Trying not to get upset...

robr7 · 05-28-2012, 08:45 PM

...but I just missed taking some nice shots of my daughters dancing with Cinderella and Prince Charming. Luckily the wife was ready with a P&S.

Down here at Disney and we've had some on and off showers because of the storm. Haven't been shooting in the rain but there has been once or twice we had to walk through spots of rain, with my K-5 strapped over my shoulder. Didn't worry about it.

First noticed a problem when taking some shots of the little princesses getting done up at a boutique for their big dinner. Shots were coming out foggy, wiped the lens off and still the same problem, took the lens off and found the inner glass was also foggy. Crap, never ran into that but at least the mirror and inside of the camera looks fine. Somewhat miffed but luckily the real photographers were there to cover the prep shots. Was hoping it was just Florida humidity.

But then as I continue to shoot, I find condensation and fog under my LCD protective glass and I realize I officially have a problem. I let the camera be.

Hours later the fog is still there under the LCD but the lens looks fine, camera appears to be working fine, started taking plenty of pictures, then... it happens again. Everything fogs up, at the wrong time.

So. Where do I start with this? Lens, camera, what do I inspect / look for to determine what happened or if something needs to be sent in?

reivax · 05-28-2012, 08:51 PM

I don't own a K5 so I know I won't be of any help, but I am sure people will be asking about the lens you were using. Was it a WR lens?

tigerzen · 05-28-2012, 08:53 PM

I work at disney world and all last week people with fogged up Nikons so its not just your pentax. Most of them had fogged up lenses. I would suggest getting some damprid to suck up the moisture in the camera. Humidity works on a different level than rain. It can penetrate anything including joint which is why a lot of people have joint pain in high humid weather.

**jatrax** · 05-28-2012, 09:03 PM

Were you in an air conditioned area before going out into the warm, humid air? I have seen this happen numerous times if you take a cold piece of metal or glass into warm humid air, the humidity condenses out as fog or dew on the cold surfaces. Any zoom lens, WR or not exchanges air with the outside world every time you zoom in or out. So if you are shooting outside in a humid environment you will draw in air that has the same humidity level as the outside air. As long as the lens / camera is the same temperature as ambient there is no problem. But if the camera / lens is significantly cooler than ambient, the warm humid air being drawn in WILL condense onto the inside of the camera / lens. Worse case is taking your gear from air conditioning (either car or building) into a warm humid environment. If you want to test this, put your eyeglasses or anything else glass in the refrigerator, when they are cold go outside into a warm humid environment and they will fog up. Same thing happens to the lens elements.

I was in Columbia last fall and spent about an hour in a very air conditioned building, When I went back outside my k-x and 16-50 were completely fogged up, took 20 plus minutes for it to warm up enough to see through. Try to get the camera warm, preferably in a dry environment.

robr7 · 05-28-2012, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by reivax

I don't own a K5 so I know I won't be of any help, but I am sure people will be asking about the lens you were using. Was it a WR lens?

Sorry, should've thought of including that, I had my DA* 16-50 mounted.

robr7 · 05-28-2012, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by tigerzen

I work at disney world and all last week people with fogged up Nikons so its not just your pentax. Most of them had fogged up lenses. I would suggest getting some damprid to suck up the moisture in the camera. Humidity works on a different level than rain. It can penetrate anything including joint which is why a lot of people have joint pain in high humid weather.

Will google damprid, Thanks.

I've run into humidity issues before with the DA* 16-50 lens on my K-5&7 in Aruba but I've never seen the inside lens get fogged up, nor condensation in my LCD. So, do we think this should be Ok then and just let the camera acclimate longer before use in tropical environments?

mickey · 05-28-2012, 09:19 PM

Interesting. I never had a problem with my k10 in Japan, and it gets really humid here in the summer.

derekkite · 05-28-2012, 09:24 PM

Standard procedure in the winter here. The key is acclimatizing the unit, and making sure your breathe doesn't make it worse. It is a royal pain when you look in the viewfinder and it fogs up due to the moisture coming off your eyes.

robr7 · 05-28-2012, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by jatrax

Any zoom lens, WR or not exchanges air with the outside world every time you zoom in or out. So if you are shooting outside in a humid environment you will draw in air that has the same humidity level as the outside air.

This makes plenty of sense to me - I don't remember my 40mm ever getting fogged up.

Originally posted by jatrax

As long as the lens / camera is the same temperature as ambient there is no problem. But if the camera / lens is significantly cooler than ambient, the warm humid air being drawn in WILL condense onto the inside of the camera / lens. Worse case is taking your gear from air conditioning (either car or building) into a warm humid environment.

Only problem with this is I believe it was the reverse, I was out for hours coming in. Perhaps it happened earlier in the day and it went unnoticed...

Has anyone had this happen to their K-5 LiveView LCD glass as well?

I appreciate the quick replies, making me feel a little better... perhaps the wife's pocket book helped shelter the P&S from this effect.

**jatrax** · 05-28-2012, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by robr7

Only problem with this is I believe it was the reverse, I was out for hours coming in.

Condensation happens when cool metal or glass comes into contact with warm humid air.

This can happen if you are outside in the winter and go into a warm humid house. Or it can happen if you are in air conditioning and go out into warm humid air. If your camera was cooler than the air it was exposed to you will get condensation.

I suspect you are correct about your wife's P&S but also, there is far less glass involved with that little camera so it will adjust to ambient temperature much faster. So maybe it did fog, but was clear by the time she used it. That 16-50 is just one huge chunk of glass.

When I am out in the winter shooting I leave the camera bag in the garage for a few hours when I come in so that it gradually warms up before I go into the house which has a higher humidity.

JohnX · 05-28-2012, 11:32 PM

It's worth getting your rear LCD checked,as I've read a small number of reports of rear-screen seal failure with dust appearing behind the screen where it's been 'sucked' in by lens action.

The fact that in this instance the inside of the LCD is fogging up points to the same issue, except the lens is 'sucking' in humid, not dusty, air.

**Schraubstock** · 05-29-2012, 12:30 AM - **1 Like**

Hi Rob

I have traveled in Cambodia a lot. In the wrong season there you get almost every day 40º C (and sometimes more) with a humidity of 100%. It feels like walking through liquid air.
The problem for any photographer; You step out of air conditioned hotels and all camera gear will be covered in moisture, instantly. And it is not just dew. It looks like fine mist or rain that settles everywhere. Once this happens it takes more than an hour to disappear. It can't be wiped because it will leave streaks. As well, all this water will/can cause some damage eventually I feel.

With this experience under my belt for my next trips I purchased a small heated pet blanket in which I wrap camera and lens overnight so the gear is warm enough for immediate action the moment I step out of the hotel in the morning. When I am entering a cool room during the day such as a restaurant I wrap the gear up in a towel so it stays warm.

Now, I know this is an extreme situation. But as I spent a reasonable amount of time in Cambodia it suited my activity extremely well. It probably is an overkill in your location but perhaps something to consider.

Greetings

Picture below: Glass delivery Cambodia style

robr7 · 05-29-2012, 05:14 AM

Thanks everyone... after some further inspection before heading off to bed I found some moisture under the mic flap, it was sealed well, never used actually... perhaps heated vapor exiting out the back as someone here mentioned? Also, forgot to mention or I didn't stress this, but I did get an hour's worth of normal shots in the banquet hall before it fogged up for the second time. Everything looks fine again this morning, I'll report back at the end of the day.

Wheatfield · 05-29-2012, 06:38 AM

Just remember that glass fogging over is always caused by a combination of temperature and humidity differential. Going from cold and dry (winter air or air conditioned building) into warm and humid (central heated building or warm humid day) has the potential to cause condensation to form.

**LaurenOE** · 05-29-2012, 07:06 AM

I live just a few miles north of Disney, and when I shoot in the summer, I always put my camera outside first - while still in it's bag -and let it acclimate. Another thing that you may not know, is that the humidity is especially high this week because of tropical storm Beryl (sp?) Right before Hurricanes and storms the humidity goes crazy down here.

05-28-2012, 08:45 PM	#1
robr7 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 88	Trying not to get upset... ...but I just missed taking some nice shots of my daughters dancing with Cinderella and Prince Charming. Luckily the wife was ready with a P&S. Down here at Disney and we've had some on and off showers because of the storm. Haven't been shooting in the rain but there has been once or twice we had to walk through spots of rain, with my K-5 strapped over my shoulder. Didn't worry about it. First noticed a problem when taking some shots of the little princesses getting done up at a boutique for their big dinner. Shots were coming out foggy, wiped the lens off and still the same problem, took the lens off and found the inner glass was also foggy. Crap, never ran into that but at least the mirror and inside of the camera looks fine. Somewhat miffed but luckily the real photographers were there to cover the prep shots. Was hoping it was just Florida humidity. But then as I continue to shoot, I find condensation and fog under my LCD protective glass and I realize I officially have a problem. I let the camera be. Hours later the fog is still there under the LCD but the lens looks fine, camera appears to be working fine, started taking plenty of pictures, then... it happens again. Everything fogs up, at the wrong time. So. Where do I start with this? Lens, camera, what do I inspect / look for to determine what happened or if something needs to be sent in?

05-28-2012, 08:53 PM	#3
tigerzen Forum Member Join Date: May 2008 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 84	bad bad humidity I work at disney world and all last week people with fogged up Nikons so its not just your pentax. Most of them had fogged up lenses. I would suggest getting some damprid to suck up the moisture in the camera. Humidity works on a different level than rain. It can penetrate anything including joint which is why a lot of people have joint pain in high humid weather.

05-29-2012, 12:30 AM - 1 Like	#12
Schraubstock Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,386	Hi Rob I have traveled in Cambodia a lot. In the wrong season there you get almost every day 40º C (and sometimes more) with a humidity of 100%. It feels like walking through liquid air. The problem for any photographer; You step out of air conditioned hotels and all camera gear will be covered in moisture, instantly. And it is not just dew. It looks like fine mist or rain that settles everywhere. Once this happens it takes more than an hour to disappear. It can't be wiped because it will leave streaks. As well, all this water will/can cause some damage eventually I feel. With this experience under my belt for my next trips I purchased a small heated pet blanket in which I wrap camera and lens overnight so the gear is warm enough for immediate action the moment I step out of the hotel in the morning. When I am entering a cool room during the day such as a restaurant I wrap the gear up in a towel so it stays warm. Now, I know this is an extreme situation. But as I spent a reasonable amount of time in Cambodia it suited my activity extremely well. It probably is an overkill in your location but perhaps something to consider. Greetings Picture below: Glass delivery Cambodia style Last edited by Schraubstock; 09-16-2012 at 05:34 PM.

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05-28-2012, 08:51 PM	#2
reivax Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: California Posts: 826	I don't own a K5 so I know I won't be of any help, but I am sure people will be asking about the lens you were using. Was it a WR lens?

05-28-2012, 09:03 PM	#4
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Were you in an air conditioned area before going out into the warm, humid air? I have seen this happen numerous times if you take a cold piece of metal or glass into warm humid air, the humidity condenses out as fog or dew on the cold surfaces. Any zoom lens, WR or not exchanges air with the outside world every time you zoom in or out. So if you are shooting outside in a humid environment you will draw in air that has the same humidity level as the outside air. As long as the lens / camera is the same temperature as ambient there is no problem. But if the camera / lens is significantly cooler than ambient, the warm humid air being drawn in WILL condense onto the inside of the camera / lens. Worse case is taking your gear from air conditioning (either car or building) into a warm humid environment. If you want to test this, put your eyeglasses or anything else glass in the refrigerator, when they are cold go outside into a warm humid environment and they will fog up. Same thing happens to the lens elements. I was in Columbia last fall and spent about an hour in a very air conditioned building, When I went back outside my k-x and 16-50 were completely fogged up, took 20 plus minutes for it to warm up enough to see through. Try to get the camera warm, preferably in a dry environment.

05-28-2012, 09:09 PM	#5
robr7 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 88 Original Poster	Originally posted by reivax I don't own a K5 so I know I won't be of any help, but I am sure people will be asking about the lens you were using. Was it a WR lens? Sorry, should've thought of including that, I had my DA* 16-50 mounted.

05-28-2012, 09:17 PM	#6
robr7 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 88 Original Poster	Originally posted by tigerzen I work at disney world and all last week people with fogged up Nikons so its not just your pentax. Most of them had fogged up lenses. I would suggest getting some damprid to suck up the moisture in the camera. Humidity works on a different level than rain. It can penetrate anything including joint which is why a lot of people have joint pain in high humid weather. Will google damprid, Thanks. I've run into humidity issues before with the DA* 16-50 lens on my K-5&7 in Aruba but I've never seen the inside lens get fogged up, nor condensation in my LCD. So, do we think this should be Ok then and just let the camera acclimate longer before use in tropical environments?

05-28-2012, 09:19 PM	#7
mickey Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,146	Interesting. I never had a problem with my k10 in Japan, and it gets really humid here in the summer.

05-28-2012, 09:24 PM	#8
derekkite Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nelson B.C. Posts: 3,782	Standard procedure in the winter here. The key is acclimatizing the unit, and making sure your breathe doesn't make it worse. It is a royal pain when you look in the viewfinder and it fogs up due to the moisture coming off your eyes.

05-28-2012, 09:29 PM	#9
robr7 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 88 Original Poster	Originally posted by jatrax Any zoom lens, WR or not exchanges air with the outside world every time you zoom in or out. So if you are shooting outside in a humid environment you will draw in air that has the same humidity level as the outside air. This makes plenty of sense to me - I don't remember my 40mm ever getting fogged up. Originally posted by jatrax As long as the lens / camera is the same temperature as ambient there is no problem. But if the camera / lens is significantly cooler than ambient, the warm humid air being drawn in WILL condense onto the inside of the camera / lens. Worse case is taking your gear from air conditioning (either car or building) into a warm humid environment. Only problem with this is I believe it was the reverse, I was out for hours coming in. Perhaps it happened earlier in the day and it went unnoticed... Has anyone had this happen to their K-5 LiveView LCD glass as well? I appreciate the quick replies, making me feel a little better... perhaps the wife's pocket book helped shelter the P&S from this effect.

05-28-2012, 10:50 PM	#10
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by robr7 Only problem with this is I believe it was the reverse, I was out for hours coming in. Condensation happens when cool metal or glass comes into contact with warm humid air. This can happen if you are outside in the winter and go into a warm humid house. Or it can happen if you are in air conditioning and go out into warm humid air. If your camera was cooler than the air it was exposed to you will get condensation. I suspect you are correct about your wife's P&S but also, there is far less glass involved with that little camera so it will adjust to ambient temperature much faster. So maybe it did fog, but was clear by the time she used it. That 16-50 is just one huge chunk of glass. When I am out in the winter shooting I leave the camera bag in the garage for a few hours when I come in so that it gradually warms up before I go into the house which has a higher humidity.

05-28-2012, 11:32 PM	#11
JohnX Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: London Posts: 1,116	It's worth getting your rear LCD checked,as I've read a small number of reports of rear-screen seal failure with dust appearing behind the screen where it's been 'sucked' in by lens action. The fact that in this instance the inside of the LCD is fogging up points to the same issue, except the lens is 'sucking' in humid, not dusty, air.

05-29-2012, 05:14 AM	#13
robr7 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 88 Original Poster	Thanks everyone... after some further inspection before heading off to bed I found some moisture under the mic flap, it was sealed well, never used actually... perhaps heated vapor exiting out the back as someone here mentioned? Also, forgot to mention or I didn't stress this, but I did get an hour's worth of normal shots in the banquet hall before it fogged up for the second time. Everything looks fine again this morning, I'll report back at the end of the day.

05-29-2012, 06:38 AM	#14
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Just remember that glass fogging over is always caused by a combination of temperature and humidity differential. Going from cold and dry (winter air or air conditioned building) into warm and humid (central heated building or warm humid day) has the potential to cause condensation to form.

05-29-2012, 07:06 AM	#15
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690	I live just a few miles north of Disney, and when I shoot in the summer, I always put my camera outside first - while still in it's bag -and let it acclimate. Another thing that you may not know, is that the humidity is especially high this week because of tropical storm Beryl (sp?) Right before Hurricanes and storms the humidity goes crazy down here.