K5ii or K5iis?

cats_five · 05-07-2013, 12:28 AM

Mostly I do two types of photography - ISO 100, f8, planted on a tripod and using a remote release, and I also try to take photos of cats. The K7 is fine for the former, but the improved ISO performance will help the later hugely as I use available light, and very rarely have much of it due to where I'm taking the photos.

Not sure if the extra for the 's' version will benefit me... It's a lot more money, £160 at anyone I would buy from e.g. a supplier who isn't selling grey imports.

Will have to switch to DNG as CS4 doesn't know about K5 but that won't be an issue.

hcc · 05-07-2013, 01:09 AM

Why not a K-5 simply. It is extremely good value if you can get one of the last new ones.

My 5 cents...

cats_five · 05-07-2013, 01:13 AM

Suspect the better focusing of the K5ii / iis would benefit the cat photography. But I have no idea until I try!

Anvh · 05-07-2013, 01:31 AM

Depends on the photography and how you will use the photos.

First off the use, if you only share images over the web and print small then you won't see any if much differnce.
The only type of photography that really benefit is landscape.

Now there is also a differnce in editing the photos.
the normal version needs more sharpening
S version will have more moire patterns mostly when photographing fabrics and such so you need to deal with that in post processing.

If you edit both cameras to their fullest you will be hard press to see a differnce or atleast a beneficial differnce.

**ak_kiwi** · 05-07-2013, 01:48 AM

Originally posted by cats_five

Suspect the better focusing of the K5ii / iis would benefit the cat photography. But I have no idea until I try!

Yes it would. I have just picked up a K5iis and I am testing it along side my standard K5. I have just shot some very low light indoor shots and the difference between the K5iis and K5 is like night and day in the focusing department. Yes the K5IIs is sharper, but as Anvh points out, the K5 /K5ii can duplicate the same sharpness with post processing.
(As an aside, it seems that AfterShot Pro does not support the raw files from the K5IIs. I have finally had to learn Lightroom which isn't all bad)

cats_five · 05-07-2013, 02:13 AM

Thought I explained the type of photography above - landscapes (tripod, ISO 100, f8, often a slow shutter speed) and photos of cats which are often indoors in low light levels. I print A4 and occasionally A3.

If the collective wisdom is that the iis only helps landscapes along then I don't need it - I'm happy with what I get.

badsykes · 05-07-2013, 02:13 AM

The K5II/S is rated to focus down to -3EV versus K5 that goes only down to 0EV

Docrwm · 05-07-2013, 04:38 AM

If low light AF is what you need than the K-5II is superior to the K-5. The K-5IIs may not be what you need and 160 pounds is a lot of money for a feature you don't need. the -3EV vs 0EV is a good bit and the photos that are being posted indicate that if you are taking pictures of a black cat outside without much light the difference is a useful one for you.

Class A · 05-07-2013, 06:54 AM

Originally posted by cats_five

If the collective wisdom is that the iis only helps landscapes along then I don't need it - I'm happy with what I get.

Obviously the effects of a missing Bayer-AA filter will have an impact on all shots (not just landscapes).

Given that the effects are not just images that require less capture-sharpening out of the box but are more likely to show colour moiré or other wrong colour effects, I'd definitely go for the K-5 II. Sensors using a Bayer matrix colour filter array need considerably more MP than the K-5 IIs has in order to let the lenses do all the necessary blurring work.

Regarding K-5 vs K-5II: I'd spent the extra coin on the K-5 II in order to avoid the low-light AF issues of the K-5. The K-5 II AF has other advantages as well, e.g., an f/2.8 AF sensor in the centre for better accuracy, use of more than one AF area in continuous AF, and I guess speedier operation in general (not sure about the latter though).

**Canada_Rockies** · 05-07-2013, 08:29 AM

There is no difference in the sensors. All three use the same sensor. The difference is in the AF engine and associated hardware, and in the case of the "s" variant, removal of the AA blurring filter. And that's all the AA filter is, it blurs four pixels (2g, 1r, 1b) together to avoid moire effects. There is plenty of free software that can be made to lightly blur either the whole image or just the area with moire if it pops up. My savings are towards the K5 IIs.

Anvh · 05-07-2013, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by Canada_Rockies

There is no difference in the sensors. All three use the same sensor. The difference is in the AF engine and associated hardware, and in the case of the "s" variant, removal of the AA blurring filter. And that's all the AA filter is, it blurs four pixels (2g, 1r, 1b) together to avoid moire effects. There is plenty of free software that can be made to lightly blur either the whole image or just the area with moire if it pops up. My savings are towards the K5 IIs.

You're going too fast here because there is a difference in blurring.

AA filter blurs the image before it's even captured so the information, is spread out over the pixels.
And with the information that falls on the pixels the pixel in the image is made by mixing the information together.
The false colour moire for example, you get a full red pixel, because the red pixel get expose but not the rest.
You can blur that red pixel but you're going to mix in the false colour with the rest so you need to blur more.

Cynog Ap Brychan · 05-07-2013, 08:58 AM

I can't understand why the IIs is £160 (around $240) more than the II, when it was only ever $100 more expensive in the USA. The huge price difference is what's holding me back from buying a K-5 IIs and sticking with my K-5 until I see what transpires in the autumn. I'm hoping for a high-end APS-C with around 24 MP and no AA filter, personally.

cats_five · 05-07-2013, 09:21 AM

So, for my needs where the big issues are noise at higher ISOs and focussing on (metaphorically) black cats in coal holes, the K5ii should be just the ticket. Now I need to decide if I'm going to get it with or without a lens - need to see how well K7 bodies sans lens are selling, compared to with a lens.

I also don't understand why such a big price difference in the UK vs the US...

**Canada_Rockies** · 05-07-2013, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by Anvh

You're going too fast here because there is a difference in blurring.

AA filter blurs the image before it's even captured so the information, is spread out over the pixels.
And with the information that falls on the pixels the pixel in the image is made by mixing the information together.
The false colour moire for example, you get a full red pixel, because the red pixel get expose but not the rest.
You can blur that red pixel but you're going to mix in the false colour with the rest so you need to blur more.

Agreed. But to reduce moire, you don't need to mix all four together to the same extent as the AA filter does. You can select the degree of blur to just barely remove the moire, and only in the area of the image where it occurs, and thus retain more detail. More detail is what I want. I shoot a lot of birds at great distances, and cropping can be done to a greater degree with more detail retained. I also shoot a lot of scenery, and greater detail can mean more realistic images.

The two models are just enough different, that my savings account is aimed directly at the IIs because of the extra detail available for birds, animals and scenery. If moire occurs, I own DxO and its in its latest versions it includes moire correction.

badsykes · 05-07-2013, 12:05 PM

Regarding the UE prices for Pentax products i make a euro/dolar parity to 1:1 usually...On B&H photovideo US site the K5 iis is 1200$..I usually translate it to 1200euro..If add VAT to 1200$ you will get around 1200euro..In my country VAT is 24% so in dolars will 1488$..
Either the american market is getting better prices than anywhere in the world because of much more orders overall or just the UE stupid VAT is the culprit..

05-07-2013, 12:28 AM	#1
cats_five Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Fife, Scotland Posts: 835	K5ii or K5iis? Mostly I do two types of photography - ISO 100, f8, planted on a tripod and using a remote release, and I also try to take photos of cats. The K7 is fine for the former, but the improved ISO performance will help the later hugely as I use available light, and very rarely have much of it due to where I'm taking the photos. Not sure if the extra for the 's' version will benefit me... It's a lot more money, £160 at anyone I would buy from e.g. a supplier who isn't selling grey imports. Will have to switch to DNG as CS4 doesn't know about K5 but that won't be an issue.

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05-07-2013, 01:09 AM	#2
hcc Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,002	Why not a K-5 simply. It is extremely good value if you can get one of the last new ones. My 5 cents...

05-07-2013, 01:13 AM	#3
cats_five Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Fife, Scotland Posts: 835 Original Poster	Suspect the better focusing of the K5ii / iis would benefit the cat photography. But I have no idea until I try!

05-07-2013, 01:31 AM	#4
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Depends on the photography and how you will use the photos. First off the use, if you only share images over the web and print small then you won't see any if much differnce. The only type of photography that really benefit is landscape. Now there is also a differnce in editing the photos. the normal version needs more sharpening S version will have more moire patterns mostly when photographing fabrics and such so you need to deal with that in post processing. If you edit both cameras to their fullest you will be hard press to see a differnce or atleast a beneficial differnce.

05-07-2013, 01:48 AM	#5
ak_kiwi Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Auckland, New Zealand. Posts: 328	Originally posted by cats_five Suspect the better focusing of the K5ii / iis would benefit the cat photography. But I have no idea until I try! Yes it would. I have just picked up a K5iis and I am testing it along side my standard K5. I have just shot some very low light indoor shots and the difference between the K5iis and K5 is like night and day in the focusing department. Yes the K5IIs is sharper, but as Anvh points out, the K5 /K5ii can duplicate the same sharpness with post processing. (As an aside, it seems that AfterShot Pro does not support the raw files from the K5IIs. I have finally had to learn Lightroom which isn't all bad)

05-07-2013, 02:13 AM	#6
cats_five Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Fife, Scotland Posts: 835 Original Poster	Thought I explained the type of photography above - landscapes (tripod, ISO 100, f8, often a slow shutter speed) and photos of cats which are often indoors in low light levels. I print A4 and occasionally A3. If the collective wisdom is that the iis only helps landscapes along then I don't need it - I'm happy with what I get.

05-07-2013, 02:13 AM	#7
badsykes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 61	The K5II/S is rated to focus down to -3EV versus K5 that goes only down to 0EV

05-07-2013, 04:38 AM	#8
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	If low light AF is what you need than the K-5II is superior to the K-5. The K-5IIs may not be what you need and 160 pounds is a lot of money for a feature you don't need. the -3EV vs 0EV is a good bit and the photos that are being posted indicate that if you are taking pictures of a black cat outside without much light the difference is a useful one for you.

05-07-2013, 06:54 AM	#9
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by cats_five If the collective wisdom is that the iis only helps landscapes along then I don't need it - I'm happy with what I get. Obviously the effects of a missing Bayer-AA filter will have an impact on all shots (not just landscapes). Given that the effects are not just images that require less capture-sharpening out of the box but are more likely to show colour moiré or other wrong colour effects, I'd definitely go for the K-5 II. Sensors using a Bayer matrix colour filter array need considerably more MP than the K-5 IIs has in order to let the lenses do all the necessary blurring work. Regarding K-5 vs K-5II: I'd spent the extra coin on the K-5 II in order to avoid the low-light AF issues of the K-5. The K-5 II AF has other advantages as well, e.g., an f/2.8 AF sensor in the centre for better accuracy, use of more than one AF area in continuous AF, and I guess speedier operation in general (not sure about the latter though).

05-07-2013, 08:29 AM	#10
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385	There is no difference in the sensors. All three use the same sensor. The difference is in the AF engine and associated hardware, and in the case of the "s" variant, removal of the AA blurring filter. And that's all the AA filter is, it blurs four pixels (2g, 1r, 1b) together to avoid moire effects. There is plenty of free software that can be made to lightly blur either the whole image or just the area with moire if it pops up. My savings are towards the K5 IIs.

05-07-2013, 08:43 AM	#11
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by Canada_Rockies There is no difference in the sensors. All three use the same sensor. The difference is in the AF engine and associated hardware, and in the case of the "s" variant, removal of the AA blurring filter. And that's all the AA filter is, it blurs four pixels (2g, 1r, 1b) together to avoid moire effects. There is plenty of free software that can be made to lightly blur either the whole image or just the area with moire if it pops up. My savings are towards the K5 IIs. You're going too fast here because there is a difference in blurring. AA filter blurs the image before it's even captured so the information, is spread out over the pixels. And with the information that falls on the pixels the pixel in the image is made by mixing the information together. The false colour moire for example, you get a full red pixel, because the red pixel get expose but not the rest. You can blur that red pixel but you're going to mix in the false colour with the rest so you need to blur more.

05-07-2013, 08:58 AM	#12
Cynog Ap Brychan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Gloucester Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	I can't understand why the IIs is £160 (around $240) more than the II, when it was only ever $100 more expensive in the USA. The huge price difference is what's holding me back from buying a K-5 IIs and sticking with my K-5 until I see what transpires in the autumn. I'm hoping for a high-end APS-C with around 24 MP and no AA filter, personally.

05-07-2013, 09:21 AM	#13
cats_five Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Fife, Scotland Posts: 835 Original Poster	So, for my needs where the big issues are noise at higher ISOs and focussing on (metaphorically) black cats in coal holes, the K5ii should be just the ticket. Now I need to decide if I'm going to get it with or without a lens - need to see how well K7 bodies sans lens are selling, compared to with a lens. I also don't understand why such a big price difference in the UK vs the US...

05-07-2013, 09:34 AM	#14
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385	Originally posted by Anvh You're going too fast here because there is a difference in blurring. AA filter blurs the image before it's even captured so the information, is spread out over the pixels. And with the information that falls on the pixels the pixel in the image is made by mixing the information together. The false colour moire for example, you get a full red pixel, because the red pixel get expose but not the rest. You can blur that red pixel but you're going to mix in the false colour with the rest so you need to blur more. Agreed. But to reduce moire, you don't need to mix all four together to the same extent as the AA filter does. You can select the degree of blur to just barely remove the moire, and only in the area of the image where it occurs, and thus retain more detail. More detail is what I want. I shoot a lot of birds at great distances, and cropping can be done to a greater degree with more detail retained. I also shoot a lot of scenery, and greater detail can mean more realistic images. The two models are just enough different, that my savings account is aimed directly at the IIs because of the extra detail available for birds, animals and scenery. If moire occurs, I own DxO and its in its latest versions it includes moire correction.

05-07-2013, 12:05 PM	#15
badsykes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 61	Regarding the UE prices for Pentax products i make a euro/dolar parity to 1:1 usually...On B&H photovideo US site the K5 iis is 1200$..I usually translate it to 1200euro..If add VAT to 1200$ you will get around 1200euro..In my country VAT is 24% so in dolars will 1488$.. Either the american market is getting better prices than anywhere in the world because of much more orders overall or just the UE stupid VAT is the culprit..