Tilt-shift in upcoming houses? Just a tought i got..

Vanheden · 03-19-2012, 06:50 AM

Sorry if this is misplaced or out of the line in some way, but i was riding the train today thinking about how awsome the whole idea of a SR in the house instead of the lens realy is (and got myself down considering the consumer-friendly lens lineup in the 50/1.8ish range).

My tought went like this, the new GPS unit is realy great, following the sky without moving the camera, how cool is not that! And beeing able to mount any lens and still have the SR is a very very good sales point! What does it not cost in a system shange to get the same lineup with SR?

But... why not take it a step further? What if, in 2-3 generations, pentax presented a house (FF i do hope) that not only is WR, provides shake-restistance with ALL lenses, and as usual well below the canikon "brand pricing" but also adds the/some Tilk-Shift by the sensor and not in the lens.

Would that not be the "nail in the coffin" for the enthusiast consumer group considering canikon? Just imagen the lens lineup that would give!

Any developers reading this forum? Just a tought... Hope it becomes real. Can i clame royalty or do i have to patent it worldwide first? I better do that...

stanislav · 03-19-2012, 07:57 AM

Shift should be feasible already on K-5/7 possibly with a FW upgrade. The idea should be to manually control the possition of sensor, shifting it from the center point and turning off SR.

Now the question is just by how much the center position of sensor can be moved arround. If it is just a milimeter, then the tshift effect is negligable, however if it cab be moved by 8-10mm then the shift effect should be considerable.

Gimbal · 03-19-2012, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by stanislav

Shift should be feasible already on K-5/7 possibly with a FW upgrade. The idea should be to manually control the possition of sensor, shifting it from the center point and turning off SR.

We can already do that on the K5 (K7?), no need for firmware upgrades. The movement is fairly small though.

zapp · 03-22-2012, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by stanislav

Shift should be feasible already on K-5/7 possibly with a FW upgrade. The idea should be to manually control the possition of sensor, shifting it from the center point and turning off SR.

Now the question is just by how much the center position of sensor can be moved arround. If it is just a milimeter, then the tshift effect is negligable, however if it cab be moved by 8-10mm then the shift effect should be considerable.

Come on guys, it does not work.
Do you really think that SR moves the sensor up and down several mm in an instant of a second. Assume a couple pixels of movement that's it. Sensor tilt would be really difficult how do you get it back to zero tilt at the end? There are Shift/Tilt camera, there are toys and there are funny dreams. Pentax may excel in the toy area presenting anew lens everything else are happy dreams.

civiletti · 03-22-2012, 10:14 AM

It should be possible with a APS-C sensor and FF lenses to design a body with enough sensor shift to be useful. It would make the body bigger, though, which is un-Pentax-like.

philbaum · 03-22-2012, 10:25 AM

I've seen video's of the shifting Pentax sensor, and it was a lot more movement than i ever imagined.

One of the most under-mentioned advantages of Pentax K5 and i think K7, is the auto horizon leveling ability of the camera. I noticed soon after getting my K5, that i was doing a lot less PP correction of the horizon and thought that was odd. Then it occurred to me that i had turned on horizon leveling when i got the camera. It actually works quite well. You can turn off SR and still have auto horizon on, or you can turn both off. At some angles of tilt, the programming must say, this guy really wants things tilted so we aren't going to try anymore

Yes, inbody SR really has its uses!!!

zapp · 03-23-2012, 10:11 AM

Not everything that could be done really makes sense...
Tilting the sensor is completely different from tilting the camera!

Check out some of the Novoflex bellows for Tilt/Shift with longer focal length lenses - not many people buy them. Not many people will buy the a TS Pentax - keeping a TS sensor under control will a) overburden Pentax engineers, b) price will explode. And the result will still be a limited shift experience as comapred to real TS cameras. Start with other ideas first.

civiletti · 03-23-2012, 11:42 AM

Actually, in an SLR, tilting the sensor has advantages over tilting the lens:

- smaller lens image circle will suffice.
- the lens mount and mirror box are less likely to get in the way.

The disadvantage to rear tilt is that perspective changes.

03-19-2012, 06:50 AM	#1
Vanheden Inactive Account Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Vaasa Posts: 23	Tilt-shift in upcoming houses? Just a tought i got.. Sorry if this is misplaced or out of the line in some way, but i was riding the train today thinking about how awsome the whole idea of a SR in the house instead of the lens realy is (and got myself down considering the consumer-friendly lens lineup in the 50/1.8ish range). My tought went like this, the new GPS unit is realy great, following the sky without moving the camera, how cool is not that! And beeing able to mount any lens and still have the SR is a very very good sales point! What does it not cost in a system shange to get the same lineup with SR? But... why not take it a step further? What if, in 2-3 generations, pentax presented a house (FF i do hope) that not only is WR, provides shake-restistance with ALL lenses, and as usual well below the canikon "brand pricing" but also adds the/some Tilk-Shift by the sensor and not in the lens. Would that not be the "nail in the coffin" for the enthusiast consumer group considering canikon? Just imagen the lens lineup that would give! Any developers reading this forum? Just a tought... Hope it becomes real. Can i clame royalty or do i have to patent it worldwide first? I better do that...

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03-19-2012, 07:57 AM	#2
stanislav Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Stockholm Photos: Albums Posts: 125	Shift should be feasible already on K-5/7 possibly with a FW upgrade. The idea should be to manually control the possition of sensor, shifting it from the center point and turning off SR. Now the question is just by how much the center position of sensor can be moved arround. If it is just a milimeter, then the tshift effect is negligable, however if it cab be moved by 8-10mm then the shift effect should be considerable.

03-19-2012, 08:31 AM	#3
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Originally posted by stanislav Shift should be feasible already on K-5/7 possibly with a FW upgrade. The idea should be to manually control the possition of sensor, shifting it from the center point and turning off SR. We can already do that on the K5 (K7?), no need for firmware upgrades. The movement is fairly small though.

03-22-2012, 08:04 AM	#4
zapp Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,385	Originally posted by stanislav Shift should be feasible already on K-5/7 possibly with a FW upgrade. The idea should be to manually control the possition of sensor, shifting it from the center point and turning off SR. Now the question is just by how much the center position of sensor can be moved arround. If it is just a milimeter, then the tshift effect is negligable, however if it cab be moved by 8-10mm then the shift effect should be considerable. Come on guys, it does not work. Do you really think that SR moves the sensor up and down several mm in an instant of a second. Assume a couple pixels of movement that's it. Sensor tilt would be really difficult how do you get it back to zero tilt at the end? There are Shift/Tilt camera, there are toys and there are funny dreams. Pentax may excel in the toy area presenting anew lens everything else are happy dreams.

03-22-2012, 10:14 AM	#5
civiletti Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oregon Photos: Albums Posts: 1,435	It should be possible with a APS-C sensor and FF lenses to design a body with enough sensor shift to be useful. It would make the body bigger, though, which is un-Pentax-like.

03-22-2012, 10:25 AM	#6
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	I've seen video's of the shifting Pentax sensor, and it was a lot more movement than i ever imagined. One of the most under-mentioned advantages of Pentax K5 and i think K7, is the auto horizon leveling ability of the camera. I noticed soon after getting my K5, that i was doing a lot less PP correction of the horizon and thought that was odd. Then it occurred to me that i had turned on horizon leveling when i got the camera. It actually works quite well. You can turn off SR and still have auto horizon on, or you can turn both off. At some angles of tilt, the programming must say, this guy really wants things tilted so we aren't going to try anymore Yes, inbody SR really has its uses!!!

03-23-2012, 10:11 AM	#7
zapp Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,385	Not everything that could be done really makes sense... Tilting the sensor is completely different from tilting the camera! Check out some of the Novoflex bellows for Tilt/Shift with longer focal length lenses - not many people buy them. Not many people will buy the a TS Pentax - keeping a TS sensor under control will a) overburden Pentax engineers, b) price will explode. And the result will still be a limited shift experience as comapred to real TS cameras. Start with other ideas first.

03-23-2012, 11:42 AM	#8
civiletti Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oregon Photos: Albums Posts: 1,435	Actually, in an SLR, tilting the sensor has advantages over tilting the lens: - smaller lens image circle will suffice. - the lens mount and mirror box are less likely to get in the way. The disadvantage to rear tilt is that perspective changes.