K5 Video: still not full HD?

Groucho · 11-24-2010, 08:11 AM

A nice preset lens is a good way to adjust aperture during video without any clicks.

(I'm thinking here of the ones that have two aperture rings like the silver/black Takumar 135mm.) You would have to go it fairly slowly for the autoexposure to keep up without being distracting.

The 24p annoys me. That standard was created many, many decades ago due to mechanical constraints. It gives a "look" - a somewhat stuttery look, but some prefer it in the same way that some people prefer film grain over no grain, or lens flare over no lens flare, etc... it's taking a negative and turning it into a positive.

Until the advent of 120hZ Tvs, we didn't have the ability to view 24 fps videos at the correct frame rate. NTSC folks had 3:2 pulldown and PAL folks had the dreaded "PAL speedup" where movies would be shorter and the audio pitch increased (the latter lesser so with more modern technology.) 30 fps offers native viewing speeds on NTSC displays and PC monitors (most of which run at at least 60hZ.)

Now, one of the things that I love about Blurays is that the movies are generally encoded at 24fps so when I watch on my 120hZ TV, I get a perfect framerate (24fps x 5.) So I like 24 fps when it's appropriate (and I don't have the TV "smooth it out" by interpolating frames), but I have no interest in creating new 24 fps content when 30 fps is smoother and plays in more places correctly.

If I lived in a country that used PAL, I'd probably be quite happy with the 25 fps of the K-5. But I'm not. I want 30 fps, which I why I still shoot in 1280x720, just like I did with the K-7. IMHO, 24 fps is only worthwhile if your content is going to be converted to film and run through a projector or if you really want the slower, more stuttery look of 24 fps.

I know there are plenty of people who disagree with this, but those are my opinions on the matter. So far, only Canon has offered 1080/30fps on their DSLRs, which is probably part of the reason why they're popular for creating TV content (among other reasons, like there not being any serious video DSLR competition, especially in the FF world.)

inferno10 · 11-24-2010, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by Spock

Further to the above:

I have read that it is not possible to change aperture during videos.

Why is this important? I would have assumed the camera would just follow a normal program line during video recording, adjusting shutter speed and aperture as necessary.

If you look at professional video, you'll see that a single clip will always be shot at a fixed aperture. The aperture could change between shots, but usually won't be changed during a shot, even if the light situation changes. The aperture really affects the overall look of the shot, and changing it mid-shot would prove distracting to the viewer. There are examples on YouTube that show the consequences of adjusting aperture mid-clip; most often you'll see a flash or darkening, followed by shutter speed/ISO adjustment. It's neither pleasing nor professional-looking.

Another way to think of it is to treat it like Aperture Priority mode. After spending the time selecting the aperture for your composition, would you want to change the aperture as you're capturing a still frame? I sure wouldn't. It'd completely change the appearance that I composed prior to the start of the capture.

- Jason

Spock · 11-24-2010, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by inferno10

If you look at professional video, you'll see that a single clip will always be shot at a fixed aperture. The aperture could change between shots, but usually won't be changed during a shot, even if the light situation changes. The aperture really affects the overall look of the shot, and changing it mid-shot would prove distracting to the viewer. There are examples on YouTube that show the consequences of adjusting aperture mid-clip; most often you'll see a flash or darkening, followed by shutter speed/ISO adjustment. It's neither pleasing nor professional-looking.

Another way to think of it is to treat it like Aperture Priority mode. After spending the time selecting the aperture for your composition, would you want to change the aperture as you're capturing a still frame? I sure wouldn't. It'd completely change the appearance that I composed prior to the start of the capture.

- Jason

I agree, which is why I find it strange that reviewers have complained that the K7/K5 won't allow aperture adjustment during video recording.

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11-24-2010, 08:11 AM	#16
Groucho Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 416	A nice preset lens is a good way to adjust aperture during video without any clicks. (I'm thinking here of the ones that have two aperture rings like the silver/black Takumar 135mm.) You would have to go it fairly slowly for the autoexposure to keep up without being distracting. The 24p annoys me. That standard was created many, many decades ago due to mechanical constraints. It gives a "look" - a somewhat stuttery look, but some prefer it in the same way that some people prefer film grain over no grain, or lens flare over no lens flare, etc... it's taking a negative and turning it into a positive. Until the advent of 120hZ Tvs, we didn't have the ability to view 24 fps videos at the correct frame rate. NTSC folks had 3:2 pulldown and PAL folks had the dreaded "PAL speedup" where movies would be shorter and the audio pitch increased (the latter lesser so with more modern technology.) 30 fps offers native viewing speeds on NTSC displays and PC monitors (most of which run at at least 60hZ.) Now, one of the things that I love about Blurays is that the movies are generally encoded at 24fps so when I watch on my 120hZ TV, I get a perfect framerate (24fps x 5.) So I like 24 fps when it's appropriate (and I don't have the TV "smooth it out" by interpolating frames), but I have no interest in creating new 24 fps content when 30 fps is smoother and plays in more places correctly. If I lived in a country that used PAL, I'd probably be quite happy with the 25 fps of the K-5. But I'm not. I want 30 fps, which I why I still shoot in 1280x720, just like I did with the K-7. IMHO, 24 fps is only worthwhile if your content is going to be converted to film and run through a projector or if you really want the slower, more stuttery look of 24 fps. I know there are plenty of people who disagree with this, but those are my opinions on the matter. So far, only Canon has offered 1080/30fps on their DSLRs, which is probably part of the reason why they're popular for creating TV content (among other reasons, like there not being any serious video DSLR competition, especially in the FF world.)

11-24-2010, 12:10 PM	#17
inferno10 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 342	Originally posted by Spock Further to the above: I have read that it is not possible to change aperture during videos. Why is this important? I would have assumed the camera would just follow a normal program line during video recording, adjusting shutter speed and aperture as necessary. If you look at professional video, you'll see that a single clip will always be shot at a fixed aperture. The aperture could change between shots, but usually won't be changed during a shot, even if the light situation changes. The aperture really affects the overall look of the shot, and changing it mid-shot would prove distracting to the viewer. There are examples on YouTube that show the consequences of adjusting aperture mid-clip; most often you'll see a flash or darkening, followed by shutter speed/ISO adjustment. It's neither pleasing nor professional-looking. Another way to think of it is to treat it like Aperture Priority mode. After spending the time selecting the aperture for your composition, would you want to change the aperture as you're capturing a still frame? I sure wouldn't. It'd completely change the appearance that I composed prior to the start of the capture. - Jason

11-24-2010, 07:43 PM	#18
Spock Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 674 Original Poster	Originally posted by inferno10 If you look at professional video, you'll see that a single clip will always be shot at a fixed aperture. The aperture could change between shots, but usually won't be changed during a shot, even if the light situation changes. The aperture really affects the overall look of the shot, and changing it mid-shot would prove distracting to the viewer. There are examples on YouTube that show the consequences of adjusting aperture mid-clip; most often you'll see a flash or darkening, followed by shutter speed/ISO adjustment. It's neither pleasing nor professional-looking. Another way to think of it is to treat it like Aperture Priority mode. After spending the time selecting the aperture for your composition, would you want to change the aperture as you're capturing a still frame? I sure wouldn't. It'd completely change the appearance that I composed prior to the start of the capture. - Jason I agree, which is why I find it strange that reviewers have complained that the K7/K5 won't allow aperture adjustment during video recording.