Q. When is a K-5 + kit lens not a K-5 + kit lens

Roughrider · 12-13-2011, 11:03 AM

A. When is it part of a K-5 plus 2-lens kit.

My girlfriend bought me the K-5 + 18-50 DA lens kit, plus a DA 55-300 lens, which looked like a great upgrade compared to the usual two-lens kit (second lens being 50-200). Nicer I thought - and lighter and more weather resistant and potentially a nicer quality piece of glass than the (much cheaper) Tamron 70-300 in the same shop too.

At home I realised the 55-300 lens is not WR, which matters for me. Simple, I thought, since the shop has a full refund policy. I can exchange the 55-300 lens for the 50-200 WR lens. Then I have "bought" the K-5 + 18-55 and 50-200 2-lens kit, and at that kit price I can use the extra refund to get the Tamron as well so we (actually my other half is the telephoto fan) also have a 300mm lens when we want it.

Oh no. Far too simple an idea. No, I have to order a separate camera + 18-55 + 50-200 in a "two lens kit" variety, and return and refund in full my identical box with identical kit in it that was sold as a "one-lens kit". Even though the two-lens kit actually comes in the same boxes as the one-lens kit + a separate 50-200 WR lens, just shrink-wrapped together, these components must be sold as a two-lens kit only. And my shop cannot sell me the single-lens kit plus the lens to make up a two-lens kit - they are charged different amounts meaning I could not benefit from the better price. And they have it in stock - but not as a two-lens kit!

So I have to wait, to return the camera in the "one-lens" kit unused, once the two-lens kit comes into stock. I can't use (and then keep) the camera part of what I have in the meantime. Due to serial numbers.

Jssop's swear to me Pentax sell them in this way, i.e. due to warranty and to how it is priced when they buy it they can't afford to split/combine into sets. I am sure there is some economic sense in it - but as a consumer who is desperate to get his hands on the gear, the fact my shop can't consider one set of kit + the second lens as fungible with another set of absolutely identical equipment but sold as a different 'package' means I haven't got - and run the risk of not getting - my camera at all. Certainly for my trip to the coast on Friday / Saturday - and potentially holiday to New Zealand in early Jan

The only reason I hadn't opened it was because it is a gift for me on 15th of this month otherwise I would have used it, so that was lucky for me.

So the point of this post is I suppose a slight warning to others to do a bit more research than me before you buy!

i.e. understand that the (i) DA 55-300 is not WR - despite having a nice green line and looking almost the same as the DA 50-200. Nobody every told me it was - but I managed to assume it based on the look - and the shop managed not to disabuse me of my inaccurate assumption, so who knows you could repeat my mistake. And secondly that these kits are apparently extremely inflexible - they exist in isolation but not as the sum of their components.

I got some additional discount from the store by negotiating first time around, bit of a price match, half-price filter with the lens, 25% off a bag, if I had asked for the two-lens kit there and then I would still be waiting anyway (or bought elsewhere) but having the box at home, unuseable, very frustrating!

Frogfish · 12-13-2011, 11:21 AM

Well you have some great kit on the way .... and that girlfriend is a real keeper !!

**savoche** · 12-13-2011, 11:36 AM

Strange. When I bought my K-5 I didn't mention the 50-200 until after the shop clerk had fetched the K-5 + 18-55 kit. Then he went to get the 50-200 - and sold it as a two-lens kit, no shrink wrap and no problem. But policies may be different in Norway.

Must be awful to have the box but not be able to open it! Although, the 55-300 is a better lens - but if the WR is crucial, I guess that doesn't really matter. I ended up with both...

And I agree - don't let go of that girl

Roughrider · 12-13-2011, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by savoche

don't let go of that girl

She's got a ring on her finger - eventually I will be able to take a ***** photo of it!

sterretje · 12-13-2011, 10:38 PM

I wonder where the story comes from that the green ring implies 'WR'? Look at all the green rings on e.g. PENTAX Digital Camera Lens Lineup

With regards to WR; plastic bags (or dedicated sleeves or whatever they are called) work as well; there are even people that consider WR only a second line of defense. And the fact that my FA31Ltd is not WR has not stopped me from using it in pooring rain, even without protection.

**JimD** · 12-13-2011, 11:35 PM

Why did you go to Jessops in the first instance? There are loads of 'proper' camera shops as cheap, if not more so.

I went into the store in Cardiff before I bought my K5 to ask for a look at one. The spotty little youth behind the counter didn't have a clue what a K5 was even though they were advertised in the window.

Can't you ask for a refund and go elsewhere?

Roughrider · 12-14-2011, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by JimD

Why did you go to Jessops in the first instance? There are loads of 'proper' camera shops as cheap, if not more so.

I went into the store in Cardiff before I bought my K5 to ask for a look at one. The spotty little youth behind the counter didn't have a clue what a K5 was even though they were advertised in the window.

Can't you ask for a refund and go elsewhere?

I got a couple of hours of their time looking at the big brands, I can physically return it in case there was ever a problem, price still competitive especially only £100 for my Tamron 70-300. At least they lend you a memory card to play around taking photos with too.

Regarding WR I don't plan to get it wet or dirty I just don't want to have to be paranoid and treat it with kid gloves every time a snowflake falls or a wave throws up a drop of spray I don't have to put it away. I have destroyed three "tough" waterproof cameras I think every little helps!

**crewl1** · 12-14-2011, 12:43 AM

I would keep the kit you bought and trade someone your da55-300 for a wr50-200 if you really have to have it.
I trust you will find many folks willing to trade as the 55-300 has gobs better image quality and I predict you will regret it.

Roughrider · 12-14-2011, 04:52 AM

I get 50-200 WR and Tamron 70-300 from the shop in exchange for 55-300. If I get good enough to need and appreciate the difference I'll go for DA* 2.8 and 1.4's etc in future i would love to be good enough photographer to "need" them, for now it's as much convenience and reassurance rather than purely IQ alone that I'm worrying about

Docrwm · 12-14-2011, 06:24 AM

You could, here's an off the track thought, go with a 18-135WR + the Tamron for longer shots. The 18-135 is considered an upgrade optically from the 18-55, extends your reach, is WR, and covers more ground than the 18-55 without needing to open the camera by changing lenses. It's a thought.

pentup · 12-16-2011, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by sterretje

And the fact that my FA31Ltd is not WR has not stopped me from using it in pooring rain, even without protection.

Braver man than I am. It's just so damned expensive! But that's reassuring.

Dave L · 12-17-2011, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by Roughrider

A. When is it part of a K-5 plus 2-lens kit.

Jssop's swear to me Pentax sell them in this way, i.e. due to warranty and to how it is priced when they buy it they can't afford to split/combine into sets.

So the point of this post is I suppose a slight warning to others to do a bit more research than me before you buy!

Some Pentax Pro dealers are happy to split kit lenses from bodies and sell them separately 'unboxed', but with full guarantee, at the 'discounted' kit price. SRS Microsystems and Park cameras for example, check their websites. I know that for sure because my K-5 body had the kit lens split out (at my request) and that was sold by the shop separately. Unboxed doesn't necessarily mean literally unboxed, by the way.

You won't usuallly get that kind of flexibility at Jessops or other chain stores.

reeftool · 12-17-2011, 08:22 AM

Since you all will probably come down with LBA anyhow, keep what you have, buy a 50-200WR in the marketplace because after Christmas there will likely be a bunch who bought it bundled in "kits" who will want the 55-300 because they need the extra reach. You were going to buy the Tamron anyhow, why not just buy the 50-200? Sooner or later in your browsing the forum, you are going to decide you need a Limited then you'll really have problems.

Feel fortunate that you still have a store where you can buy your gear. I have a 50 mile drive just to find a camera store and would have to drive over 200 miles to buy a Pentax.

Roughrider · 12-21-2011, 07:35 AM

I received my twin lens kit on 15th December and exchanged it with no issues. Still impressed with knowledgeability of Jessop's team in Oxford St.

So I took it to the caost for a couple of days for my first foray into owning my own DSLR. Imagine my disappointment to see a fingerprint in the top-left of the viewfinder, which research indicated was probably on the focussing screen (not on lens, not outside of viewfinder). Anyway I snapped away, took it to Jessop's (local branch in Wimbledon) on Sunday, where one of their staff said he could see it also (easiest against a light grey sky) and I should exhcange immediately. Manager of Oxford St branch was adamant this is structure in the screen itself. Fortunately the shop demo body was on hand and sure enough exactly the same structure is visible in its viewfinder. Phew!

Do you all see the same thing, hold the camera to white backgroud and focus your eye on the "grain" in the viewfinder, on both sides but mostly top left there are concentric lines / structure visible in it looks just like a fingerprint? I was annoyed to waste the trip but so relieved my new camera wasn't a flawed one.

Will try to post a pic I took it's a seascape with IR in-camera processing, nowhere near as good as what you can all do but I'm happy so far :-)

**crewl1** · 12-21-2011, 09:02 AM

Yes, they really are supposed to be there.

When I can see the concentric lines of the focusing screen I become happy because it tells me my diopter is set to match my failing eyes

Congrats on getting a good camera.

I feel sorry for the clerk who agreed with your initial analysis who probably got reamed by the manager and made to watch the 'loss prevention" training video a few times.
(After the 'Is the customer really always right?' video.)

12-13-2011, 11:03 AM	#1
Roughrider Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 17	Q. When is a K-5 + kit lens not a K-5 + kit lens A. When is it part of a K-5 plus 2-lens kit. My girlfriend bought me the K-5 + 18-50 DA lens kit, plus a DA 55-300 lens, which looked like a great upgrade compared to the usual two-lens kit (second lens being 50-200). Nicer I thought - and lighter and more weather resistant and potentially a nicer quality piece of glass than the (much cheaper) Tamron 70-300 in the same shop too. At home I realised the 55-300 lens is not WR, which matters for me. Simple, I thought, since the shop has a full refund policy. I can exchange the 55-300 lens for the 50-200 WR lens. Then I have "bought" the K-5 + 18-55 and 50-200 2-lens kit, and at that kit price I can use the extra refund to get the Tamron as well so we (actually my other half is the telephoto fan) also have a 300mm lens when we want it. Oh no. Far too simple an idea. No, I have to order a separate camera + 18-55 + 50-200 in a "two lens kit" variety, and return and refund in full my identical box with identical kit in it that was sold as a "one-lens kit". Even though the two-lens kit actually comes in the same boxes as the one-lens kit + a separate 50-200 WR lens, just shrink-wrapped together, these components must be sold as a two-lens kit only. And my shop cannot sell me the single-lens kit plus the lens to make up a two-lens kit - they are charged different amounts meaning I could not benefit from the better price. And they have it in stock - but not as a two-lens kit! So I have to wait, to return the camera in the "one-lens" kit unused, once the two-lens kit comes into stock. I can't use (and then keep) the camera part of what I have in the meantime. Due to serial numbers. Jssop's swear to me Pentax sell them in this way, i.e. due to warranty and to how it is priced when they buy it they can't afford to split/combine into sets. I am sure there is some economic sense in it - but as a consumer who is desperate to get his hands on the gear, the fact my shop can't consider one set of kit + the second lens as fungible with another set of absolutely identical equipment but sold as a different 'package' means I haven't got - and run the risk of not getting - my camera at all. Certainly for my trip to the coast on Friday / Saturday - and potentially holiday to New Zealand in early Jan The only reason I hadn't opened it was because it is a gift for me on 15th of this month otherwise I would have used it, so that was lucky for me. So the point of this post is I suppose a slight warning to others to do a bit more research than me before you buy! i.e. understand that the (i) DA 55-300 is not WR - despite having a nice green line and looking almost the same as the DA 50-200. Nobody every told me it was - but I managed to assume it based on the look - and the shop managed not to disabuse me of my inaccurate assumption, so who knows you could repeat my mistake. And secondly that these kits are apparently extremely inflexible - they exist in isolation but not as the sum of their components. I got some additional discount from the store by negotiating first time around, bit of a price match, half-price filter with the lens, 25% off a bag, if I had asked for the two-lens kit there and then I would still be waiting anyway (or bought elsewhere) but having the box at home, unuseable, very frustrating!

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12-13-2011, 11:21 AM	#2
Frogfish Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Shanghai Posts: 4,490	Well you have some great kit on the way .... and that girlfriend is a real keeper !!

12-13-2011, 11:36 AM	#3
savoche Master of the obvious Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Lowlands of Norway Posts: 18,311	Strange. When I bought my K-5 I didn't mention the 50-200 until after the shop clerk had fetched the K-5 + 18-55 kit. Then he went to get the 50-200 - and sold it as a two-lens kit, no shrink wrap and no problem. But policies may be different in Norway. Must be awful to have the box but not be able to open it! Although, the 55-300 is a better lens - but if the WR is crucial, I guess that doesn't really matter. I ended up with both... And I agree - don't let go of that girl

12-13-2011, 11:48 AM	#4
Roughrider Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 17 Original Poster	Originally posted by savoche don't let go of that girl She's got a ring on her finger - eventually I will be able to take a ***** photo of it!

12-13-2011, 10:38 PM	#5
sterretje Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Roodepoort, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,561	I wonder where the story comes from that the green ring implies 'WR'? Look at all the green rings on e.g. PENTAX Digital Camera Lens Lineup With regards to WR; plastic bags (or dedicated sleeves or whatever they are called) work as well; there are even people that consider WR only a second line of defense. And the fact that my FA31Ltd is not WR has not stopped me from using it in pooring rain, even without protection.

12-13-2011, 11:35 PM	#6
JimD Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Newport, South Wales Posts: 187	Why did you go to Jessops in the first instance? There are loads of 'proper' camera shops as cheap, if not more so. I went into the store in Cardiff before I bought my K5 to ask for a look at one. The spotty little youth behind the counter didn't have a clue what a K5 was even though they were advertised in the window. Can't you ask for a refund and go elsewhere?

12-14-2011, 12:20 AM	#7
Roughrider Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 17 Original Poster	Originally posted by JimD Why did you go to Jessops in the first instance? There are loads of 'proper' camera shops as cheap, if not more so. I went into the store in Cardiff before I bought my K5 to ask for a look at one. The spotty little youth behind the counter didn't have a clue what a K5 was even though they were advertised in the window. Can't you ask for a refund and go elsewhere? I got a couple of hours of their time looking at the big brands, I can physically return it in case there was ever a problem, price still competitive especially only £100 for my Tamron 70-300. At least they lend you a memory card to play around taking photos with too. Regarding WR I don't plan to get it wet or dirty I just don't want to have to be paranoid and treat it with kid gloves every time a snowflake falls or a wave throws up a drop of spray I don't have to put it away. I have destroyed three "tough" waterproof cameras I think every little helps!

12-14-2011, 12:43 AM	#8
crewl1 Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Los Angeles, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,807	I would keep the kit you bought and trade someone your da55-300 for a wr50-200 if you really have to have it. I trust you will find many folks willing to trade as the 55-300 has gobs better image quality and I predict you will regret it.

12-14-2011, 04:52 AM	#9
Roughrider Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 17 Original Poster	I get 50-200 WR and Tamron 70-300 from the shop in exchange for 55-300. If I get good enough to need and appreciate the difference I'll go for DA* 2.8 and 1.4's etc in future i would love to be good enough photographer to "need" them, for now it's as much convenience and reassurance rather than purely IQ alone that I'm worrying about

12-14-2011, 06:24 AM	#10
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	You could, here's an off the track thought, go with a 18-135WR + the Tamron for longer shots. The 18-135 is considered an upgrade optically from the 18-55, extends your reach, is WR, and covers more ground than the 18-55 without needing to open the camera by changing lenses. It's a thought.

12-16-2011, 07:32 PM	#11
pentup Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Flushing NY Photos: Albums Posts: 413	Originally posted by sterretje And the fact that my FA31Ltd is not WR has not stopped me from using it in pooring rain, even without protection. Braver man than I am. It's just so damned expensive! But that's reassuring.

12-17-2011, 07:46 AM	#12
Dave L Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hampshire UK Posts: 306	Originally posted by Roughrider A. When is it part of a K-5 plus 2-lens kit. Jssop's swear to me Pentax sell them in this way, i.e. due to warranty and to how it is priced when they buy it they can't afford to split/combine into sets. So the point of this post is I suppose a slight warning to others to do a bit more research than me before you buy! Some Pentax Pro dealers are happy to split kit lenses from bodies and sell them separately 'unboxed', but with full guarantee, at the 'discounted' kit price. SRS Microsystems and Park cameras for example, check their websites. I know that for sure because my K-5 body had the kit lens split out (at my request) and that was sold by the shop separately. Unboxed doesn't necessarily mean literally unboxed, by the way. You won't usuallly get that kind of flexibility at Jessops or other chain stores.

12-17-2011, 08:22 AM	#13
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,553	Since you all will probably come down with LBA anyhow, keep what you have, buy a 50-200WR in the marketplace because after Christmas there will likely be a bunch who bought it bundled in "kits" who will want the 55-300 because they need the extra reach. You were going to buy the Tamron anyhow, why not just buy the 50-200? Sooner or later in your browsing the forum, you are going to decide you need a Limited then you'll really have problems. Feel fortunate that you still have a store where you can buy your gear. I have a 50 mile drive just to find a camera store and would have to drive over 200 miles to buy a Pentax.

12-21-2011, 07:35 AM	#14
Roughrider Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 17 Original Poster	I received my twin lens kit on 15th December and exchanged it with no issues. Still impressed with knowledgeability of Jessop's team in Oxford St. So I took it to the caost for a couple of days for my first foray into owning my own DSLR. Imagine my disappointment to see a fingerprint in the top-left of the viewfinder, which research indicated was probably on the focussing screen (not on lens, not outside of viewfinder). Anyway I snapped away, took it to Jessop's (local branch in Wimbledon) on Sunday, where one of their staff said he could see it also (easiest against a light grey sky) and I should exhcange immediately. Manager of Oxford St branch was adamant this is structure in the screen itself. Fortunately the shop demo body was on hand and sure enough exactly the same structure is visible in its viewfinder. Phew! Do you all see the same thing, hold the camera to white backgroud and focus your eye on the "grain" in the viewfinder, on both sides but mostly top left there are concentric lines / structure visible in it looks just like a fingerprint? I was annoyed to waste the trip but so relieved my new camera wasn't a flawed one. Will try to post a pic I took it's a seascape with IR in-camera processing, nowhere near as good as what you can all do but I'm happy so far :-)

12-21-2011, 09:02 AM	#15
crewl1 Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Los Angeles, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,807	Yes, they really are supposed to be there. When I can see the concentric lines of the focusing screen I become happy because it tells me my diopter is set to match my failing eyes Congrats on getting a good camera. I feel sorry for the clerk who agreed with your initial analysis who probably got reamed by the manager and made to watch the 'loss prevention" training video a few times. (After the 'Is the customer really always right?' video.)