[philbaum]

That might be intuitive, but it's not how any SR systems (I've heard of) works. They all need to be stable (or in a steady movement) a short time before being ready.

Folks, if you haven't done Gimbal's test, give it a try. With SR on and your eyes focused on the SR hand in the viewfinder, move the lens suddenly in another direction, only takes 5 or 10 degrees. The hand icon will go out and come back 2 seconds later. Very repeatable and doesn't even need to be very sudden. If you look at exposure indicators like aperture, ISO, shutter values, these are constantly moving also, except if you are in Manual mode. If you put your finger on the half shutter, however, like Gimbal says, the hand icon stays locked on, even though its a mechanical/electrical system.

Gimbal, i think you're right - It sure seems to be a bug. Its much better to know when the SR system is locked on in a new position, than to keep the hand locked on the screen with false information.

I wonder if this bug will show up in the new models this year

[jpzk]

That's a good thread! and we always learn new things.

But I do have a question which always seem to re-surface and is never quite answered "properly" ...

I am shooting BIF's and the camera is set to TAv, shutter speed at least 1/1000sec and the SR is always "ON".
If I am going to pan a shot at that shutter speed and shoot in AF.C, will the SR fool the shot, causing blur?
I make sure that the SR "hand" shows in the viewfinder before taking the shots, and I usually keep it there until I start pressing the shutter button all the way to engage the shoot series.

I am not sure whether this would explain some OOF or motion-blurred shots during such a procedure.
I noticed that once the first shot of a series (using AF.C) and with SR "ON" is off, the rest of the series will definitely be off too. That's to be expected I suppose, but is this related in any way to the use/non-use of the SR?

JP

[Gimbal]

I did a simple test a while ago regarding SR and panning, and it SEEMS to me as if there is a special panning mode that activates automatically, even the old K10d had it.

But it also seems as it is partially broken in the K5. Again, it SEEMS (from my simple test) to be working only if you are shooting from live view, (but really one need to do some more testing to be absolutely sure).

However, the simple test unfortunately strongly suggests that with the K5, SR should not be used during panning action.

se https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/167825-panning-shake-red...bug-found.html

[Dave L]

That might be intuitive, but it's not how any SR systems (I've heard of) works. They all need to be stable (or in a steady movement) a short time before being ready.

I said it's intuitive because not knowing how SR systems worked, I had assumed that the hand staying on while the shutter remains half-pressed meant the same as when the focus indicator and exposure indications stay on - i.e. that the SR stays in the same condition i.e. operative. I can see now that if SR does in fact switch off when you suddenly move the camera more than slightly, the hand should also switch off until (and if) it re-stabilises.

A better comparison might be with the horizon/level indicator, which stays active in real-time in the VF even while the shutter is half depressed, and so should the SR indication continue to operate in real time. Are we even certain that if SR does deactivate on sudden movement, but the hand remains lit, it also reactivates if the shutter release remains depressed and the camera becomes reasonably stable again? How would we even know?

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Last edited by Dave L; 12-28-2011 at 02:05 PM.

[philbaum]

I am shooting BIF's and the camera is set to TAv, shutter speed at least 1/1000sec and the SR is always "ON".
If I am going to pan a shot at that shutter speed and shoot in AF.C, will the SR fool the shot, causing blur?
I make sure that the SR "hand" shows in the viewfinder before taking the shots, and I usually keep it there until I start pressing the shutter button all the way to engage the shoot series.

I am not sure whether this would explain some OOF or motion-blurred shots during such a procedure.
I noticed that once the first shot of a series (using AF.C) and with SR "ON" is off, the rest of the series will definitely be off too. That's to be expected I suppose, but is this related in any way to the use/non-use of the SR?

JP

Anyone can try this, put SR on but don't keep the finger on the shutter. Now pan moderately left or right. The hand may stay up for a few seconds, but then goes out and may struggle back on again.

All these on and off hand icons means the SR is moving into and out of alignment with the camera motion. Definitely don''t use it for panning, even the manual says that Using it for panning could cause OOF shots, IMO.

[Laurentiu Cristofor]

I never paid attention to the SR "hand" indicator in the camera viewfinder.

From the discussion we had on SR in another thread, it sounds like the sensor isn't ready until a shot is actually taken, so I'm not even sure what is the point of saying that SR is active when the sensor is laying limp inside the camera.

[philbaum]

I never paid attention to the SR "hand" indicator in the camera viewfinder.

From the discussion we had on SR in another thread, it sounds like the sensor isn't ready until a shot is actually taken, so I'm not even sure what is the point of saying that SR is active when the sensor is laying limp inside the camera.

The point is that if the hand is showing, the effects of SR will be incorporated into your shot per Pentax. If the SR is not active, then SR readiness may be as long as 2 seconds after the shot sequence; one may see bluriness in their shot from the sensor moving into position.

[derekkite]

Hmm. This is interesting. I've noticed with my 300 2.8 tamron some blurring. I use it on a monopod The position of the focus ring behind the tripod mount makes it swivel very easily because you can't have a hand near the far end to stabilize it. So what happens is what would look like a panning action starting and stopping then going the other way, quite different from the normal shakes that you would produce hand holding. If it takes a few seconds to find itself after a change in movement pattern, there is a great likelihood of shots being taken when the system was reinitializing the SR.

I think I will try it with SR off to see if I get any different results.

[philbaum]

Hmm. This is interesting. I've noticed with my 300 2.8 tamron some blurring. I use it on a monopod The position of the focus ring behind the tripod mount makes it swivel very easily because you can't have a hand near the far end to stabilize it. So what happens is what would look like a panning action starting and stopping then going the other way, quite different from the normal shakes that you would produce hand holding. If it takes a few seconds to find itself after a change in movement pattern, there is a great likelihood of shots being taken when the system was reinitializing the SR.

I think I will try it with SR off to see if I get any different results.

Derek,
All monopods have a tendency to swivel easily around the axis of the monopod. Thats very irritating with those items. Manfrotto sells a spear point accessory for their monopod that helps some. In any case, going w/o SR and upping the shutter should help. let us know if you are able about the results. i've always wondered about SR on monopods.

[derekkite]

I am trying to avoid the tendency to blame anything but my technique but I have been challenged to get decent shots out of this lens. Some are stunning, clear and detailed, so I know what it can do. Thinking back, some of the best shots, or even series of shots have been the rare occasions when I forget to bring my monopod and shoot hand held. The shots are as good as the light and distance can give me, and I'm not going to brag about my steady hands, which I don't have. Especially with this heavy lens and the awkward hand positions required to steady it and focus. I had one series of a bobcat in a tree about 200 ft or so away, and was blown away with the detail. Handheld.

I do get some nice shots on the monopod, but the results are not as expected. Are those the ones where the SR has had a chance to stabilize? The movement is less than hand held but mostly on one axis. I have used the monopod with a non stabilized body previously with good results, made a big improvement, so I don't think it is only my technique.

I'm typically shooting birds or wildlife, so my focus is on the subject which may move at any time, and maintaining focus. I haven't noticed or paid attention to the sr indicator, just assuming it is doing it's thing without any attention.

In any case I will try without the SR.

Is there an exif tag showing the state of the SR?

[bjake]

Never tried to figure out when camera automatically turns on and off SR and don't intend to.Do realize SR is turned off when using timer.SR in cameras do work.I have used a Panasonic FZ from 2004 until I got my KX this spring.Have taken shots at full zoom or equivalent of 432mm at less than 200 and got sharp images,think the SR on the KX will work as well.What I have gotten from this thread and other sources is that SR might cause blurring in some cases.I am going to turn my SR off until such a time
that speed is less than the focal length just to see if anything changes.
Jake

[maxfield_photo]

On the K20d, with the DA* 50-135 (and to my recollection every other lens I've ever tried), the hand indicator only come on when the shutter is halfway pressed. Sudden movements do not cause the hand to disappear as long as the shutter is held half way. Releasing the shutter causes the hand to turn of almost instantly, there is a fraction of a second delay. Maybe the hand icon just means that the sensor is currently being allowed to float, not necessarily that it is locked onto a subject.

[Gimbal]

They have changed the behavior of the SR icon since then. On the K10d the icon light up after a small delay and stay lit as long as the shutter is halfway pressed, no matter how one swings the camera around. Obviously the icon doesn't show the real state of the SR system.

The sensor is never allowed to float around as if it was loosely suspended, it is always positioned actively by the SR system. With SR off, the position is set to be in the center.
With SR on the position is constantly updated to be where the SR systems thinks it should be.

[Laurentiu Cristofor]

The point is that if the hand is showing, the effects of SR will be incorporated into your shot per Pentax.

Based on your claim that the indicator goes off when moving the camera, it sounds like there is no guarantee - the hand just indicates that the SR can handle the vibration at that particular moment, but fully pressing the shutter could very well induce vibration that cannot be compensated. Even if the hand indicator doesn't go away, it is obvious that SR cannot handle any kind of camera movement. So why show the indicator at all? I think it is just confusing.

They have changed the behavior of the SR icon since then. On the K10d the icon light up after a small delay and stay lit as long as the shutter is halfway pressed, no matter how one swings the camera around. Obviously the icon doesn't show the real state of the SR system.

Actually, I don't see any SR indicator on my K10D. Looks like it was added later. Guess that is a good reason why I never paid attention to it.

On the K20d, with the DA* 50-135 (and to my recollection every other lens I've ever tried), the hand indicator only come on when the shutter is halfway pressed. Sudden movements do not cause the hand to disappear as long as the shutter is held half way. Releasing the shutter causes the hand to turn of almost instantly, there is a fraction of a second delay. Maybe the hand icon just means that the sensor is currently being allowed to float, not necessarily that it is locked onto a subject.

I see the same behavior on the K-7 and K-x. The indicator lights up soon after half press, doesn't go away when moving the camera, goes away when releasing the shutter. If the K-5 behaves differently, something has changed. Also sounds like this indicator was introduced in the K20D, because I don't have it on my K10D.

[Gimbal]

Also sounds like this indicator was introduced in the K20D, because I don't have it on my K10D.

No, it's there on the K10d as well.