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Class A · 02-28-2012, 04:55 AM

Jim also replied to my email. I'm very impressed that he took the time and provided some background information. Kudos to Jim!

However, of course, I still take issue with the findings. Here's hoping that Jim will reconsider the review after he had a look at the DxOMark raking where the K-5 sits at #6 (amongst tought FF competition) and the D300s at #38!

Also, it seems hard to believe that PC mag's three bullet "good" is the equivalent of Dpreview's "Gold Award" (which the K-5 received despite being evaluated as a semi-pro camera).

Docrwm · 02-28-2012, 05:39 AM

I call BS. When he's listing things at B&H he's a high toned Leica only shooter but when he gets emails from PentaxForums he's a long time Pentax shooter. Sorry, then there is the Hassy he stole from his dad and never returned. No, his writeup at PCMag tells it all - he inflated his role at B&H from that of cutting and pasting makers descriptions of their products onto the form for listing on their website into having written "thousands and thousands" of product descriptions and blogging for B&H when there were a few and none were...well....oh, never mind. Still call BS.

**boriscleto** · 02-28-2012, 05:45 AM

Originally posted by Docrwm

I call BS. When he's listing things at B&H he's a high toned Leica only shooter but when he gets emails from PentaxForums he's a long time Pentax shooter.

Could it be Ned Bunnell working under an alias?

Docrwm · 02-28-2012, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by boriscleto

Could it be Ned Bunnell working under an alias?

ROFLMAO!

**dcmsox2004** · 02-28-2012, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by luftfluss

The author is Jim_Fisher@pcmag.com

Here's the DxOMark page comparing the K-5 and D300s sensors: DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side

perhaps mr fisher will discount dxomark as it is created by pixies and fairies...

rerun · 02-29-2012, 04:37 AM

Originally posted by Docrwm

I call BS.

+1, in all terms.
There's no need to think "at least he let down to answer". Of course he answers when he knows he's caught. The only question is: caught for what.
A wannabe's writing? Advertisers puppet? Or just pure lack of knowledge about proper testing? Let's see.

He claims to compare sensors here.
What he actually compares: At which level an arbitrary trigger was kept. A trigger which is not differentiated between chroma and b/w noise (at least not in the review; don't know, if imatest separates those values). A trigger from an image in a lossy compression format. Created by an unknown JPEG engine. Feed by a noise suppression algorithm. Which is configurable, as he even admits himself.

I *never* regard people this much naive, so I tend to assume full intention on his side.

Zampel · 02-29-2012, 06:38 AM

Originally posted by gazonk

...and finds POOR high ISO performance? Are they nuts?

Not sure, but: German mag "Colorfoto" did a review of the K-5 December 2010 (see Pentax K-5 - Überholmanöver - colorfoto - Magnus.de, german) and they too had a strange (result) in higher ISO quality, but for ISO 400 only. IQ for ISO 100 was found extremely good, and even ISO 800 was considered better then ISO 400 (see table at the bottom of the article). But they also stated an IQ better than almost all competitors (except Canon) on higher ISOs (>=800).

Christian

Mister Horrible · 02-29-2012, 01:41 PM

You know, I been thinking about it, and every time someone posts a negative review of the K-5, there is much wailing and gnashing of teeth on these boards.

Remember when someone posted an average review on Amazon, and there was a virtual lynch mob ready to assemble?

Chillax. Not everyone's going to like the K5, the D800, or any other product that gets produced. I've even heard a few negative things said about the K-01, if you can believe that!

No one's reading cNet/PCMag -- (well, I wish that was a complete sentence right there, but ..) -- for their camera reviews anyway. So releax, grab a brewski, then go out and take pictures.

normhead · 02-29-2012, 02:04 PM

I look at that and think, what was he shooting... is it ever going to matter to me? I'm always looking for the best possible quality landscapes so, I'm always going to want to shoot at the cleanest ISO, and that's probably going to be the lowest one , not the highest one. My K20D though is useful to me right up to 800 ISO, and that works out really well for almost any shot. So more noise at 3200 ISO, I don't care. To some it may be important.... but if that's what brought down his rating... it's not of concern to me, or many others. It's good he wrote the review though because if you do plan to shoot high ISO you might want to take a look at that before you buy the camera. I enjoyed the review, I enjoyed his response, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand what's going on. You can never have too much information. If you shoot colour test patterns at every ISO up to 6400, you might not want this camera.

hmmmmm.... is there any money in that?

rerun · 02-29-2012, 05:25 PM

I think we don't reject the test due to fanboyism. I cannot speak for others, but at least for me I regard the test not only as faulty, but actually as highly misleading. Reasons see above. I myself don't regard the K5 ISO capabilities as stellar as others do and am confident the K-5 applies noise reduction even to RAW files (which I highly dislike) at least from ISO 1600 - but what Jim wrote is simply BS.

Rupert · 02-29-2012, 06:46 PM

They thought Vista was one of the finest systems ever produced....what else do you need to know?

Regards!

mahuna · 03-02-2012, 01:12 AM

A review of the K-5 from PCMag is about as insightfulll to me as a K-5 review from Road & Track.

Docrwm · 03-02-2012, 05:59 AM

Originally posted by mahuna

A review of the K-5 from PCMag is about as insightfulll to me as a K-5 review from Road & Track.

You know, if one of R&T's photographers offered a review of the K-5 I'd be interested. But then again, they take pics of lots of moving things that go F-A-S-T so their input would be informed and might provide some insight.

cali92rs · 03-02-2012, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by Docrwm

You know, if one of R&T's photographers offered a review of the K-5 I'd be interested. But then again, they take pics of lots of moving things that go F-A-S-T so their input would be informed and might provide some insight.

One of my buddies used to be into racing his camaro and photography. So as his senior project for mechanical engineering, he designed and built a camera bracket that mounted to his car. It was actually a pretty cool piece

patrickt · 03-02-2012, 12:02 PM - **1 Like**

Personally, when I need a new computer I always go to Popular Photography for suggestions.

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02-28-2012, 04:55 AM	#31
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Jim also replied to my email. I'm very impressed that he took the time and provided some background information. Kudos to Jim! However, of course, I still take issue with the findings. Here's hoping that Jim will reconsider the review after he had a look at the DxOMark raking where the K-5 sits at #6 (amongst tought FF competition) and the D300s at #38! Also, it seems hard to believe that PC mag's three bullet "good" is the equivalent of Dpreview's "Gold Award" (which the K-5 received despite being evaluated as a semi-pro camera).

02-28-2012, 05:39 AM	#32
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	I call BS. When he's listing things at B&H he's a high toned Leica only shooter but when he gets emails from PentaxForums he's a long time Pentax shooter. Sorry, then there is the Hassy he stole from his dad and never returned. No, his writeup at PCMag tells it all - he inflated his role at B&H from that of cutting and pasting makers descriptions of their products onto the form for listing on their website into having written "thousands and thousands" of product descriptions and blogging for B&H when there were a few and none were...well....oh, never mind. Still call BS.

02-28-2012, 05:45 AM	#33
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,477	Originally posted by Docrwm I call BS. When he's listing things at B&H he's a high toned Leica only shooter but when he gets emails from PentaxForums he's a long time Pentax shooter. Could it be Ned Bunnell working under an alias?

02-28-2012, 05:50 AM	#34
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by boriscleto Could it be Ned Bunnell working under an alias? ROFLMAO!

02-28-2012, 09:44 AM	#35
dcmsox2004 Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: rhode island Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,522	Originally posted by luftfluss The author is Jim_Fisher@pcmag.com Here's the DxOMark page comparing the K-5 and D300s sensors: DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side perhaps mr fisher will discount dxomark as it is created by pixies and fairies...

02-29-2012, 04:37 AM	#36
rerun Inactive Account Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 12	Originally posted by Docrwm I call BS. +1, in all terms. There's no need to think "at least he let down to answer". Of course he answers when he knows he's caught. The only question is: caught for what. A wannabe's writing? Advertisers puppet? Or just pure lack of knowledge about proper testing? Let's see. He claims to compare sensors here. What he actually compares: At which level an arbitrary trigger was kept. A trigger which is not differentiated between chroma and b/w noise (at least not in the review; don't know, if imatest separates those values). A trigger from an image in a lossy compression format. Created by an unknown JPEG engine. Feed by a noise suppression algorithm. Which is configurable, as he even admits himself. I never regard people this much naive, so I tend to assume full intention on his side.

02-29-2012, 06:38 AM	#37
Zampel New Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 16	Originally posted by gazonk ...and finds POOR high ISO performance? Are they nuts? Not sure, but: German mag "Colorfoto" did a review of the K-5 December 2010 (see Pentax K-5 - Überholmanöver - colorfoto - Magnus.de, german) and they too had a strange (result) in higher ISO quality, but for ISO 400 only. IQ for ISO 100 was found extremely good, and even ISO 800 was considered better then ISO 400 (see table at the bottom of the article). But they also stated an IQ better than almost all competitors (except Canon) on higher ISOs (>=800). Christian

02-29-2012, 01:41 PM	#38
Mister Horrible Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 100	You know, I been thinking about it, and every time someone posts a negative review of the K-5, there is much wailing and gnashing of teeth on these boards. Remember when someone posted an average review on Amazon, and there was a virtual lynch mob ready to assemble? Chillax. Not everyone's going to like the K5, the D800, or any other product that gets produced. I've even heard a few negative things said about the K-01, if you can believe that! No one's reading cNet/PCMag -- (well, I wish that was a complete sentence right there, but ..) -- for their camera reviews anyway. So releax, grab a brewski, then go out and take pictures.

02-29-2012, 02:04 PM	#39
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	I look at that and think, what was he shooting... is it ever going to matter to me? I'm always looking for the best possible quality landscapes so, I'm always going to want to shoot at the cleanest ISO, and that's probably going to be the lowest one , not the highest one. My K20D though is useful to me right up to 800 ISO, and that works out really well for almost any shot. So more noise at 3200 ISO, I don't care. To some it may be important.... but if that's what brought down his rating... it's not of concern to me, or many others. It's good he wrote the review though because if you do plan to shoot high ISO you might want to take a look at that before you buy the camera. I enjoyed the review, I enjoyed his response, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand what's going on. You can never have too much information. If you shoot colour test patterns at every ISO up to 6400, you might not want this camera. hmmmmm.... is there any money in that?

02-29-2012, 05:25 PM	#40
rerun Inactive Account Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 12	I think we don't reject the test due to fanboyism. I cannot speak for others, but at least for me I regard the test not only as faulty, but actually as highly misleading. Reasons see above. I myself don't regard the K5 ISO capabilities as stellar as others do and am confident the K-5 applies noise reduction even to RAW files (which I highly dislike) at least from ISO 1600 - but what Jim wrote is simply BS.

02-29-2012, 06:46 PM	#41
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	They thought Vista was one of the finest systems ever produced....what else do you need to know? Regards!

03-02-2012, 01:12 AM	#42
mahuna New Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 7	A review of the K-5 from PCMag is about as insightfulll to me as a K-5 review from Road & Track.

03-02-2012, 05:59 AM	#43
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by mahuna A review of the K-5 from PCMag is about as insightfulll to me as a K-5 review from Road & Track. You know, if one of R&T's photographers offered a review of the K-5 I'd be interested. But then again, they take pics of lots of moving things that go F-A-S-T so their input would be informed and might provide some insight.

03-02-2012, 08:00 AM	#44
cali92rs Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 3,354	Originally posted by Docrwm You know, if one of R&T's photographers offered a review of the K-5 I'd be interested. But then again, they take pics of lots of moving things that go F-A-S-T so their input would be informed and might provide some insight. One of my buddies used to be into racing his camaro and photography. So as his senior project for mechanical engineering, he designed and built a camera bracket that mounted to his car. It was actually a pretty cool piece

03-02-2012, 12:02 PM - 1 Like	#45
patrickt Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Oaxaca, Mexico Posts: 247	Personally, when I need a new computer I always go to Popular Photography for suggestions.

PC Magazine tests K-5

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