Shake Reduction, both useful and not.

cali92rs · 08-11-2015, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

[*]SR has no effect, positive or negative, at high shutter speeds (i.e. higher shutter speed than 1/(effective focal length)[/LIST]

Regarding this item, I remember seeing a pretty long post on DPR regarding using SR at high shutter speeds, that it was detrimental.
However, as happens quite often, the thread became gigantic and turned into a p1ssing match so I did not know if there was a resolution.

So just to make sure, your testing shows that SR at high shutter speeds doesn't have much of an effect one way or an other?

audiobomber · 08-11-2015, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by cali92rs

So just to make sure, your testing shows that SR at high shutter speeds doesn't have much of an effect one way or an other?

Correct, my testing over a period of years, with a K100D Super, K20D and K-3, shows no difference between SR ON and OFF at high shutter speeds. Try it for yourself. Shoot sequential images with a sharp lens, SR on and off in bright sunlight, where shutter speed is not a factor. Pixel peep to confirm, there's no effect, even at 24mp with no blur filter.

**UncleVanya** · 08-11-2015, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

Correct, my testing over a period of years, with a K100D Super, K20D and K-3, shows no difference between SR ON and OFF at high shutter speeds. Try it for yourself. Shoot sequential images with a sharp lens, SR on and off in bright sunlight, where shutter speed is not a factor. Pixel peep to confirm, there's no effect, even at 24mp with no blur filter.

My experience includes the K100D Super, K50, K3 - and not quite as rigorous a set of tests but the same results.

Gimbal · 08-12-2015, 04:38 AM

Originally posted by pathdoc

Once I realised that in no way were my shutter speeds coming anywhere near blur-inducing (even at ISO 80 and stopped way down, they were faster than 1/180 and my longest lens was a 135)

1/180 sec. at 135mm is no way near a safe speed, it's right there on the limit. It should work if you are careful, but you still have to be careful.

kh1234567890 · 08-12-2015, 04:59 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

I believe the shot will be spoiled if it is taken during the fraction of a second that the SR is spooling up.

pathdoc · 08-12-2015, 05:43 AM

Originally posted by Gimbal

1/180 sec. at 135mm is no way near a safe speed, it's right there on the limit.

1/180 was about as slow as it got in the bright sunlight; mostly it was significantly faster than that.

**UncleVanya** · 08-12-2015, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by kh1234567890

1/25th of a second is pushing things unless you and your subject are fairly still. Was this during SR wake up? Did you get a shot after at the same shutter speed and conditions that was better? Wild looking - despite the focus blur I like it. It has a frenetic quality to it.

kh1234567890 · 08-12-2015, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

1/25th of a second is pushing things unless you and your subject are fairly still. Was this during SR wake up? Did you get a shot after at the same shutter speed and conditions that was better? Wild looking - despite the focus blur I like it. It has a frenetic quality to it.

That was a K-7 with the kit DA18-55WR at 18mm, shooting from the hip. Weird. EXIF claims 0.7sec shutter press and SR lock. And I did not zoom in/out during the exposure. Strangely the centre is reasonably in focus without motion blur. I doubt that I could repeat the shot

**realitarian** · 08-12-2015, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by kh1234567890

That was a K-7 with the kit DA18-55WR at 18mm, shooting from the hip. Weird. EXIF claims 0.7sec shutter press and SR lock. And I did not zoom in/out during the exposure. Strangely the centre is reasonably in focus without motion blur. I doubt that I could repeat the shot

I wonder if the center is blur-free because the center part of the sensor is the pivot point for the SR mechanism?

kh1234567890 · 08-12-2015, 10:06 AM

At least the K-7 SR could cope better with panning. The K-5ii loses SR lock at the slightest provocation if you pan - sometimes with strange effects :

**UncleVanya** · 08-12-2015, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by kh1234567890

That was a K-7 with the kit DA18-55WR at 18mm, shooting from the hip. Weird. EXIF claims 0.7sec shutter press and SR lock. And I did not zoom in/out during the exposure. Strangely the centre is reasonably in focus without motion blur. I doubt that I could repeat the shot

Neat. But I'm confused because on Flickr it showed 1/25th.

kh1234567890 · 08-12-2015, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

Neat. But I'm confused because on Flickr it showed 1/25th.

Shutter speed was 1/25. 0.7 sec was the length of the shutter button half press which gets recorded in the makernotes section of the EXIF. Should have been just long enough for SR lock.

**UncleVanya** · 08-12-2015, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by kh1234567890

Shutter speed was 1/25. 0.7 sec was the length of the shutter button half press which gets recorded in the makernotes section of the EXIF. Should have been just long enough for SR lock.

(Sound of hand slapping forehead)
Oh! Got it.

Gimbal · 08-13-2015, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by kh1234567890

That was a K-7 with the kit DA18-55WR at 18mm, shooting from the hip. Weird. EXIF claims 0.7sec shutter press and SR lock. And I did not zoom in/out during the exposure. Strangely the centre is reasonably in focus without motion blur. I doubt that I could repeat the shot

I doubt SR had anything to do with this weird effect. I would chalk it up to panning at a subject that is moving towards you with an angle. Parts that are far away will appear to move slow and parts close to you will move faster, thus it is impossible to pan at speed that will catch the whole subject in focus. Your panning speed will only match at one distance to the subject, which in this case seems to be those yellow things.

The second photo seems ok to me.

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08-11-2015, 09:22 AM	#16
cali92rs Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 3,354	Originally posted by audiobomber [*]SR has no effect, positive or negative, at high shutter speeds (i.e. higher shutter speed than 1/(effective focal length)[/LIST] Regarding this item, I remember seeing a pretty long post on DPR regarding using SR at high shutter speeds, that it was detrimental. However, as happens quite often, the thread became gigantic and turned into a p1ssing match so I did not know if there was a resolution. So just to make sure, your testing shows that SR at high shutter speeds doesn't have much of an effect one way or an other?

08-11-2015, 09:29 AM	#17
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by cali92rs So just to make sure, your testing shows that SR at high shutter speeds doesn't have much of an effect one way or an other? Correct, my testing over a period of years, with a K100D Super, K20D and K-3, shows no difference between SR ON and OFF at high shutter speeds. Try it for yourself. Shoot sequential images with a sharp lens, SR on and off in bright sunlight, where shutter speed is not a factor. Pixel peep to confirm, there's no effect, even at 24mp with no blur filter.

08-11-2015, 10:42 AM	#18
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,404	Originally posted by audiobomber Correct, my testing over a period of years, with a K100D Super, K20D and K-3, shows no difference between SR ON and OFF at high shutter speeds. Try it for yourself. Shoot sequential images with a sharp lens, SR on and off in bright sunlight, where shutter speed is not a factor. Pixel peep to confirm, there's no effect, even at 24mp with no blur filter. My experience includes the K100D Super, K50, K3 - and not quite as rigorous a set of tests but the same results.

08-12-2015, 04:38 AM	#19
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Originally posted by pathdoc Once I realised that in no way were my shutter speeds coming anywhere near blur-inducing (even at ISO 80 and stopped way down, they were faster than 1/180 and my longest lens was a 135) 1/180 sec. at 135mm is no way near a safe speed, it's right there on the limit. It should work if you are careful, but you still have to be careful.

08-12-2015, 04:59 AM	#20
kh1234567890 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Manchester, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,653	Originally posted by audiobomber I believe the shot will be spoiled if it is taken during the fraction of a second that the SR is spooling up.

08-12-2015, 05:43 AM	#21
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381 Original Poster	Originally posted by Gimbal 1/180 sec. at 135mm is no way near a safe speed, it's right there on the limit. 1/180 was about as slow as it got in the bright sunlight; mostly it was significantly faster than that.

08-12-2015, 08:50 AM	#22
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,404	Originally posted by kh1234567890 1/25th of a second is pushing things unless you and your subject are fairly still. Was this during SR wake up? Did you get a shot after at the same shutter speed and conditions that was better? Wild looking - despite the focus blur I like it. It has a frenetic quality to it.

08-12-2015, 09:44 AM	#23
kh1234567890 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Manchester, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,653	Originally posted by UncleVanya 1/25th of a second is pushing things unless you and your subject are fairly still. Was this during SR wake up? Did you get a shot after at the same shutter speed and conditions that was better? Wild looking - despite the focus blur I like it. It has a frenetic quality to it. That was a K-7 with the kit DA18-55WR at 18mm, shooting from the hip. Weird. EXIF claims 0.7sec shutter press and SR lock. And I did not zoom in/out during the exposure. Strangely the centre is reasonably in focus without motion blur. I doubt that I could repeat the shot

08-12-2015, 09:57 AM	#24
realitarian Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Los Angeles, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 221	Originally posted by kh1234567890 That was a K-7 with the kit DA18-55WR at 18mm, shooting from the hip. Weird. EXIF claims 0.7sec shutter press and SR lock. And I did not zoom in/out during the exposure. Strangely the centre is reasonably in focus without motion blur. I doubt that I could repeat the shot I wonder if the center is blur-free because the center part of the sensor is the pivot point for the SR mechanism?

08-12-2015, 10:06 AM	#25
kh1234567890 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Manchester, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,653	At least the K-7 SR could cope better with panning. The K-5ii loses SR lock at the slightest provocation if you pan - sometimes with strange effects :

08-12-2015, 12:35 PM	#26
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,404	Originally posted by kh1234567890 That was a K-7 with the kit DA18-55WR at 18mm, shooting from the hip. Weird. EXIF claims 0.7sec shutter press and SR lock. And I did not zoom in/out during the exposure. Strangely the centre is reasonably in focus without motion blur. I doubt that I could repeat the shot Neat. But I'm confused because on Flickr it showed 1/25th.

08-12-2015, 01:40 PM	#27
kh1234567890 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Manchester, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,653	Originally posted by UncleVanya Neat. But I'm confused because on Flickr it showed 1/25th. Shutter speed was 1/25. 0.7 sec was the length of the shutter button half press which gets recorded in the makernotes section of the EXIF. Should have been just long enough for SR lock.

08-12-2015, 01:47 PM	#28
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,404	Originally posted by kh1234567890 Shutter speed was 1/25. 0.7 sec was the length of the shutter button half press which gets recorded in the makernotes section of the EXIF. Should have been just long enough for SR lock. (Sound of hand slapping forehead) Oh! Got it.

08-13-2015, 06:45 AM	#29
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Originally posted by kh1234567890 That was a K-7 with the kit DA18-55WR at 18mm, shooting from the hip. Weird. EXIF claims 0.7sec shutter press and SR lock. And I did not zoom in/out during the exposure. Strangely the centre is reasonably in focus without motion blur. I doubt that I could repeat the shot I doubt SR had anything to do with this weird effect. I would chalk it up to panning at a subject that is moving towards you with an angle. Parts that are far away will appear to move slow and parts close to you will move faster, thus it is impossible to pan at speed that will catch the whole subject in focus. Your panning speed will only match at one distance to the subject, which in this case seems to be those yellow things. The second photo seems ok to me.