Pentax K-5 IIs First Impressions, sample comparative photos

cbaytan · 10-28-2012, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by beholder3

That seem to be the most recent Version of (free) RawTherapee.

This is not a scientific test but most likely you will see in the real life.
More crops from the RAW shots of the same site, guess which is which:
...............To me it's the end of story.

Attached Images

JinDesu · 10-28-2012, 06:09 PM

How... blown up is that....

But I do agree with your analysis. With the sharpest lenses, we can already see the difference. But the ultimate difference comes from sharpening in post.

Smeggypants · 10-28-2012, 06:28 PM

Just arrived at this thread. The Initial comparison shots of the building are flawed. Different exposure. different colour different time of day. They should be taken down. The second comparison shots of the 'Play it safe' plastic sign shows the difference comparable to the differences I've seen elsewhere and I trust them more.

There is definitely a slight improvement from removing the AA filter.

David&karen · 10-28-2012, 08:11 PM

We have a question: We have tried the DA*55mm f1.4 on the K5 and the AF is really imprecise at it's best. that was with three copies tested. Now beyond user error etc., could someone try that lens on one of the K5II cameras to see if the new AF is any better with that lens? We really like the lens for the sealing and the way it draws, but the AF issues kept us from buying one(we tested 2 in the store, borrowed a friends one). Thanks a bunch!!

David

froeschle · 10-29-2012, 05:11 AM

Brightness / exposure, contrast and color cast seem to slightly vary between the images of the K-5 and the K-5 IIs. Comparisons with exact the same settings (ISO, time, aperture, manual WB) would be of interest. Is this discrepancy due to the (lack of the) Bayer AA-Filter? Maybe a K-5 II could help to answer this question.

Looking at the coin, the images of the K-5 IIs (*) imho look oversharpened. Are these additional "scratches" (**) real information? There also might be some false colors in the highlights. The letters "EURO CENT", the lines and stars on the coin look more natural in the K-5 pictures. I wonder, how unstructured and monochrome areas would look like in comparison.

(*) If the same sharpening settings were applied to all images, then this would strongly suggest not to do so.
(**) The small structures, which are mainly aligned in horizontal/vertical direction.

Anvh · 10-29-2012, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by froeschle

Brightness / exposure, contrast and color cast seem to slightly vary between the images of the K-5 and the K-5 IIs. Comparisons with exact the same settings (ISO, time, aperture, manual WB) would be of interest. Is this discrepancy due to the (lack of the) Bayer AA-Filter? Maybe a K-5 II could help to answer this question.

Bayer filter is the RGB filter infront of the sensor so that we get a coloured picture, that is something else then the Anti Aliasing filter.

So the mkIIs has a bayer filter.

The AA filter basically blur the image about 1 pixels maybe less, this is done so that artifact cause by the Bayer filter won't show up.

The blur is so small that it has little to do with the exposure or contrast of the photo.

regor · 10-29-2012, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by froeschle

Brightness / exposure, contrast and color cast seem to slightly vary between the images of the K-5 and the K-5 IIs. ...
Looking at the coin, the images of the K-5 IIs (*) imho look oversharpened.
...

I agree. K5IIs has more contrast, and more sharpening artifacts, which makes the comparison seem somewhat suspicious in some ways. Don't know what is the cause of the differences, but I can't fail to wonder what would the K5II images look like in comparison to the K5IIs if you were to raise the contrast and sharpening a bit.

froeschle · 10-30-2012, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Bayer filter is the RGB filter infront of the sensor so that we get a coloured picture, that is something else then the Anti Aliasing filter.
So the mkIIs has a bayer filter.
The AA filter basically blur the image about 1 pixels maybe less, this is done so that artifact cause by the Bayer filter won't show up.
The blur is so small that it has little to do with the exposure or contrast of the photo.

See e.g. the so-called AA filter is no anti-alias filter and "AA-Filter".
If you replace the birefringent crystals by something else, this also could change other parameters. Additionally, even Pentax spreads some curious information about the ("removement" of the) filter: the Nikon D800E has not removed the filter, but it has been disabled. We've completely eliminated.

creampuff · 10-30-2012, 06:23 AM

Originally posted by David&karen

We have a question: We have tried the DA*55mm f1.4 on the K5 and the AF is really imprecise at it's best. that was with three copies tested. Now beyond user error etc., could someone try that lens on one of the K5II cameras to see if the new AF is any better with that lens? We really like the lens for the sealing and the way it draws, but the AF issues kept us from buying one(we tested 2 in the store, borrowed a friends one). Thanks a bunch!!

David

Had the same issue with my K-5 and my DA* 55mm as well. Sent both lens and camera to Pentax Japan. They replaced the sensor/SR unit on the camera but didn't need to calibrate the lens. Camera and lens focused fine after that but still can't touch the K-30 in terms of focus accuracy, especially indoors. Imo the K-5's focus accuracy shifts over time, needing re-calibration or in my case a complete replacement of the sensor unit. For this reason I ditched my trusty K-5. With the improved AF shown on the K-30 and newer K-5 II and K-5 IIs, I'll likely pick up a K-5 IIs but I'll never touch a K-5 again.

yomer · 10-30-2012, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by creampuff

Had the same issue with my K-5 and my DA* 55mm as well. Sent both lens and camera to Pentax Japan. They replaced the sensor/SR unit on the camera but didn't need to calibrate the lens. Camera and lens focused fine after that but still can't touch the K-30 in terms of focus accuracy, especially indoors. Imo the K-5's focus accuracy shifts over time, needing re-calibration or in my case a complete replacement of the sensor unit. For this reason I ditched my trusty K-5. With the improved AF shown on the K-30 and newer K-5 II and K-5 IIs, I'll likely pick up a K-5 IIs but I'll never touch a K-5 again.

And this is why I want to buy the K5II instead of the K5. The K5, even with it's great value, has had this and other small inconveniences through its lifespan. The probability of getting these with the new model, I believe are greatly reduced. What you are paying for is peace of mind and a newer and tweaked design.

creampuff · 10-30-2012, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by yomer

And this is why I want to buy the K5II instead of the K5. The K5, even with it's great value, has had this and other small inconveniences through its lifespan. The probability of getting these with the new model, I believe are greatly reduced. What you are paying for is peace of mind and a newer and tweaked design.

The K-5 may have been the onetime flagship APS-C camera for Pentax but that's 2 years ago. It's already obsolete and superceded by the cheaper K-30 and newer K-5 II and K-5 IIs with new tech improvements. The only reason why some still think about getting or holding on to the K-5 is because they're constrained by budget and the K-5 still seems like great value. But what's the point of having a sensor with a terrific dynamic range if it can't even focus for nuts indoors under incandescent lighting? Wide dynamic range and resolution being negated by "cannot make it" AF is something I won't accept and just spending 5 minutes with the K-30 confirmed to me why I had to ditch my K-5 because it was already outdone by the K-30 AF wise. The new AF algorithm in the K-30, no doubt in the new K-5 II and K-5 IIs (as well as the K-01 and Q new firmware updates) means there's no more place for a K-5 in my bag. It was good while it lasted... but it's time to move on.

cbaytan · 10-30-2012, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by creampuff

The K-5 ....... It's already obsolete and superceded by the cheaper K-30

1-Best APS-C camera around is obsolete.
2-14 bit best APS-C is superceded by a, same sensor but 12 bit simpler camera.

I am really curious about the logic behind these comments.

ogl · 10-30-2012, 08:27 AM

K-5IIs -

converted from CS5 by default without NR with smart sharpness 100@0.7

There are full-size photos there - push the picture and you will see the link on full-size

CtrlAltDel_ru · 10-30-2012, 11:24 PM

creampuff, yomer have you received information that K-5II(s) has better focusing with 55* ?

Are you sure that Pentax K-5II(s) has same or better AF than K-30 has? K-30 has a new processor (720p@60/FocusPeaking/H.264) What if Pentax K-5II(s) has SAFOX IX+ (K-5) but with -3EV feature? In this case K-5II(s) will focus with the same precision as K-5 in good and bad light. Who cares about -3EV if SAFOX XI works in good light as SAFOX IX+

It is just my fear about K-5II(s). Please somebody test K-5II(s) with 50@1.4, 55@1.4, 31@1.8

ogl · 10-31-2012, 03:45 AM

Originally posted by CtrlAltDel_ru

It is just my fear about K-5II(s). Please somebody test K-5II(s) with 50@1.4, 55@1.4, 31@1.8

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5/203586-k-5-vs-k-5-iis-comparis...st-thread.html

it will be

10-28-2012, 08:11 PM	#79
David&karen Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 327	*DA55mm 1.4 AF** We have a question: We have tried the DA*55mm f1.4 on the K5 and the AF is really imprecise at it's best. that was with three copies tested. Now beyond user error etc., could someone try that lens on one of the K5II cameras to see if the new AF is any better with that lens? We really like the lens for the sealing and the way it draws, but the AF issues kept us from buying one(we tested 2 in the store, borrowed a friends one). Thanks a bunch!! David

10-29-2012, 05:11 AM	#80
froeschle Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 552	Brightness / exposure, contrast and color cast seem to slightly vary between the images of the K-5 and the K-5 IIs. Comparisons with exact the same settings (ISO, time, aperture, manual WB) would be of interest. Is this discrepancy due to the (lack of the) Bayer AA-Filter? Maybe a K-5 II could help to answer this question. Looking at the coin, the images of the K-5 IIs () imho look oversharpened. Are these additional "scratches" () real information? There also might be some false colors in the highlights. The letters "EURO CENT", the lines and stars on the coin look more natural in the K-5 pictures. I wonder, how unstructured and monochrome areas would look like in comparison. () If the same sharpening settings were applied to all images, then this would strongly suggest not to do so. (*) The small structures, which are mainly aligned in horizontal/vertical direction. Last edited by froeschle; 10-29-2012 at 05:38 AM.*

10-30-2012, 08:27 AM	#88
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	K-5IIs - converted from CS5 by default without NR with smart sharpness 100@0.7 There are full-size photos there - push the picture and you will see the link on full-size Last edited by ogl; 10-30-2012 at 08:35 AM.

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10-28-2012, 03:27 PM	#76
cbaytan Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trabzon/Turkey Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,010	Originally posted by beholder3 That seem to be the most recent Version of (free) RawTherapee. This is not a scientific test but most likely you will see in the real life. More crops from the RAW shots of the same site, guess which is which: ...............To me it's the end of story. Attached Images

10-28-2012, 06:09 PM	#77
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	How... blown up is that.... But I do agree with your analysis. With the sharpest lenses, we can already see the difference. But the ultimate difference comes from sharpening in post.

10-28-2012, 06:28 PM	#78
Smeggypants Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,536	Just arrived at this thread. The Initial comparison shots of the building are flawed. Different exposure. different colour different time of day. They should be taken down. The second comparison shots of the 'Play it safe' plastic sign shows the difference comparable to the differences I've seen elsewhere and I trust them more. There is definitely a slight improvement from removing the AA filter.

10-29-2012, 10:34 AM	#81
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by froeschle Brightness / exposure, contrast and color cast seem to slightly vary between the images of the K-5 and the K-5 IIs. Comparisons with exact the same settings (ISO, time, aperture, manual WB) would be of interest. Is this discrepancy due to the (lack of the) Bayer AA-Filter? Maybe a K-5 II could help to answer this question. Bayer filter is the RGB filter infront of the sensor so that we get a coloured picture, that is something else then the Anti Aliasing filter. So the mkIIs has a bayer filter. The AA filter basically blur the image about 1 pixels maybe less, this is done so that artifact cause by the Bayer filter won't show up. The blur is so small that it has little to do with the exposure or contrast of the photo.

10-29-2012, 12:10 PM	#82
regor Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Victoria, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 356	Originally posted by froeschle Brightness / exposure, contrast and color cast seem to slightly vary between the images of the K-5 and the K-5 IIs. ... Looking at the coin, the images of the K-5 IIs (*) imho look oversharpened. ... I agree. K5IIs has more contrast, and more sharpening artifacts, which makes the comparison seem somewhat suspicious in some ways. Don't know what is the cause of the differences, but I can't fail to wonder what would the K5II images look like in comparison to the K5IIs if you were to raise the contrast and sharpening a bit.

10-30-2012, 02:23 AM	#83
froeschle Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 552	Quote: Bayer filter is the RGB filter infront of the sensor so that we get a coloured picture, that is something else then the Anti Aliasing filter. So the mkIIs has a bayer filter. The AA filter basically blur the image about 1 pixels maybe less, this is done so that artifact cause by the Bayer filter won't show up. The blur is so small that it has little to do with the exposure or contrast of the photo. See e.g. the so-called AA filter is no anti-alias filter and "AA-Filter". If you replace the birefringent crystals by something else, this also could change other parameters. Additionally, even Pentax spreads some curious information about the ("removement" of the) filter: the Nikon D800E has not removed the filter, but it has been disabled. We've completely eliminated.

10-30-2012, 06:23 AM	#84
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	Originally posted by David&karen We have a question: We have tried the DA55mm f1.4 on the K5 and the AF is really imprecise at it's best. that was with three copies tested. Now beyond user error etc., could someone try that lens on one of the K5II cameras to see if the new AF is any better with that lens? We really like the lens for the sealing and the way it draws, but the AF issues kept us from buying one(we tested 2 in the store, borrowed a friends one). Thanks a bunch!! David Had the same issue with my K-5 and my DA 55mm as well. Sent both lens and camera to Pentax Japan. They replaced the sensor/SR unit on the camera but didn't need to calibrate the lens. Camera and lens focused fine after that but still can't touch the K-30 in terms of focus accuracy, especially indoors. Imo the K-5's focus accuracy shifts over time, needing re-calibration or in my case a complete replacement of the sensor unit. For this reason I ditched my trusty K-5. With the improved AF shown on the K-30 and newer K-5 II and K-5 IIs, I'll likely pick up a K-5 IIs but I'll never touch a K-5 again.

10-30-2012, 06:30 AM	#85
yomer Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 37	Originally posted by creampuff Had the same issue with my K-5 and my DA* 55mm as well. Sent both lens and camera to Pentax Japan. They replaced the sensor/SR unit on the camera but didn't need to calibrate the lens. Camera and lens focused fine after that but still can't touch the K-30 in terms of focus accuracy, especially indoors. Imo the K-5's focus accuracy shifts over time, needing re-calibration or in my case a complete replacement of the sensor unit. For this reason I ditched my trusty K-5. With the improved AF shown on the K-30 and newer K-5 II and K-5 IIs, I'll likely pick up a K-5 IIs but I'll never touch a K-5 again. And this is why I want to buy the K5II instead of the K5. The K5, even with it's great value, has had this and other small inconveniences through its lifespan. The probability of getting these with the new model, I believe are greatly reduced. What you are paying for is peace of mind and a newer and tweaked design.

10-30-2012, 06:47 AM	#86
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	Originally posted by yomer And this is why I want to buy the K5II instead of the K5. The K5, even with it's great value, has had this and other small inconveniences through its lifespan. The probability of getting these with the new model, I believe are greatly reduced. What you are paying for is peace of mind and a newer and tweaked design. The K-5 may have been the onetime flagship APS-C camera for Pentax but that's 2 years ago. It's already obsolete and superceded by the cheaper K-30 and newer K-5 II and K-5 IIs with new tech improvements. The only reason why some still think about getting or holding on to the K-5 is because they're constrained by budget and the K-5 still seems like great value. But what's the point of having a sensor with a terrific dynamic range if it can't even focus for nuts indoors under incandescent lighting? Wide dynamic range and resolution being negated by "cannot make it" AF is something I won't accept and just spending 5 minutes with the K-30 confirmed to me why I had to ditch my K-5 because it was already outdone by the K-30 AF wise. The new AF algorithm in the K-30, no doubt in the new K-5 II and K-5 IIs (as well as the K-01 and Q new firmware updates) means there's no more place for a K-5 in my bag. It was good while it lasted... but it's time to move on.

10-30-2012, 07:37 AM	#87
cbaytan Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trabzon/Turkey Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,010	Originally posted by creampuff The K-5 ....... It's already obsolete and superceded by the cheaper K-30 1-Best APS-C camera around is obsolete. 2-14 bit best APS-C is superceded by a, same sensor but 12 bit simpler camera. I am really curious about the logic behind these comments.

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10-30-2012, 11:24 PM	#89
CtrlAltDel_ru New Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 20	creampuff, yomer have you received information that K-5II(s) has better focusing with 55* ? Are you sure that Pentax K-5II(s) has same or better AF than K-30 has? K-30 has a new processor (720p@60/FocusPeaking/H.264) What if Pentax K-5II(s) has SAFOX IX+ (K-5) but with -3EV feature? In this case K-5II(s) will focus with the same precision as K-5 in good and bad light. Who cares about -3EV if SAFOX XI works in good light as SAFOX IX+ It is just my fear about K-5II(s). Please somebody test K-5II(s) with 50@1.4, 55@1.4, 31@1.8

10-31-2012, 03:45 AM	#90
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by CtrlAltDel_ru It is just my fear about K-5II(s). Please somebody test K-5II(s) with 50@1.4, 55@1.4, 31@1.8 https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5/203586-k-5-vs-k-5-iis-comparis...st-thread.html it will be