Why is the K-5 IIs video mode so bad?

ZombieArmy · 06-23-2014, 11:32 AM

Hello everyone!

My name is Brian and I've been researching for a camera in the 600-900 dollar price range that can act as a very good first camera jam packed with all the features a beginner could ever need. For the longest time I've actually been looking at the Canon 60D and the Nikon D7000 as the top contenders for me. However after seeing a video on Digital Rev that compared the Nikon D7100 and the Pentax K-5 IIS, I've been extremely interested in the camera. I've spent hours looking through flickr pools of all the cameras that I've been considering, and the Pentax in my opinion has outshined them all, and so I thought "this is the camera I'm going to get!"

But then I looked at the video quality on Youtube. I don't know if it was because of amateur use or what, but the video quality on this Pentax is simply awful, worse than an old iphone practically (maybe a bit of an exaggeration

) The rolling shutter effect is noticeable with just normal handling from what I've seen in demonstrations on youtube. Of course there are only like 3-4 videos compared to the hundreds on the 60D (which also have proper tests dealing with ISO, FPS and noise). I mean I don't need the cinematic quality of the 60D, but I want something decent for videos on trips and maybe some reviews on Youtube.

I mainly came here to ask you guys what your experiences are with the video mode on this camera, and that maybe it was just bad settings or someone having a seizure while filming on these youtube videos since this is really the make it or break it for me on this camera.

stevebrot · 06-23-2014, 11:48 AM

Provocative title. I am surprised that you could only find a sprinkling of K-5/K-5 II(s) video on YouTube. The video is the same for all three models. Try this link on Flickr:

https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Pentax+K-5&ss=2&ct=0&mt=videos&w=all&adv=1

Steve

ZombieArmy · 06-23-2014, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Provocative title. I am surprised that you could only find a sprinkling of K-5/K-5 II(s) video on YouTube. The video is the same for all three models. Try this link on Flickr:

https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Pentax+K-5&ss=2&ct=0&mt=videos&w=all&adv=1

Steve

The title isn't meant to be provocative, just an honest opinion of the video that I've seen of the K-5 IIS thus far. Thanks for the link though, I didn't know flickr had videos (I rarely use the website outside of picture pools) I'll take a good look through it.

**sholtzma** · 06-23-2014, 12:14 PM

If the following video, shot with the K-7, is any indication, the video mode of the K-5 series cameras should be plenty good enough:

https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AnBfFCl8ESrUar7d7naC3hubvZx4?p=uncle+ja...8&fr=yfp-t-901

OregonJim · 06-23-2014, 12:34 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by ZombieArmy

However after seeing a video on Digital Rev that compared the Nikon D7100 and the Pentax K-5 IIS

Kai from DigitalRev is to be taken with a large grain of salt. Most of his videos are about being a smartass, and there is little valuable technical info. I do find him entertaining, though.

Originally posted by ZombieArmy

But then I looked at the video quality on Youtube. I don't know if it was because of amateur use or what, but the video quality on this Pentax is simply awful

YouTube video quality in and of itself is marginal at best. Highly inconsistent and heavily compressed. I would look elsewhere for representative samples if video quality is important to you.

Originally posted by ZombieArmy

I mainly came here to ask you guys what your experiences are with the video mode on this camera

Sorry, I can't help you here as I don't have a K5IIs. I do have a K-3, but have not explored video with it yet.

ZombieArmy · 06-23-2014, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by OregonJim

Kai from DigitalRev is to be taken with a large grain of salt. Most of his videos are about being a smartass, and there is little valuable technical info. I do find him entertaining, though..

Very true, but he did highly recommend this camera!

But thank you guys for the resources to judge this camera's video mode better, I feel like it's a camera I will have to highly consider still

DSims · 06-23-2014, 12:43 PM

If you primarily shoot video you probably don't want it (primarily because it lacks a few features), but it does have a couple of advantages people seldom think about. For one, the lack of an AA filter produces pretty sharp video, and secondly the MJPEG recording format is higher quality than what most DSLRs use (even though the files are big). In the camera press its M-JPEG format was usually derided, but I've recently noticed that some of the higher end video cameras employ this format.

Oh, and a third advantage I almost forgot: unlike the K-3, the K-5 and K-5 IIs utilize sensor-based (rather than electronic) SR. So as long as you're prepared to "pull focus" manually (as on all but a few of the latest ILCs) the K-5 IIs can make a fine video machine. Lack of manual exposure adjustment while recording is actually its biggest drawback. It may not be perfect for trips, but it should be ideal for interviews and probably Youtube reviews as well.

Last edited by DSims; 06-23-2014 at 12:53 PM.

MadMathMind · 06-23-2014, 12:43 PM

The K-5IIs video quality is more featureless than poor quality. The biggest issues:

1) Codec is M-JPEG. Basically, the camera compresses each frame using JPEG. If you set to premium quality, you get absolutely enormous file sizes. Video size is 1920x1080, which is about 1/4 the pixels of a normal still shot on the K-5 IIs, so it's not exactly as bad as 24*8MB per frame, but it's still unnecessarily large.

2) No autofocus during video shooting. This means it can go out of focus pretty easily if the user isn't compensating.

#1 is the biggest culprit, most likely. Perhaps the user set the JPEG quality down to save space?

ZombieArmy · 06-23-2014, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by MadMathMind

The K-5IIs video quality is more featureless than poor quality. The biggest issues:

1) Codec is M-JPEG. Basically, the camera compresses each frame using JPEG. If you set to premium quality, you get absolutely enormous file sizes. Video size is 1920x1080, which is about 1/4 the pixels of a normal still shot on the K-5 IIs, so it's not exactly as bad as 24*8MB per frame, but it's still unnecessarily large.

2) No autofocus during video shooting. This means it can go out of focus pretty easily if the user isn't compensating.

#1 is the biggest culprit, most likely. Perhaps the user set the JPEG quality down to save space?

I wasn't even aware of the M-JPEG codec! But yes this would probably explain the shoddy quality of the videos I saw on youtube. I wonder if there's any hacked firmware updates for it that would allow it to shoot in h.264.

Steve.Ledger · 06-23-2014, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by ZombieArmy

I've been researching for a camera in the 600-900 dollar price range that can act as a very good first camera jam packed with all the features a beginner could ever need. .

Then that's exactly what you'll get.
But if you want higher quality and more control you need to spring for a GH4.
There is no 'perfect' camera [though 'perfect means something different to almost everyone]

In my own extensive research I have seen much better quality video footage shot with the K-5II than Pentax cameras that came after this.
Yes, maybe there is less control - but is that control producing better video IQ with the K-30/K-01/K-50/K3? Not that I can see.

What are you goals for shooting video? If you need higher end, then you need a higher budget - simples

ZombieArmy · 06-23-2014, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by Steve.Ledger

Then that's exactly what you'll get.
But if you want higher quality and more control you need to spring for a GH4.
There is no 'perfect' camera [though 'perfect means something different to almost everyone]

In my own extensive research I have seen much better quality video footage shot with the K-5II than Pentax cameras that came after this.
Yes, maybe there is less control - but is that control producing better video IQ with the K-30/K-01/K-50/K3? Not that I can see.

What are you goals for shooting video? If you need higher end, then you need a higher budget - simples

Yah I realize this and I'm trying to adjust my expectations accordingly. I'm realizing I can't get the fantastic picture quality of the k-5 IIS with the superior video of the 60/70D in one package.

I'm going to have to evaluate what's more important to me I guess

eddaytona · 06-23-2014, 02:09 PM

I don't shoot much video with my K-5 (I think the codac is the same as the K-5ii) because I want to upload to You Tube. If you do that as a straight upload you will get a clicking sound on the audio track that is supremely annoying. If you want to get rid of that clicking you have to convert your movie to another format. Why bother? I simply use my Canon S110. More than satisfied. IMO stick to stills with the K-5 (K-R too) until Pentax figures out how to fix that problem. K-3 owners, any comments?

Steve.Ledger · 06-23-2014, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by eddaytona

If you want to get rid of that clicking you have to convert your movie to another format. Why bother?

The K-7 suffers the same clicking, but I've found that it also depends on which player you use to view the files. For example, on my PC MediaPlayerClassic plays them click-free, vlc does not.

stevebrot · 06-23-2014, 03:01 PM

Here is one that appears to be pretty good quality:

https://flic.kr/p/gPmXo6

DSims · 06-23-2014, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by ZombieArmy

I wasn't even aware of the M-JPEG codec! But yes this would probably explain the shoddy quality of the videos I saw on youtube. I wonder if there's any hacked firmware updates for it that would allow it to shoot in h.264.

Don't expect to ever see hacked firmware for Pentax - it's not big enough in the market (not enough cameras out there to justify the work unless it were a video-recording powerhouse to begin with).

As I mentioned, MJPEG is actually an advantage in many ways - especially for editing - because every frame is stored as a complete image.

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06-23-2014, 11:32 AM	#1
ZombieArmy Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 3,210	Why is the K-5 IIs video mode so bad? Hello everyone! My name is Brian and I've been researching for a camera in the 600-900 dollar price range that can act as a very good first camera jam packed with all the features a beginner could ever need. For the longest time I've actually been looking at the Canon 60D and the Nikon D7000 as the top contenders for me. However after seeing a video on Digital Rev that compared the Nikon D7100 and the Pentax K-5 IIS, I've been extremely interested in the camera. I've spent hours looking through flickr pools of all the cameras that I've been considering, and the Pentax in my opinion has outshined them all, and so I thought "this is the camera I'm going to get!" But then I looked at the video quality on Youtube. I don't know if it was because of amateur use or what, but the video quality on this Pentax is simply awful, worse than an old iphone practically (maybe a bit of an exaggeration ) The rolling shutter effect is noticeable with just normal handling from what I've seen in demonstrations on youtube. Of course there are only like 3-4 videos compared to the hundreds on the 60D (which also have proper tests dealing with ISO, FPS and noise). I mean I don't need the cinematic quality of the 60D, but I want something decent for videos on trips and maybe some reviews on Youtube. I mainly came here to ask you guys what your experiences are with the video mode on this camera, and that maybe it was just bad settings or someone having a seizure while filming on these youtube videos since this is really the make it or break it for me on this camera.

06-23-2014, 11:48 AM	#2
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Provocative title. I am surprised that you could only find a sprinkling of K-5/K-5 II(s) video on YouTube. The video is the same for all three models. Try this link on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Pentax+K-5&ss=2&ct=0&mt=videos&w=all&adv=1 Steve

06-23-2014, 12:03 PM	#3
ZombieArmy Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 3,210 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot Provocative title. I am surprised that you could only find a sprinkling of K-5/K-5 II(s) video on YouTube. The video is the same for all three models. Try this link on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Pentax+K-5&ss=2&ct=0&mt=videos&w=all&adv=1 Steve The title isn't meant to be provocative, just an honest opinion of the video that I've seen of the K-5 IIS thus far. Thanks for the link though, I didn't know flickr had videos (I rarely use the website outside of picture pools) I'll take a good look through it.

06-23-2014, 12:14 PM	#4
sholtzma Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Salisbury, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,043	If the following video, shot with the K-7, is any indication, the video mode of the K-5 series cameras should be plenty good enough: https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AnBfFCl8ESrUar7d7naC3hubvZx4?p=uncle+ja...8&fr=yfp-t-901

06-23-2014, 12:34 PM - 1 Like	#5
OregonJim Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon Posts: 1,327	Originally posted by ZombieArmy However after seeing a video on Digital Rev that compared the Nikon D7100 and the Pentax K-5 IIS Kai from DigitalRev is to be taken with a large grain of salt. Most of his videos are about being a smartass, and there is little valuable technical info. I do find him entertaining, though. Originally posted by ZombieArmy But then I looked at the video quality on Youtube. I don't know if it was because of amateur use or what, but the video quality on this Pentax is simply awful YouTube video quality in and of itself is marginal at best. Highly inconsistent and heavily compressed. I would look elsewhere for representative samples if video quality is important to you. Originally posted by ZombieArmy I mainly came here to ask you guys what your experiences are with the video mode on this camera Sorry, I can't help you here as I don't have a K5IIs. I do have a K-3, but have not explored video with it yet.

06-23-2014, 12:37 PM	#6
ZombieArmy Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 3,210 Original Poster	Originally posted by OregonJim Kai from DigitalRev is to be taken with a large grain of salt. Most of his videos are about being a smartass, and there is little valuable technical info. I do find him entertaining, though.. Very true, but he did highly recommend this camera! But thank you guys for the resources to judge this camera's video mode better, I feel like it's a camera I will have to highly consider still

06-23-2014, 12:43 PM	#7
DSims Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Southern California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,236	If you primarily shoot video you probably don't want it (primarily because it lacks a few features), but it does have a couple of advantages people seldom think about. For one, the lack of an AA filter produces pretty sharp video, and secondly the MJPEG recording format is higher quality than what most DSLRs use (even though the files are big). In the camera press its M-JPEG format was usually derided, but I've recently noticed that some of the higher end video cameras employ this format. Oh, and a third advantage I almost forgot: unlike the K-3, the K-5 and K-5 IIs utilize sensor-based (rather than electronic) SR. So as long as you're prepared to "pull focus" manually (as on all but a few of the latest ILCs) the K-5 IIs can make a fine video machine. Lack of manual exposure adjustment while recording is actually its biggest drawback. It may not be perfect for trips, but it should be ideal for interviews and probably Youtube reviews as well. Last edited by DSims; 06-23-2014 at 12:53 PM.

06-23-2014, 12:43 PM	#8
MadMathMind Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Houston, TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,717	The K-5IIs video quality is more featureless than poor quality. The biggest issues: 1) Codec is M-JPEG. Basically, the camera compresses each frame using JPEG. If you set to premium quality, you get absolutely enormous file sizes. Video size is 1920x1080, which is about 1/4 the pixels of a normal still shot on the K-5 IIs, so it's not exactly as bad as 24*8MB per frame, but it's still unnecessarily large. 2) No autofocus during video shooting. This means it can go out of focus pretty easily if the user isn't compensating. #1 is the biggest culprit, most likely. Perhaps the user set the JPEG quality down to save space?

06-23-2014, 01:04 PM	#9
ZombieArmy Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 3,210 Original Poster	Originally posted by MadMathMind The K-5IIs video quality is more featureless than poor quality. The biggest issues: 1) Codec is M-JPEG. Basically, the camera compresses each frame using JPEG. If you set to premium quality, you get absolutely enormous file sizes. Video size is 1920x1080, which is about 1/4 the pixels of a normal still shot on the K-5 IIs, so it's not exactly as bad as 24*8MB per frame, but it's still unnecessarily large. 2) No autofocus during video shooting. This means it can go out of focus pretty easily if the user isn't compensating. #1 is the biggest culprit, most likely. Perhaps the user set the JPEG quality down to save space? I wasn't even aware of the M-JPEG codec! But yes this would probably explain the shoddy quality of the videos I saw on youtube. I wonder if there's any hacked firmware updates for it that would allow it to shoot in h.264.

06-23-2014, 01:08 PM	#10
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Originally posted by ZombieArmy I've been researching for a camera in the 600-900 dollar price range that can act as a very good first camera jam packed with all the features a beginner could ever need. . Then that's exactly what you'll get. But if you want higher quality and more control you need to spring for a GH4. There is no 'perfect' camera [though 'perfect means something different to almost everyone] In my own extensive research I have seen much better quality video footage shot with the K-5II than Pentax cameras that came after this. Yes, maybe there is less control - but is that control producing better video IQ with the K-30/K-01/K-50/K3? Not that I can see. What are you goals for shooting video? If you need higher end, then you need a higher budget - simples

06-23-2014, 01:17 PM	#11
ZombieArmy Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 3,210 Original Poster	Originally posted by Steve.Ledger Then that's exactly what you'll get. But if you want higher quality and more control you need to spring for a GH4. There is no 'perfect' camera [though 'perfect means something different to almost everyone] In my own extensive research I have seen much better quality video footage shot with the K-5II than Pentax cameras that came after this. Yes, maybe there is less control - but is that control producing better video IQ with the K-30/K-01/K-50/K3? Not that I can see. What are you goals for shooting video? If you need higher end, then you need a higher budget - simples Yah I realize this and I'm trying to adjust my expectations accordingly. I'm realizing I can't get the fantastic picture quality of the k-5 IIS with the superior video of the 60/70D in one package. I'm going to have to evaluate what's more important to me I guess

06-23-2014, 02:09 PM	#12
eddaytona Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Black Rock City, NV Photos: Albums Posts: 175	I don't shoot much video with my K-5 (I think the codac is the same as the K-5ii) because I want to upload to You Tube. If you do that as a straight upload you will get a clicking sound on the audio track that is supremely annoying. If you want to get rid of that clicking you have to convert your movie to another format. Why bother? I simply use my Canon S110. More than satisfied. IMO stick to stills with the K-5 (K-R too) until Pentax figures out how to fix that problem. K-3 owners, any comments?

06-23-2014, 02:18 PM	#13
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Originally posted by eddaytona If you want to get rid of that clicking you have to convert your movie to another format. Why bother? The K-7 suffers the same clicking, but I've found that it also depends on which player you use to view the files. For example, on my PC MediaPlayerClassic plays them click-free, vlc does not.

06-23-2014, 03:01 PM	#14
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Here is one that appears to be pretty good quality: https://flic.kr/p/gPmXo6

06-23-2014, 03:19 PM	#15
DSims Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Southern California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,236	Originally posted by ZombieArmy I wasn't even aware of the M-JPEG codec! But yes this would probably explain the shoddy quality of the videos I saw on youtube. I wonder if there's any hacked firmware updates for it that would allow it to shoot in h.264. Don't expect to ever see hacked firmware for Pentax - it's not big enough in the market (not enough cameras out there to justify the work unless it were a video-recording powerhouse to begin with). As I mentioned, MJPEG is actually an advantage in many ways - especially for editing - because every frame is stored as a complete image.