CMOS battery does not drain with the main battery/batteries inside the camera!)

NOTE: The internal battery discharges gradually if the camera is only used for short periods of time.
If the camera is not used at all for approximately 3 months, the internal battery becomes completely discharged.


I have to note here, that in many Pentax manuals the advice is "not to store your Pentax over a long period with the main battery inside".

Now, times have changed and most laptops, smartphones and similar devices have their main Li-Ion battery built in without being able to swap it!

Think about it: If you'd have a modern electric car, do you want to swap its battery every time you go on holidays (without car)?
Or did you ever take the battery out of your navigator?

The reason Pentax still recommends this is from old days when one used standard non-rechargeable batteries which could leak badly when drained. NiCd and NiMh rechargeables normally don't leak!

I would be more careful with no-name or aftermarket Li-Ion batteries, because I have seen those swelling which indicates cheap interior!

So back to this little memory- or back-up- or CMOS-battery:

To replace it is much more complicated than replacing the solenoid (when ABF hit your Pentax).
I wrote a tutorial for the K30/50/500 and K-r:
Tutorial: Change Back-up Battery Pentax K-30, K-50, K-500 - PentaxForums.com
It is not an easy job, because the two feet of the MS414 are soldered directly onto two thin conductive tracks on the PCB (Mainboard), a little bit too intensive soldering and those tracks go lose. Then there is no chance to repair this, only solution to remove the CMOS.

Other Pentax DLSR's such as the K7/5/3 K-S1, K-S2 and K-70 have the CMOS on the backside of the motherboard!
K7/K5 and K3 use the SEIKO MS518 which has almost double the capacity of the MS414GE.

HERE a photo of the K5 motherboard, the C-MOS battery. Similar soldering as with the K30/50 and K-r.

But on the K-S1, K-S2 and K-70 you don't want to solder at all on that tiny cramped mainboard.
I'd think Ricoh might change the complete mainboard if they have it for repair.

The CMOS battery holds it charge quite well over the first years, but like every electrical part and particular those containing Lithium they age and then drain quicker, but if not depleted, they do last quite a long time.
But if once depleted, will they not only try to charge and thus drain the main battery but they cannot "be healed" anymore.
This means every time you swap the main battery you lose date/time and your settings!

If you have complex settings, it is a pain then having to repeat this every time you need to recharge your battery.

What has to be done is to check regularely (every 2 month but also depending on climate, i.e. temperature) the charge of your main battery and
recharge it if you don't use your backup camera often and just store it. So it is with my old K10D. I hardly use it but anymore but I value it. Maybe it is some sentiment but I just don't want to let go of it. So every 2 month I check it and use it a little bit.
(Good news with the K10D and K20D is: Those are the only semi-professionals made by Pentax which use the Japansolenoid and here not using them has no affect on the solenoid, it works like a mechanical precise Suisse watch i.e. perfect!)


If your CMOS is depleted, you can try a few other methods, sometimes they work
(Me myself and others I know personally have tested and tried all those methods and no matter what anybody tries to suggest out of sheer theory, there is no danger with any of those methods for you camera!)

1.
a) In the Menu wrench-symbol: Auto Power Off: Off (so it won't switch off)
b) Leave your camera switched ON for several hours (don't worry, it will switch off automatically if the battery's voltage is too low to not endanger the battery!)

Maybe repeat this again.
Often this method will help to charge the CMOS at least to that extend that when you quickly swap batteries, it will hold your settings!

If this method won't work, try this:

2.
- plug in a full charged battery
- switch your Pentax on, do nothing but wait 30 seconds
- then switch it off and wait another 15 seconds
- switch it on again: Another 30 seconds

repeat this about 50 x times!

This will give an extra surge to the C-MOS battery.
Because there have been reservations towards this method from one member (without having ever tried it) in another thread:
No, there is no danger to your Pentax, but of course switching it 50 x on is a eeny weeny tiny bit more wear on your Pentax, basically the same as if you would have used it

50 times more during its lifetime. Is that a lot of wear? With a little bit of logic this question answers itself and any "warning" not to practice this method is based on imagined fear.
Everybody who knows me in this forum through the ABF / solenoid failure researches knows, that I do warn of misuse in many respects but here a warning is completly out of context!


If this more time-consuming method won't work, here is another solution, which works very well:
*ist DL and batteries? - Page 6 - PentaxForums.com

But with all those methods you must remember:
Your CMOS battery will suck energy on your main battery because it continuously tries to charge. You will notice that your main battery will need to be charged more often and... particular when you store your Pentax over a longer period: Check the status of your main battery regularely!
The main battery does keep the CMOS from discharging even so the charge current when the camera is switched on is stronger!
And yet the CMOS (if depleted!) sucks more on the main battery compared to a healthy CMOS. This I have verified with older Pentax DSLRs using AA's as much as with those using a Li-Ion main battery! And no, I have not and never will measure the different currents on the CMOS because this will need extra soldering on the mainboard so I can place either a multimeter or an oscilloscope in series to measure quick current-changes. As Ricoh/Pentax repairshops won't unsolder the CMOS on a mainboard but replace the complete mainboard, why should I then take the risk to destroy a mainboard?

Here another hint for the main D-LI50/90/109 battery, it it is completly depleted:
!Use a 3.rd party charger!
I have noticed a few times, that a Li-Ion such as the D-LI109 and D-LI90 when completly discharged would not be charged anymore by the original Pentax D-BC chargers. But when I charged them on a third party chargers it worked and then those batteries were o.k. again! The D-BC chargers by Pentax want to read a minimum voltage which the batteries don't have anymore. But the 3.rd party chargers accept a lower voltage to start charging and thus can restore a battery to full function again.

The only thing that really bothers me about the loss of cmos memories is my inability to back up my settings other than laboriously writing them all down in a notebook. I don't try to remember all that stuff, so I have to figure it out from scratch, and re-create all my special custom "drive mode" profile settings.

[Bob 256]

Anyone try replacing the battery by popping those two spot welds loose and putting a new cell in? There are small spot welders on the market which would allow you to re-spot weld the new cell if that's necessary (might need to dial down the power for this size cell). This would get around doing any soldering work unless that's necessary just to get to the battery.

Mini Spot Welding Machine, 9 Gears Adjustable Portable DIY Spot Welder with Quick Release Pen 18650 Battery Plate Spot Welding, Mini Spot Weld Machine with Nickel Sheet and Charging Cable - - amazon.com?tag=pentaxforums-20&

[swanlefitte]

Good information to know.

I have no problem leaving my battery in my ks-2 but the k100d only used aa which leaked, died, and the battery drained anyway. It was a pain cleaning out the compartment. Leaving the camera on to recharge then removing is the better option in this case I would think.

Also if you want to leave your camera on to recharge your battery be sure to change your auto power off setting in the menu. The ks-2 can be set for 1-30 minutes or turned off completely.

[photogem]

Also if you want to leave your camera on to recharge your battery be sure to change your auto power off setting in the menu. The ks-2 can be set for 1-30 minutes or turned off completely.

That's why I wrote:

.... a) In the Menu wrench-symbol: Auto Power Off: Off (so it won't switch off)....

[Not a Number]

I believe the batteries come with the surface mount bracket already attached. You have to check the Seiko spec sheet or one of the re-sellers like Digikey. The link to the spec sheets has been posted before. Search the forum for the battery number or it may be in one of the posts/threads linked in the article above.

You would have to un-weld both the old battery and the new one and than re-weld the new battery in place. The risks of damaging the new battery either through heat or compromising the casing are greatly increased.

[photogem]

There are different types, I have some MS414's here.

It is the MS414GE:
MS414GE | Seiko Instruments Inc. Micro Energy Division
This is different to the Seiko ML414H which Pentax used in the K-m (2000) and possibly K-x:
ML414H | Seiko Instruments Inc. Micro Energy Division
with a mounting bracket spotweldet onto the battery.
That bracket you cannot take off, I tried it and destroyed the battery (it was depleted anyway)
The big problem with this bracket is that it isn't just soldered like the MS414GE onto those two conductive tracks of the printed circuit board but solderen with that wide large minus-section. So you first have to touch the triangular plus part with the tip of your soldering-iron and try to lift it or bend it upwards and then with a larger soldering tip apply heat to that large minus part. I am quite experienced in soldering and have now the cream of the crop Weller which regulates heat very quickly.
And yet the contuctive minus part on the PCP got lose. It just wasn't made for service.

Luckily the MS414GE on the K-r, K30 and K50 it is easier to unsolder. And yet those thin conductive tracks there are very sensitive, once they come off, that's it.
No chance to solder a new battery on them. Then you have to improvise: Glue the battery on the PCP and scratch the laquer off where the tracks are still alright, solder a tiny wire there and its other end onto the battery.

[Sakura]

I wouldn't use solder. You could also use special electric conductive glue

Electrically conductive adhesive (Shieldokit)

[photogem]

I wouldn't use solder. You could also use special electric conductive glue

Electrically conductive adhesive (Shieldokit)

I have no experience with this (yet, but shall try!)


One could of course instead of unsoldering just cut the 2 feet, use a strong glue for the battery to fix it in the mainboard
and then use conductive adhesive.

[photogem]

I have found something interesting concering the CMOS battery (and included it as well in the main article together with some word about the name CMOS)

Sony is the only manufacturer giving clear instructions concerning this battery:
Does the camera have an internal battery?:
The camera has an internal rechargeable battery for maintaining the date, time, and other settings. This information remains saved in the camera regardless of whether the main battery pack is installed or not, or whether the power if off or on.

The internal battery is continually recharged when the camera is turned on and in use*


*different to Pentax! There the CMOS battery does not drain with the main battery/batteries inside the camera even if switched off.
I have verified this over a longer period of time.

[Angryman51]

So if I'm understanding this correctly on the KS-2 you do have to unsolder the connection? I can't just simply replace the battery itself?

[photogem]

So if I'm understanding this correctly on the KS-2 you do have to unsolder the connection? I can't just simply replace the battery itself?

Much more complicated:
You have to disassemble the camera, unscrew the mainboard because the battery is on the back.
Hopefully then the motherboard can be moved as it's possible with the K-x to have access to the battery which then can be unsoldered.
But: With the K-S1/2 and K-70 mainboards changed (due to compactness of the cameras) and parts are much more tightly packed or tiny in size, so it is very tricky to unsolder.
There are two tricks you can try which I read about just very recently but couldn't test yet myself due to lack of a Pentax with depleted C-MOS:

a) With a good and new D-LI109 (best no 3-rd party battery):

- In the menu turn the AUTO-OFF off or change it to 5 minutes (the setting I have anyway with all my Pentax DSLRs)

- Power the camera on for 30 seconds
- Turn it off
- Wait about ten seconds
- Power it back on for another 30 seconds
- Continue to do this 50 times (or more if needed).
The idea is that every time the camera is turned on, it’s proving a jolt of power to the date/time battery, which eventually resurrects it.

b) If above does not work, you don't want to diassemble your K-S2 and you are fine with the earliest date/time the menu has stored:
After having changed the D-LI109 switch the camera on and press the shutterbutton half way. Then the camera doesn't demand time/date settings anymore.

But only use the D-LI109 original Pentax (read the reviews in this forum why)

[Angryman51]

Thanks for the information photogem. It seem I may have lucked out. I turned off the auto shutoff and put a fully charged battery in and left the camera on overnight and then repeated the same again the next day. It seem to have charged the cmos battery. Thanks again.

[swanlefitte]

a) [URL="https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/438426-my-new-crippled-k200d.html#post5519765"]With a good and new D-LI109 (best no 3-rd party battery):

- In the menu turn the AUTO-OFF off or change it to 5 minutes (the setting I have anyway with all my Pentax DSLRs)

- Power the camera on for 30 seconds
- Turn it off
- Wait about ten seconds
- Power it back on for another 30 seconds
- Continue to do this 50 times (or more if needed).

So you perform CPR on the battery! Do that for 30 minutes then listen for signs of life and continue. Until I have heard of many successful stories or until I have a doctor to call it, method b is the way.

It seems like it could be tested by rigging a dead CMOS battery out of a camera up to some automatic switch directly to it. One could then test with variables also.

[photogem]

Thanks for the information photogem. It seem I may have lucked out. I turned off the auto shutoff and put a fully charged battery in and left the camera on overnight and then repeated the same again the next day. It seem to have charged the cmos battery. Thanks again.

I had used this method prior recently reading about the other method (CPR as @swanlefitte named it).
I only can guess (because I haven't had a Pentax with depleted CMOS-battery for quite a while on my workbench) that the repeating method does provide each times a jolt to the CMOS so the chance of "waking it up" might be better. At least member @bobore did it successfully with his K200D which is much much older, so its CMOS possibly was badly depleted. His use of Energizer Lithium AA's means of course an even stronger jolt just due to the way such AA's provide milliamperes!