jpeg only colour shift

adwb · 02-11-2012, 05:11 AM

I normally use all my bodies in raw and recently had to set up for a client who specifically wanted some head/shoulder shots to show off her hair.
So I dug out my foam head and a hair piece to test the lighting set up I had in mind.
For speed sake I set my k5 to jpeg so I could quickly check the results just by plugging in the card and using windows to view the results.
the results were a bit odd, the hair colour on the camera LCD looked correct but on the PC looked to have auburn tint [the hair piece is a mousy blond]
I turned off highlights and shadows , made sure the natural setting was on and tried again, with same result.
I changed back to raw/jpeg and the LCD still looks the same [no surprise there] but when viewed in LR the raw hair colour is correct and the jpeg is still wrong.
it's not a problem , really as i don't use jpeg normally but I just wonder what is causing it.
Oh yes, also, creating a jpeg from the raw either in Lr or PS or using jpeg from raw utility, all give a jpeg with the correct hair colour as well. it is only the jpeg from the camera that is wrong.
I also double checked the natural setting to make sure it was centred and not off set at all.
Any ideas any one?

ChrisJ · 02-11-2012, 05:18 AM

When you shoot jpeg the camera is making all the adjustments as it converts from the original Raw file from the sensor, you can alter the way it does this in camera so it mimics the settings you have in your Raw converter usually by altering saturation, contrast and colour, but it's a hit and miss affair. It's probably quicker just to use your normal Raw workflow, then you know what your going to get.

Don't forget that jpeg 'dumps' all the data that won't fit inside the 8bit jpeg container so it's bound to look different.

Chris

adwb · 02-11-2012, 05:25 AM

Originally posted by ChrisJ

When you shoot jpeg the camera is making all the adjustments as it converts from the original Raw file from the sensor, you can alter the way it does this in camera so it mimics the settings you have in your Raw converter usually by altering saturation, contrast and colour, but it's a hit and miss affair. It's probably quicker just to use your normal Raw workflow, then you know what your going to get.

Don't forget that jpeg 'dumps' all the data that won't fit inside the 8bit jpeg container so it's bound to look different.

Chris

yes sure but that does not explain the in camera jpeg converter giving a different and incorrect result compaired to 3 other software converters that convert the same raw correctly.

**Lowell Goudge** · 02-11-2012, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by adwb

yes sure but that does not explain the in camera jpeg converter giving a different and incorrect result compaired to 3 other software converters that convert the same raw correctly.

What color space do you have set, this is probably the issue

ChrisJ · 02-11-2012, 06:38 AM

Lr and PS are not working in 8bit they work in 16bit, it's only when you save to jpeg that they convert from 16bit to 8bit. They have far more headroom when open on your computer. They are also working in Abobe colour space which has a wider gamut of colour than jpeg. Save a Raw from LR or PS as a jpeg then compare that with the jpeg conversion of the same raw image from the camera. Any differences you see are being applied in the in camera conversion settings.

Chris

adwb · 02-11-2012, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

What color space do you have set, this is probably the issue

makes no difference forgot to mention that in the first post

adwb · 02-11-2012, 07:21 AM

Originally posted by ChrisJ

Lr and PS are not working in 8bit they work in 16bit, it's only when you save to jpeg that they convert from 16bit to 8bit. They have far more headroom when open on your computer. They are also working in Abobe colour space which has a wider gamut of colour than jpeg. Save a Raw from LR or PS as a jpeg then compare that with the jpeg conversion of the same raw image from the camera. Any differences you see are being applied in the in camera conversion settings.

Chris

thats the whole point of my post, why is the in camera conversion doing this colour shift?
btw I have tested this with my K10d and the raw/jpeg combination when viewed in LR look the same unlike the k5 which when viewed in Lr the raw is much the same as the K10d raw but the k5 jpeg has this auburn tint which the K10d jpeg does not.
for some reason the k5 is shifting the colour, the effect is the same as can be achieved in any mode by shifting the hue toward red

Anvh · 02-11-2012, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by ChrisJ

Lr and PS are not working in 8bit they work in 16bit, it's only when you save to jpeg that they convert from 16bit to 8bit. They have far more headroom when open on your computer. They are also working in Abobe colour space which has a wider gamut of colour than jpeg.

They aren't working in aRGB but in prophoto RGB, that's even a larger colour gamut.

Anvh · 02-11-2012, 08:02 AM

Originally posted by adwb

thats the whole point of my post, why is the in camera conversion doing this colour shift?
btw I have tested this with my K10d and the raw/jpeg combination when viewed in LR look the same unlike the k5 which when viewed in Lr the raw is much the same as the K10d raw but the k5 jpeg has this auburn tint which the K10d jpeg does not.
for some reason the k5 is shifting the colour, the effect is the same as can be achieved in any mode by shifting the hue toward red

In LR what kind of colour profile do you use, Adobe one or the embeded one?

adwb · 02-11-2012, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by Anvh

In LR what kind of colour profile do you use, Adobe one or the embeded one?

makes no difference

Anvh · 02-11-2012, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by adwb

makes no difference

Yes it does, certainly in the greens and reds just try it.

rhodopsin · 02-11-2012, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by adwb

[...] the natural setting [...]

That's why. The 'Natural' setting applies a color curve. Is there a 'Neutral' setting?

adwb · 02-11-2012, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by Anvh

Yes it does, certainly in the greens and reds just try it.

I ment it does not stop or affect the faulty tint as previously explained

adwb · 02-11-2012, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by rhodopsin

That's why. The 'Natural' setting applies a color curve. Is there a 'Neutral' setting?

you have lost me please explain further?
there are as I'm sure you know various settings than can be utilised ranging from bright to b/w . in this lot is a neutral/natural setting which its self has all its sliders centred. that is what the camera was set to when this in camera jpeg conversion applies the tint.

rhodopsin · 02-11-2012, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by adwb

you have lost me please explain further?
there are as I'm sure you know various settings than can be utilised ranging from bright to b/w . in this lot is a neutral/natural setting which its self has all its sliders centred. that is what the camera was set to when this in camera jpeg conversion applies the tint.

I should have written color 'profile' not color 'curve'. The color profile 'Natural' is applied during raw conversion to jpeg, altering the raw colors according to a profile algorithm. Use the Pentax raw conversion software which has the color profile settings, choose 'Natural' and you'll see the same color-shift as the camera gives.

02-11-2012, 05:11 AM	#1
adwb Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bristol UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,636	jpeg only colour shift I normally use all my bodies in raw and recently had to set up for a client who specifically wanted some head/shoulder shots to show off her hair. So I dug out my foam head and a hair piece to test the lighting set up I had in mind. For speed sake I set my k5 to jpeg so I could quickly check the results just by plugging in the card and using windows to view the results. the results were a bit odd, the hair colour on the camera LCD looked correct but on the PC looked to have auburn tint [the hair piece is a mousy blond] I turned off highlights and shadows , made sure the natural setting was on and tried again, with same result. I changed back to raw/jpeg and the LCD still looks the same [no surprise there] but when viewed in LR the raw hair colour is correct and the jpeg is still wrong. it's not a problem , really as i don't use jpeg normally but I just wonder what is causing it. Oh yes, also, creating a jpeg from the raw either in Lr or PS or using jpeg from raw utility, all give a jpeg with the correct hair colour as well. it is only the jpeg from the camera that is wrong. I also double checked the natural setting to make sure it was centred and not off set at all. Any ideas any one?

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02-11-2012, 05:18 AM	#2
ChrisJ Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Eckington, Derbyshire UK Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 316	When you shoot jpeg the camera is making all the adjustments as it converts from the original Raw file from the sensor, you can alter the way it does this in camera so it mimics the settings you have in your Raw converter usually by altering saturation, contrast and colour, but it's a hit and miss affair. It's probably quicker just to use your normal Raw workflow, then you know what your going to get. Don't forget that jpeg 'dumps' all the data that won't fit inside the 8bit jpeg container so it's bound to look different. Chris

02-11-2012, 05:25 AM	#3
adwb Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bristol UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,636 Original Poster	Originally posted by ChrisJ When you shoot jpeg the camera is making all the adjustments as it converts from the original Raw file from the sensor, you can alter the way it does this in camera so it mimics the settings you have in your Raw converter usually by altering saturation, contrast and colour, but it's a hit and miss affair. It's probably quicker just to use your normal Raw workflow, then you know what your going to get. Don't forget that jpeg 'dumps' all the data that won't fit inside the 8bit jpeg container so it's bound to look different. Chris yes sure but that does not explain the in camera jpeg converter giving a different and incorrect result compaired to 3 other software converters that convert the same raw correctly.

02-11-2012, 06:05 AM	#4
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by adwb yes sure but that does not explain the in camera jpeg converter giving a different and incorrect result compaired to 3 other software converters that convert the same raw correctly. What color space do you have set, this is probably the issue

02-11-2012, 06:38 AM	#5
ChrisJ Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Eckington, Derbyshire UK Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 316	Lr and PS are not working in 8bit they work in 16bit, it's only when you save to jpeg that they convert from 16bit to 8bit. They have far more headroom when open on your computer. They are also working in Abobe colour space which has a wider gamut of colour than jpeg. Save a Raw from LR or PS as a jpeg then compare that with the jpeg conversion of the same raw image from the camera. Any differences you see are being applied in the in camera conversion settings. Chris

02-11-2012, 07:05 AM	#6
adwb Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bristol UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,636 Original Poster	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge What color space do you have set, this is probably the issue makes no difference forgot to mention that in the first post

02-11-2012, 07:21 AM	#7
adwb Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bristol UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,636 Original Poster	Originally posted by ChrisJ Lr and PS are not working in 8bit they work in 16bit, it's only when you save to jpeg that they convert from 16bit to 8bit. They have far more headroom when open on your computer. They are also working in Abobe colour space which has a wider gamut of colour than jpeg. Save a Raw from LR or PS as a jpeg then compare that with the jpeg conversion of the same raw image from the camera. Any differences you see are being applied in the in camera conversion settings. Chris thats the whole point of my post, why is the in camera conversion doing this colour shift? btw I have tested this with my K10d and the raw/jpeg combination when viewed in LR look the same unlike the k5 which when viewed in Lr the raw is much the same as the K10d raw but the k5 jpeg has this auburn tint which the K10d jpeg does not. for some reason the k5 is shifting the colour, the effect is the same as can be achieved in any mode by shifting the hue toward red

02-11-2012, 08:01 AM	#8
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by ChrisJ Lr and PS are not working in 8bit they work in 16bit, it's only when you save to jpeg that they convert from 16bit to 8bit. They have far more headroom when open on your computer. They are also working in Abobe colour space which has a wider gamut of colour than jpeg. They aren't working in aRGB but in prophoto RGB, that's even a larger colour gamut.

02-11-2012, 08:02 AM	#9
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by adwb thats the whole point of my post, why is the in camera conversion doing this colour shift? btw I have tested this with my K10d and the raw/jpeg combination when viewed in LR look the same unlike the k5 which when viewed in Lr the raw is much the same as the K10d raw but the k5 jpeg has this auburn tint which the K10d jpeg does not. for some reason the k5 is shifting the colour, the effect is the same as can be achieved in any mode by shifting the hue toward red In LR what kind of colour profile do you use, Adobe one or the embeded one?

02-11-2012, 08:27 AM	#10
adwb Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bristol UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,636 Original Poster	Originally posted by Anvh In LR what kind of colour profile do you use, Adobe one or the embeded one? makes no difference

02-11-2012, 10:11 AM	#11
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by adwb makes no difference Yes it does, certainly in the greens and reds just try it.

02-11-2012, 10:51 AM	#12
rhodopsin Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Deep Forest Posts: 643	Originally posted by adwb [...] the natural setting [...] That's why. The 'Natural' setting applies a color curve. Is there a 'Neutral' setting?

02-11-2012, 11:46 AM	#13
adwb Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bristol UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,636 Original Poster	Originally posted by Anvh Yes it does, certainly in the greens and reds just try it. I ment it does not stop or affect the faulty tint as previously explained

02-11-2012, 11:55 AM	#14
adwb Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bristol UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,636 Original Poster	Originally posted by rhodopsin That's why. The 'Natural' setting applies a color curve. Is there a 'Neutral' setting? you have lost me please explain further? there are as I'm sure you know various settings than can be utilised ranging from bright to b/w . in this lot is a neutral/natural setting which its self has all its sliders centred. that is what the camera was set to when this in camera jpeg conversion applies the tint.

02-11-2012, 12:20 PM	#15
rhodopsin Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Deep Forest Posts: 643	Originally posted by adwb you have lost me please explain further? there are as I'm sure you know various settings than can be utilised ranging from bright to b/w . in this lot is a neutral/natural setting which its self has all its sliders centred. that is what the camera was set to when this in camera jpeg conversion applies the tint. I should have written color 'profile' not color 'curve'. The color profile 'Natural' is applied during raw conversion to jpeg, altering the raw colors according to a profile algorithm. Use the Pentax raw conversion software which has the color profile settings, choose 'Natural' and you'll see the same color-shift as the camera gives.