Terrible noise!

ltded · 02-19-2013, 07:43 PM

Check the link for some samples of high ISO shots.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5/160287-iso-5000-10000-shots.html

wolffy · 02-19-2013, 07:51 PM

Here is a shot from the Cody, WY night rodeo shot with a K5 at ISO 25600 sure there is some noise but I got the shot, 1/500 sec I had a D3100 and I am telling you it cant do this!

audiobomber · 02-19-2013, 08:22 PM

Reset all the menus back to factory defaults. The K-5 files should be cleaner, if they're not, you've done something to undermine the performance.

wombat2go · 02-19-2013, 09:23 PM

Are you guys basing your comments on the 100 kB shots in the OP or do you have access to the real files?

SKwan · 02-19-2013, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by pugsypoogirl

I shoot a lot of gigs so high iso is good for me, and I shot them with my nikon kit lens without any problems at all. Maybe I thought I would be able to jump from one to the other without any problems but the images seem so different! frustrated but wont give up!

Frankly speaking, I cannot identify terrible noises from both photos! I note that the 1st photo provides more details on shadow areas and the 2nd has got a higher contrast and less details.

If you like photos in relatively higher contrast, suggest to turn off the shadow correction and/or set a higher contrast.

repaap · 02-20-2013, 12:10 AM

It might be also that nikon has some NR applied in shot in camera. It reduces noise, but also detail. I think it is possible to have with pentax too(NR on). But as others have mentioned getting exposure right is making it more easy to get cleaner shot. It goes especially in dark enviroment + artificial and mixed light. What you had for dog shot.

And next time try closer range and 35-40mm setting for kit lens + f 5.6 - 7...Maybe even bigger iso if nessesary.

Originally posted by pugsypoogirl

No worries, this is just one shot of hundreds, and all sorts of subjects and all sorts of settings, no shot is without noise? noise that never appeared with my nikon even at the highest iso's so was expecting much better but so far I can't match the nikon no matter which settings I use?

jpyykonen · 02-20-2013, 02:48 AM

According to exif it seems like K-5 image is originally PEF and D3100 is JPG. Then:

-K-5 has no noise reduction vs. D3100 noise reduction is set to "High" (named "gain control" in exif)
-K-5 is shot with "exposure bias" (exposure compensation) -1 so to get even exposure with D3100 it needs to be "pushed" 1 EV which increases noise
-As K-5 image has been originally PEF, OP should tell which RAW converter is used to make the JPG (or is it developed in camera?)
-OP should also tell if there is any post-processing made to these images

So taking into account the previous facts, the D3100 image may well be "ridiculously better". K-5 is "advanced" camera and D3100 is entry level camera. With K-5 you need to know what you are doing, especially in low light. If you don't, entry level models take "better pictures" (especially out-of-the-box). IMO you should check the things many have suggested and experiment and learn more. K-5 is terrific tool which can produce very nice images even in very low light. I have shot thousands on pictures at ISO 6400-12800 and those can be very good if processed right.

**eaglem** · 02-20-2013, 02:56 AM

High ISO 5,000

EXIF Sub IFD

Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/125 second ===> 0.008 second
Lens F-Number / F-Stop = 14/5 ===> ƒ/2.8
Exposure Program = n/a (0)
ISO Speed Ratings = 5000
EXIF Version = 0230
Original Date/Time = 2012:12:17 18:10:20
Digitization Date/Time = 2012:12:17 18:10:20
Components Configuration = 0x01,0x02,0x03,0x00 / YCbCr
Shutter Speed Value (APEX) = 49471/7102
Shutter Speed (Exposure Time) = 1/125 second
Aperture Value (APEX) = 24361/8200
Aperture = ƒ/2.8
Exposure Bias (EV) = 0/1 ===> 0
Metering Mode = pattern / multi-segment (5)
Flash = Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
Focal Length = 10/1 mm ===> 10 mm
FlashPix Version = 0100
Colour Space = sRGB (1)
Image Width = 800 pixels
Image Height = 530 pixels
Image Sensing Method = one-chip color area sensor (2)
Image Source = 0x03,0x00,0x00,0x00
Scene Type = directly photographed image
Custom Rendered = normal process (0)
Exposure Mode = auto exposure (0)
White Balance = auto (0)
Focal Length in 35mm Film = 15
Scene Capture Type = standard (0)
Contrast = hard (2)
Saturation = normal (0)
Sharpness = hard (2)
Subject Distance Range = distant view (3)

**eaglem** · 02-20-2013, 03:01 AM

High ISO 51,200

EXIF Sub IFD

Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/180 second ===> 0.00556 second
Lens F-Number / F-Stop = 22/1 ===> ƒ/22
Exposure Program = n/a (0)
ISO Speed Ratings = 51200
EXIF Version = 0230
Original Date/Time = 2013:01:24 16:33:54
Digitization Date/Time = 2013:01:24 16:33:54
Components Configuration = 0x01,0x02,0x03,0x00 / YCbCr
Shutter Speed Value (APEX) = 27128/3621
Shutter Speed (Exposure Time) = 1/180 second
Aperture Value (APEX) = 21655/2428
Aperture = ƒ/22
Exposure Bias (EV) = 0/1 ===> 0
Metering Mode = pattern / multi-segment (5)
Flash = Flash fired, compulsory flash mode
Focal Length = 105/1 mm ===> 105 mm
FlashPix Version = 0100
Colour Space = sRGB (1)
Image Width = 733 pixels
Image Height = 800 pixels
Image Sensing Method = one-chip color area sensor (2)
Image Source = 0x03,0x00,0x00,0x00
Scene Type = directly photographed image
Custom Rendered = normal process (0)
Exposure Mode = auto exposure (0)
White Balance = auto (0)
Focal Length in 35mm Film = 157
Scene Capture Type = standard (0)
Contrast = hard (2)
Saturation = normal (0)
Sharpness = hard (2)
Subject Distance Range = close view (2)

In my opinion for what it's worth, the Pentax handles high ISO as well if not better than the Nikon.

goubejp · 02-20-2013, 03:32 AM

Dog portrait... 1600 iso as yours to compare; jpeg out of the camera without additional post processing; may I suggest to make a try with defaults factory settings

pugsypoogirl · 02-20-2013, 04:50 AM

Hi guys, Just to let you know that I did a firmware update which has appeared to have solved the problem, I can now shoot up to 12800 with no where near as much noise that was appearing at a much lower iso (especially colour noise). The images I am getting now are more like I expected from the k5 as I did a lot research before buying! woohoo! Happy girl, maybe now I can get some sleep!

pugsypoogirl · 02-20-2013, 04:55 AM

Originally posted by pugsypoogirl

Hi guys, Just to let you know that I did a firmware update which has appeared to have solved the problem, I can now shoot up to 12800 with no where near as much noise that was appearing at a much lower iso (especially colour noise). The images I am getting now are more like I expected from the k5 as I did a lot research before buying! woohoo! Happy girl, maybe now I can get some sleep!

And a quick note to let you all know how much I appreciate you taking the time to reply, I am impressed and have read all posts, trying to soak in as much info as possible!

pugsypoogirl · 02-20-2013, 04:56 AM

Originally posted by goubejp

Dog portrait... 1600 iso as yours to compare; jpeg out of the camera without additional post processing; may I suggest to make a try with defaults factory settings

Gorgeous!

awaldram · 02-20-2013, 06:43 AM

Just a few observations on the k5 shot technically.

1 shot -1 EV so in effect 3200 after PP
2 because -1EV when taking shot will have been Exposed to the left dragging the signal into the noise floor another stop extra noise
3 the shot is underexposed anyway

So because of decisions you took whilst taking the image the camera is effectivle shooting with a 2 stop disadvantage to the Nikon given this I think it does extremly well.

mysterick · 02-20-2013, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by pugsypoogirl

Thanks to you all for replying, I know the two shots are not great or comparable but the nikon is still so much smoother. I have shots all different settings etc.. but the nikon pics are always smoother and the pentax grainy( which I feel comes across in the comparisons). This may be due to the pentax showing greater detail in pics? maybe i just need to get to grips with the camera better? was just wondering if anyone has had any issues like this?

Beginning to smell like a troll.

02-19-2013, 07:51 PM	#17
wolffy Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Saint Paul, MN USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 63	rodeo Here is a shot from the Cody, WY night rodeo shot with a K5 at ISO 25600 sure there is some noise but I got the shot, 1/500 sec I had a D3100 and I am telling you it cant do this!

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02-19-2013, 07:43 PM	#16
ltded New Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Manila Posts: 6	Check the link for some samples of high ISO shots. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5/160287-iso-5000-10000-shots.html

02-19-2013, 08:22 PM	#18
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Reset all the menus back to factory defaults. The K-5 files should be cleaner, if they're not, you've done something to undermine the performance.

02-19-2013, 09:23 PM	#19
wombat2go Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Michigan Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,207	Are you guys basing your comments on the 100 kB shots in the OP or do you have access to the real files?

02-19-2013, 10:36 PM	#20
SKwan Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Hong Kong Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 95	Originally posted by pugsypoogirl I shoot a lot of gigs so high iso is good for me, and I shot them with my nikon kit lens without any problems at all. Maybe I thought I would be able to jump from one to the other without any problems but the images seem so different! frustrated but wont give up! Frankly speaking, I cannot identify terrible noises from both photos! I note that the 1st photo provides more details on shadow areas and the 2nd has got a higher contrast and less details. If you like photos in relatively higher contrast, suggest to turn off the shadow correction and/or set a higher contrast.

02-20-2013, 12:10 AM	#21
repaap Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,242	It might be also that nikon has some NR applied in shot in camera. It reduces noise, but also detail. I think it is possible to have with pentax too(NR on). But as others have mentioned getting exposure right is making it more easy to get cleaner shot. It goes especially in dark enviroment + artificial and mixed light. What you had for dog shot. And next time try closer range and 35-40mm setting for kit lens + f 5.6 - 7...Maybe even bigger iso if nessesary. Originally posted by pugsypoogirl No worries, this is just one shot of hundreds, and all sorts of subjects and all sorts of settings, no shot is without noise? noise that never appeared with my nikon even at the highest iso's so was expecting much better but so far I can't match the nikon no matter which settings I use?

02-20-2013, 02:48 AM	#22
jpyykonen Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tampere, Finland Posts: 191	According to exif it seems like K-5 image is originally PEF and D3100 is JPG. Then: -K-5 has no noise reduction vs. D3100 noise reduction is set to "High" (named "gain control" in exif) -K-5 is shot with "exposure bias" (exposure compensation) -1 so to get even exposure with D3100 it needs to be "pushed" 1 EV which increases noise -As K-5 image has been originally PEF, OP should tell which RAW converter is used to make the JPG (or is it developed in camera?) -OP should also tell if there is any post-processing made to these images So taking into account the previous facts, the D3100 image may well be "ridiculously better". K-5 is "advanced" camera and D3100 is entry level camera. With K-5 you need to know what you are doing, especially in low light. If you don't, entry level models take "better pictures" (especially out-of-the-box). IMO you should check the things many have suggested and experiment and learn more. K-5 is terrific tool which can produce very nice images even in very low light. I have shot thousands on pictures at ISO 6400-12800 and those can be very good if processed right.

02-20-2013, 02:56 AM	#23
eaglem Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Perth Western Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 43,141	High ISO 5,000 EXIF Sub IFD Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/125 second ===> 0.008 second Lens F-Number / F-Stop = 14/5 ===> ƒ/2.8 Exposure Program = n/a (0) ISO Speed Ratings = 5000 EXIF Version = 0230 Original Date/Time = 2012:12:17 18:10:20 Digitization Date/Time = 2012:12:17 18:10:20 Components Configuration = 0x01,0x02,0x03,0x00 / YCbCr Shutter Speed Value (APEX) = 49471/7102 Shutter Speed (Exposure Time) = 1/125 second Aperture Value (APEX) = 24361/8200 Aperture = ƒ/2.8 Exposure Bias (EV) = 0/1 ===> 0 Metering Mode = pattern / multi-segment (5) Flash = Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode Focal Length = 10/1 mm ===> 10 mm FlashPix Version = 0100 Colour Space = sRGB (1) Image Width = 800 pixels Image Height = 530 pixels Image Sensing Method = one-chip color area sensor (2) Image Source = 0x03,0x00,0x00,0x00 Scene Type = directly photographed image Custom Rendered = normal process (0) Exposure Mode = auto exposure (0) White Balance = auto (0) Focal Length in 35mm Film = 15 Scene Capture Type = standard (0) Contrast = hard (2) Saturation = normal (0) Sharpness = hard (2) Subject Distance Range = distant view (3)

02-20-2013, 03:01 AM	#24
eaglem Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Perth Western Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 43,141	High ISO 51,200 EXIF Sub IFD Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/180 second ===> 0.00556 second Lens F-Number / F-Stop = 22/1 ===> ƒ/22 Exposure Program = n/a (0) ISO Speed Ratings = 51200 EXIF Version = 0230 Original Date/Time = 2013:01:24 16:33:54 Digitization Date/Time = 2013:01:24 16:33:54 Components Configuration = 0x01,0x02,0x03,0x00 / YCbCr Shutter Speed Value (APEX) = 27128/3621 Shutter Speed (Exposure Time) = 1/180 second Aperture Value (APEX) = 21655/2428 Aperture = ƒ/22 Exposure Bias (EV) = 0/1 ===> 0 Metering Mode = pattern / multi-segment (5) Flash = Flash fired, compulsory flash mode Focal Length = 105/1 mm ===> 105 mm FlashPix Version = 0100 Colour Space = sRGB (1) Image Width = 733 pixels Image Height = 800 pixels Image Sensing Method = one-chip color area sensor (2) Image Source = 0x03,0x00,0x00,0x00 Scene Type = directly photographed image Custom Rendered = normal process (0) Exposure Mode = auto exposure (0) White Balance = auto (0) Focal Length in 35mm Film = 157 Scene Capture Type = standard (0) Contrast = hard (2) Saturation = normal (0) Sharpness = hard (2) Subject Distance Range = close view (2) In my opinion for what it's worth, the Pentax handles high ISO as well if not better than the Nikon.

02-20-2013, 03:32 AM	#25
goubejp Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: France Photos: Albums Posts: 804	Dog portrait... 1600 iso as yours to compare; jpeg out of the camera without additional post processing; may I suggest to make a try with defaults factory settings

02-20-2013, 04:50 AM	#26
pugsypoogirl New Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8 Original Poster	Hi guys, Just to let you know that I did a firmware update which has appeared to have solved the problem, I can now shoot up to 12800 with no where near as much noise that was appearing at a much lower iso (especially colour noise). The images I am getting now are more like I expected from the k5 as I did a lot research before buying! woohoo! Happy girl, maybe now I can get some sleep!

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02-20-2013, 04:55 AM	#27
pugsypoogirl New Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8 Original Poster	Originally posted by pugsypoogirl Hi guys, Just to let you know that I did a firmware update which has appeared to have solved the problem, I can now shoot up to 12800 with no where near as much noise that was appearing at a much lower iso (especially colour noise). The images I am getting now are more like I expected from the k5 as I did a lot research before buying! woohoo! Happy girl, maybe now I can get some sleep! And a quick note to let you all know how much I appreciate you taking the time to reply, I am impressed and have read all posts, trying to soak in as much info as possible!

02-20-2013, 04:56 AM	#28
pugsypoogirl New Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8 Original Poster	Originally posted by goubejp Dog portrait... 1600 iso as yours to compare; jpeg out of the camera without additional post processing; may I suggest to make a try with defaults factory settings Gorgeous!

02-20-2013, 06:43 AM	#29
awaldram Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Hampshire Photos: Gallery Posts: 732	Just a few observations on the k5 shot technically. 1 shot -1 EV so in effect 3200 after PP 2 because -1EV when taking shot will have been Exposed to the left dragging the signal into the noise floor another stop extra noise 3 the shot is underexposed anyway So because of decisions you took whilst taking the image the camera is effectivle shooting with a 2 stop disadvantage to the Nikon given this I think it does extremly well.

02-20-2013, 11:14 AM	#30
mysterick Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 44266 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 567	Originally posted by pugsypoogirl Thanks to you all for replying, I know the two shots are not great or comparable but the nikon is still so much smoother. I have shots all different settings etc.. but the nikon pics are always smoother and the pentax grainy( which I feel comes across in the comparisons). This may be due to the pentax showing greater detail in pics? maybe i just need to get to grips with the camera better? was just wondering if anyone has had any issues like this? Beginning to smell like a troll.