Why doesn't Pentax try to give us a real video mode ?

userage · 01-15-2013, 04:49 AM

Originally posted by kadajawi

You can already press a button to fix the exposure. How on earth can it be too hard? If Pentax would reply and say there is a technical reason for that, fine. But so far.... Nothing.

Now if Pentax could also offer us ProRes or even CinemaDNG... But of course that requires much more effort. That would benefit stills too, since write speeds would have to be improved. Or high quality codecs only when tethered to a computer/external drive. BlackMagic offers this, and another 16mm camera too. But they are more expensive and have smallish sensors.

Rolling shutter is not Pentax' problem, is it? The sensor comes from Sony, it is mostly a matter of buying the right parts.

Giving the option to all cameras to use the actual SR system would be good, rather than using digital IS with all the associated problems.

MJPEG is quite OK, there is not much to do on the codec front. Maybe offer a flat curve that is a bit like what BlackMagic offers. Though it might already exist, have to play with. Basically a setting that creates a video that is better to grade, for those who want to.

Anyway there are many possible improvements that seem to be possible in firmware. Things that were added by MagicLantern for example... By people outside of Canon! Without access to the source code I guess. If they can do it it can't be too much work for someone at Pentax, can it? Pentax also has all this old beautiful glass that would lend itself to video production.

Shooting in 'muted' is best I feel for grading later.

Anvh · 01-15-2013, 07:12 AM

Originally posted by userage

I don't see how hardware is going to affect that. Instead of metering the scene at all times, the user sets the parameters. Seems easier to implement as well.

Is there an email address we can use to get in contact with someone at Pentax?

*sighs* the hardware in the K5 mkII is not 100% the same as in the K5 so they had to change the firmware regardless.
So it's not as simpel as using the k5 firmware like you made it out to be.

Got it now?

Anvh · 01-15-2013, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by kadajawi

Rolling shutter is not Pentax' problem, is it? The sensor comes from Sony, it is mostly a matter of buying the right parts.

MJPEG is quite OK, there is not much to do on the codec front. Maybe offer a flat curve that is a bit like what BlackMagic offers. Though it might already exist, have to play with. Basically a setting that creates a video that is better to grade, for those who want to.

Anyway there are many possible improvements that seem to be possible in firmware. Things that were added by MagicLantern for example... By people outside of Canon! Without access to the source code I guess. If they can do it it can't be too much work for someone at Pentax, can it? Pentax also has all this old beautiful glass that would lend itself to video production.

Rolling shutter is surely a problem with pentax, it's a problem with most if not all CMOS snesors, CCD is much better in this regards.
Beside the sensor overheat quite fast...

Hmm MJPEG is really okay at the level DSLR are right now but the more profesional features you're going to put in that will then also need to grow.
You are not going to complain about image quality and the finer details of a DSLR and then shoot in JPEG...

It's not that simple, people outside canon don't need to give you any type of warranty, Canon and Pentax however does. Therefore progress is slower since they need to test it more.

Anvh · 01-15-2013, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by kadajawi

LoBlackMagic at the moment. Knowing how much was recorded and how much space is left? Nah. Formating and deleting files in camera? Nah. Accurate battery indicator? Nah. Knowing which f stop was set? Nah. Replacing the battery? Nah. The list of things that are missing right now are quite amusing.

Have you seen the new firmware?

Gimbal · 01-15-2013, 07:26 AM

He obviously meant that the software part needed to manually control the shutter speed is not affected by the differences in hardware. That part (if it existed) would most probably not have to change one bit.

You set the shutter time, the aperture and the iso, and the exposure will be whatever, and it is all feed to the video chip as usual. No I don't think it's hard, I think it's a choice they have done for whatever reason.

userage · 01-15-2013, 07:36 AM

Originally posted by Anvh

*sighs* the hardware in the K5 mkII is not 100% the same as in the K5 so they had to change the firmware regardless.
So it's not as simpel as using the k5 firmware like you made it out to be.

Got it now?

The majority of the hardware is the same, it has the same processor, most of the firmware doesn't even have to be touched.

I don't know why your sighing, you can't escape that they were lazy with it.

Originally posted by Anvh

Rolling shutter is surely a problem with pentax, it's a problem with most if not all CMOS snesors, CCD is much better in this regards.
Beside the sensor overheat quite fast...

Hmm MJPEG is really okay at the level DSLR are right now but the more profesional features you're going to put in that will then also need to grow.
You are not going to complain about image quality and the finer details of a DSLR and then shoot in JPEG...

It's not that simple, people outside canon don't need to give you any type of warranty, Canon and Pentax however does. Therefore progress is slower since they need to test it more.

How is it a Pentax problem? Some sensors read out slower than others, how is Pentax going to change that apart from building their own sensors? CCDs have much slower read out, they do not have rolling shutter but they can suffer from tearing instead.

Are you expecting them to put RAW video recording in? The MJPEG in Pentax is pretty good in terms of quality compared to other cameras, only problem is massive file sizes.

It cant be that slow, Canon done it pretty quick. Pentax already have done it in newer models, exposure settings are independent to codec encoding, they have no excuse really.

Anvh · 01-15-2013, 08:59 AM

userage i'm replying to an message so please take that message into account when you reply

userage · 01-15-2013, 09:04 AM

Originally posted by Anvh

userage i'm replying to an message so please take that message into account when you reply

Sorry I just had this absurd reasoning thinking we were all part of this discussion. :l

Anvh · 01-15-2013, 09:13 AM

That was not what i was saying.
You're asking about things where the comment isn't about or where you can find the answer in the comment i'm replying to.

I just don't feel like repeating everything because you can easily find the answers to your questions already.

I've already repeated myself more then enough times for you...

userage · 01-15-2013, 09:53 AM

What? I didn't ask any questions

Anvh · 01-15-2013, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by Gimbal

He obviously meant that the software part needed to manually control the shutter speed is not affected by the differences in hardware. That part (if it existed) would most probably not have to change one bit.

No he didn't meant that, here is the full post i rsponded to.

Originally posted by userage

I think laziness is the key, I mean what difference is in the K5 II and original except the AF system? They literally never touched anything else.

I said that they changed more hardware and also had to change the firmware, because he said they copied the firmware simpy from the old on in comment before that.

I wasn't talking about the firmware features at this point anymore but everything in total.

Hopefully that clears it up a bit.

Anvh · 01-15-2013, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by userage

What? I didn't ask any questions

There are 3 question marks in your comment.

userage · 01-15-2013, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by Anvh

No he didn't meant that, here is the full post i rsponded to.

I said that they changed more hardware and also had to change the firmware, because he said they copied the firmware simpy from the old on in comment before that.

I wasn't talking about the firmware features at this point anymore but everything in total.

Hopefully that clears it up a bit.

You are one confused guy.

Here is the convo..

____________________________________

me : Resources? How hard is it for them to update the K5 with manual video control. The K5 has better quality than the Canons (not sure about after hack), all were asking for is manul control. That would straight away put the K5 in line with them if not ahead.

The K01 and K30 have nice control but mediocre (at best) quality.

you: It's not that simple.

They put it in the K30 and the K-01 but not in the K5 mkII...
Reason?

me: I think laziness is the key, I mean what difference is in the K5 II and original except the AF system? They literally never touched anything else.

you: There are also some hardware changes as far as i know, so it isn't that simple either if that's the case.

me: I don't see how hardware is going to affect that. Instead of metering the scene at all times, the user sets the parameters. Seems easier to implement as well.

_______________________________________

What Gimbal said was correct, I did mean that...

Now please quote me for when I said they copied the firmware over.

You should really read properly before you post.

userage · 01-15-2013, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by Anvh

There are 3 question marks in your comment.

Rhetorical questions.. *Excluding the one about RAW

Tom S. · 01-15-2013, 11:02 AM

The thread has run it's course and no longer serves any fuction other than arguing. I'm closing it.

01-15-2013, 10:43 AM	#146
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by Gimbal He obviously meant that the software part needed to manually control the shutter speed is not affected by the differences in hardware. That part (if it existed) would most probably not have to change one bit. No he didn't meant that, here is the full post i rsponded to. Originally posted by userage I think laziness is the key, I mean what difference is in the K5 II and original except the AF system? They literally never touched anything else. I said that they changed more hardware and also had to change the firmware, because he said they copied the firmware simpy from the old on in comment before that. I wasn't talking about the firmware features at this point anymore but everything in total. Hopefully that clears it up a bit. Last edited by Anvh; 01-15-2013 at 10:48 AM.

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01-15-2013, 04:49 AM	#136
userage Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 198	Originally posted by kadajawi You can already press a button to fix the exposure. How on earth can it be too hard? If Pentax would reply and say there is a technical reason for that, fine. But so far.... Nothing. Now if Pentax could also offer us ProRes or even CinemaDNG... But of course that requires much more effort. That would benefit stills too, since write speeds would have to be improved. Or high quality codecs only when tethered to a computer/external drive. BlackMagic offers this, and another 16mm camera too. But they are more expensive and have smallish sensors. Rolling shutter is not Pentax' problem, is it? The sensor comes from Sony, it is mostly a matter of buying the right parts. Giving the option to all cameras to use the actual SR system would be good, rather than using digital IS with all the associated problems. MJPEG is quite OK, there is not much to do on the codec front. Maybe offer a flat curve that is a bit like what BlackMagic offers. Though it might already exist, have to play with. Basically a setting that creates a video that is better to grade, for those who want to. Anyway there are many possible improvements that seem to be possible in firmware. Things that were added by MagicLantern for example... By people outside of Canon! Without access to the source code I guess. If they can do it it can't be too much work for someone at Pentax, can it? Pentax also has all this old beautiful glass that would lend itself to video production. Shooting in 'muted' is best I feel for grading later.

01-15-2013, 07:12 AM	#137
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by userage I don't see how hardware is going to affect that. Instead of metering the scene at all times, the user sets the parameters. Seems easier to implement as well. Is there an email address we can use to get in contact with someone at Pentax? sighs the hardware in the K5 mkII is not 100% the same as in the K5 so they had to change the firmware regardless. So it's not as simpel as using the k5 firmware like you made it out to be. Got it now?

01-15-2013, 07:19 AM	#138
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by kadajawi Rolling shutter is not Pentax' problem, is it? The sensor comes from Sony, it is mostly a matter of buying the right parts. MJPEG is quite OK, there is not much to do on the codec front. Maybe offer a flat curve that is a bit like what BlackMagic offers. Though it might already exist, have to play with. Basically a setting that creates a video that is better to grade, for those who want to. Anyway there are many possible improvements that seem to be possible in firmware. Things that were added by MagicLantern for example... By people outside of Canon! Without access to the source code I guess. If they can do it it can't be too much work for someone at Pentax, can it? Pentax also has all this old beautiful glass that would lend itself to video production. Rolling shutter is surely a problem with pentax, it's a problem with most if not all CMOS snesors, CCD is much better in this regards. Beside the sensor overheat quite fast... Hmm MJPEG is really okay at the level DSLR are right now but the more profesional features you're going to put in that will then also need to grow. You are not going to complain about image quality and the finer details of a DSLR and then shoot in JPEG... It's not that simple, people outside canon don't need to give you any type of warranty, Canon and Pentax however does. Therefore progress is slower since they need to test it more.

01-15-2013, 07:20 AM	#139
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by kadajawi LoBlackMagic at the moment. Knowing how much was recorded and how much space is left? Nah. Formating and deleting files in camera? Nah. Accurate battery indicator? Nah. Knowing which f stop was set? Nah. Replacing the battery? Nah. The list of things that are missing right now are quite amusing. Have you seen the new firmware?

01-15-2013, 07:26 AM	#140
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	He obviously meant that the software part needed to manually control the shutter speed is not affected by the differences in hardware. That part (if it existed) would most probably not have to change one bit. You set the shutter time, the aperture and the iso, and the exposure will be whatever, and it is all feed to the video chip as usual. No I don't think it's hard, I think it's a choice they have done for whatever reason.

01-15-2013, 07:36 AM	#141
userage Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 198	Originally posted by Anvh sighs the hardware in the K5 mkII is not 100% the same as in the K5 so they had to change the firmware regardless. So it's not as simpel as using the k5 firmware like you made it out to be. Got it now? The majority of the hardware is the same, it has the same processor, most of the firmware doesn't even have to be touched. I don't know why your sighing, you can't escape that they were lazy with it. Originally posted by Anvh Rolling shutter is surely a problem with pentax, it's a problem with most if not all CMOS snesors, CCD is much better in this regards. Beside the sensor overheat quite fast... Hmm MJPEG is really okay at the level DSLR are right now but the more profesional features you're going to put in that will then also need to grow. You are not going to complain about image quality and the finer details of a DSLR and then shoot in JPEG... It's not that simple, people outside canon don't need to give you any type of warranty, Canon and Pentax however does. Therefore progress is slower since they need to test it more. How is it a Pentax problem? Some sensors read out slower than others, how is Pentax going to change that apart from building their own sensors? CCDs have much slower read out, they do not have rolling shutter but they can suffer from tearing instead. Are you expecting them to put RAW video recording in? The MJPEG in Pentax is pretty good in terms of quality compared to other cameras, only problem is massive file sizes. It cant be that slow, Canon done it pretty quick. Pentax already have done it in newer models, exposure settings are independent to codec encoding, they have no excuse really.

01-15-2013, 08:59 AM	#142
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	userage i'm replying to an message so please take that message into account when you reply

01-15-2013, 09:04 AM	#143
userage Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 198	Originally posted by Anvh userage i'm replying to an message so please take that message into account when you reply Sorry I just had this absurd reasoning thinking we were all part of this discussion. :l

01-15-2013, 09:13 AM	#144
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	That was not what i was saying. You're asking about things where the comment isn't about or where you can find the answer in the comment i'm replying to. I just don't feel like repeating everything because you can easily find the answers to your questions already. I've already repeated myself more then enough times for you...

01-15-2013, 09:53 AM	#145
userage Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 198	What? I didn't ask any questions

01-15-2013, 10:50 AM	#147
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by userage What? I didn't ask any questions There are 3 question marks in your comment.

01-15-2013, 10:53 AM	#148
userage Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 198	Originally posted by Anvh No he didn't meant that, here is the full post i rsponded to. I said that they changed more hardware and also had to change the firmware, because he said they copied the firmware simpy from the old on in comment before that. I wasn't talking about the firmware features at this point anymore but everything in total. Hopefully that clears it up a bit. You are one confused guy. Here is the convo.. ____________________________________ me : Resources? How hard is it for them to update the K5 with manual video control. The K5 has better quality than the Canons (not sure about after hack), all were asking for is manul control. That would straight away put the K5 in line with them if not ahead. The K01 and K30 have nice control but mediocre (at best) quality. you: It's not that simple. They put it in the K30 and the K-01 but not in the K5 mkII... Reason? me: I think laziness is the key, I mean what difference is in the K5 II and original except the AF system? They literally never touched anything else. you: There are also some hardware changes as far as i know, so it isn't that simple either if that's the case. me: I don't see how hardware is going to affect that. Instead of metering the scene at all times, the user sets the parameters. Seems easier to implement as well. _______________________________________ What Gimbal said was correct, I did mean that... Now please quote me for when I said they copied the firmware over. You should really read properly before you post.

01-15-2013, 10:54 AM	#149
userage Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 198	Originally posted by Anvh There are 3 question marks in your comment. Rhetorical questions.. *Excluding the one about RAW

01-15-2013, 11:02 AM	#150
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	The thread has run it's course and no longer serves any fuction other than arguing. I'm closing it.