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09-21-2010, 07:16 AM   #121
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Should we all praise the K-5 (although we haven't touched it)?

09-21-2010, 07:40 AM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by JoepLX3 Quote
Should we all praise the K-5 (although we haven't touched it)?
It makes as much sense as bashing it. In fact, its better than starting out with extreme negativity for the sake of being negative. It will be nice to see some objective tests.
09-21-2010, 08:08 AM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben Hunt Quote
Just saying....

Bigest problem with the k-5 is... it's not a K30D..

One of the main reasons why i got a K20D over a K7 was because of size and ergonomics.....Make me a K30D and i'll upgrade.....

am i the only one who would like a K30D?

I agree - the K10D / K20D body for me was much better than the smaller sized K-7. When I bought my K10D originally I chose it over the Nikon D80 it was primarily because of the way it felt - I wouldn't have made that choice if it had been in the K-7 body.

But I do think we are in the minority so not worth worrying about and haven't seen any reason to upgrade from K10D and GX20 yet anyway.
09-21-2010, 08:12 AM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
It makes as much sense as bashing it. In fact, its better than starting out with extreme negativity for the sake of being negative. It will be nice to see some objective tests.
I like it!!!

09-21-2010, 11:09 AM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by joeplx3 Quote
i like it!!!
i love it !!!
09-21-2010, 01:22 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by writeb Quote
The K-5 is a logical progression, and I'll certainly buy one after a few seasons. But the value proposition has to be much higher to attract people away from the much fabled CaNikon "Ecosystem."
I can't understand this obsession with "converting" costumers from other brands. PENTAX makes fine products and bet on the right things in my opinion (kept lens compatibility, cheaper lenses, in-body SR, use the best sensors available, high ISO performance, great build quality and ergonomics). Not to mention price and making SLRs more accessible to the crowd. I believe the K-x was a big success in this area, just like Canon has been very successful with their entry-levels.

There are compelling reasons to get cameras from all brands, it's not like PENTAX has to release a camera that out-specs all the competition *and* is cheaper because, well, it's a PENTAX. It's not some kind of messiah to convert all the CaNikon infidels.

Get over this :P
09-21-2010, 02:18 PM - 1 Like   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
I can't understand this obsession with "converting" costumers from other brands. PENTAX makes fine products and bet on the right things in my opinion (kept lens compatibility, cheaper lenses, in-body SR, use the best sensors available, high ISO performance, great build quality and ergonomics). Not to mention price and making SLRs more accessible to the crowd. I believe the K-x was a big success in this area, just like Canon has been very successful with their entry-levels.

There are compelling reasons to get cameras from all brands, it's not like PENTAX has to release a camera that out-specs all the competition *and* is cheaper because, well, it's a PENTAX. It's not some kind of messiah to convert all the CaNikon infidels.

Get over this :P
If you were the Pentax CEO... you'd be fired.
If you were a Pentax shareholder... you'd be throwing away your money.
And if you are a Pentax customer and if Pentax did operate like this... they wouldn't be providing you with products much longer.

The market for cameras is only so big. Pentax owns some of it. From that bit of it, they can make so much money in so much time. With that money, they can make new things like new and better lenses and cameras. Canon and Nikon own more of this market than Pentax does. As such, they make more money in less time. With that money they can make better lenses and better cameras faster than Pentax can. If you value Pentax as a company, you should hope that they want to attract new customers.
09-21-2010, 02:28 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by atomiccow Quote
If you were the Pentax CEO... you'd be fired.
If you were a Pentax shareholder... you'd be throwing away your money.
And if you are a Pentax customer and if Pentax did operate like this... they wouldn't be providing you with products much longer.

The market for cameras is only so big. Pentax owns some of it. From that bit of it, they can make so much money in so much time. With that money, they can make new things like new and better lenses and cameras. Canon and Nikon own more of this market than Pentax does. As such, they make more money in less time. With that money they can make better lenses and better cameras faster than Pentax can. If you value Pentax as a company, you should hope that they want to attract new customers.
Talk about trying to fight all fights.

People are bitching all about K-5, but I don't hear anyone bitching about, for instance, K-x or K-r. Because those are very competitive products on their lines compared to the other brands, if not the best cost/benefit considering the entire system.

What I'm saying is that everybody is obsessed about converting CaNikon customers, when it's not really the point. There are new users acquiring DSLRs everyday, and products like the K-x and K-r make it more accessible.

If I were a shareholder, I would prefer PENTAX to keep the strategy of accessible DSLRs and tough bodies with sensible improvements instead of releasing some high-spec'd ass camera just to win reviews against CaNikon. Specially because Nikon and Canon have deep pockets and can underprice just to flood models and maintain market share. You can't win against someone selling at close to zero profit - which they can do with high-end models just to maintain brand value, and sell where the meat is, low-medium tier.

When you're a small company, your strategy has to be smart, fast-moving, finding the unexplored markets you can squeeze in (entry-level, medium format). Trying to fight all fights makes you lose all.

What PENTAX can and should do, in my opinion, is raise brand awareness, that from what I can read in the forums, is extremely low in USA - inside Europe looks like it's better in this regard. In Japan, they raised to a 10% market share this year, which is great considering their size. Apple owns ~6.5% worldwide, but doesn't mean they don't turn a profit or don't make high quality products. Market share alone says nothing about a company. Think about it.


Last edited by hcarvalhoalves; 09-21-2010 at 02:48 PM.
09-21-2010, 03:00 PM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
Talk about trying to fight all fights.

People are bitching all about K-5, but I don't hear anyone bitching about, for instance, K-x or K-r. Because those are very competitive products on their lines compared to the other brands, if not the best cost/benefit considering the entire system.

What I'm saying is that everybody is obsessed about converting CaNikon customers, when it's not really the point. There are *new* users acquiring DSLRs everyday, and products like the K-x and K-r make it more accessible.

If I were a shareholder, I would prefer PENTAX to keep the strategy of accessible DSLRs instead of trying to fight against high-spec'd cameras from Nikon and Canon. SPECIALLY because Nikon and Canon have money and can UNDERPRICE just to flood models and maintain market share.

When you're a small company, your strategy has to be smart, fast-moving, finding the unexplored markets you can squeeze in (entry-level, medium format). Trying to fight all fights makes you lose all.
I'm sure that Pentax would disagree with your business proposition. in this kind of business, it doesn't make any sense to be cautious or play safe. actually, not only Pentax would disagree, but other players as well. haven't you noticed the recent influx of new players in the market? some of the old and small time manufacturers are garnering balls to invest on different camera niches. even Fujifilm which went into a long hiatus suddenly came up with a new camera which rattled the craddle of all the bigtime players on their enthusiast, amateur, semi-pro, pro market.

now what made this possible is because of new or fresh innovations and strategical pricing that would flood the market demand for the camera. at the advertised priced, they had somehow already shook the niche of the supposedly full Canikon midrange market. what Pentax needs to do is to come up with innovations in each particular niche. even the entry-level market and MF market is no safe zone either. and what makes you think that Canikon can't do something similar in those niches? for what it's worth, the two big players are already strengthening their entry level line-up and might start to do the affordable entry level mirrorless APS-C camera that Samsung and Sony came up with at an entry level price. this would kill Pentax if they lag far behind.

as I said, what Pentax needs to do is to incorporate unique innovations in every niche and that would catapult their status. pricing is also one thing that they should consider as well.

as far as the K-5's pricing is concerned, I believe they are on a test stage where they would like to know how much people would invest with their camera. this could be one of the wrong strategies that Pentax is employing. if they would price it around $1,200, it could work out well and dictate the price tempo of the market. now the only thing that is missing is innovation.

from what I'm seeing, the camera niche is a growing and expanding business.
09-21-2010, 03:01 PM   #130
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QuoteQuote:
Talk about trying to fight all fights.

People are bitching all about K-5, but I don't hear anyone bitching about, for instance, K-x or K-r. Because those are very competitive products on their lines compared to the other brands, if not the best cost/benefit considering the entire system.

What I'm saying is that everybody is obsessed about converting CaNikon customers, when it's not really the point. There are new users acquiring DSLRs everyday, and products like the K-x and K-r make it more accessible.

If I were a shareholder, I would prefer PENTAX to keep the strategy of accessible DSLRs and tough bodies with sensible improvements instead of releasing some high-spec'd ass camera just to win reviews against CaNikon. Specially because Nikon and Canon have deep pockets and can underprice just to flood models and maintain market share. You can't win against someone selling at close to zero profit - which they can do with high-end models just to maintain brand value, and sell where the meat is, low-medium tier.

When you're a small company, your strategy has to be smart, fast-moving, finding the unexplored markets you can squeeze in (entry-level, medium format). Trying to fight all fights makes you lose all.
Canonikon can't sell at zero profit to kill Pentax. That's anti-competitive and as such is illegal. The reason Pentax is the underdog is not because they're running scared of Canonikon and not trying to draw attention to themselves by taking too much market share ant thus incurring the wrath of Canonikon. They're the underdog because they can't sell enough camera's. You know that Canon is winning Pentax in the entry level market too?

QuoteQuote:
What PENTAX can and should do, in my opinion, is raise brand awareness, that from what I can read in the forums, is extremely low in USA - inside Europe looks like it's better in this regard. In Japan, they raised to a 10% market share this year, which is great considering their size. Apple owns ~6.5% worldwide, but doesn't mean they don't turn a profit or don't make high quality products. Market share alone says nothing about a company. Think about it.
Apple gained the capital to grow to where it is today because of the iPod. With that capital they made other huge leaps like the iPhone. Pentax hasn't made the iPod of dslr's. The K-5 isn't it and the K-R definitely isn't it. You have to take the first step before you can take the subsequent step otherwise you will always be making small steps while everyone around you makes large steps.
09-21-2010, 03:24 PM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by atomiccow Quote
Canonikon can't sell at zero profit to kill Pentax. That's anti-competitive and as such is illegal. The reason Pentax is the underdog is not because they're running scared of Canonikon and not trying to draw attention to themselves by taking too much market share ant thus incurring the wrath of Canonikon. They're the underdog because they can't sell enough camera's. You know that Canon is winning Pentax in the entry level market too?

Apple gained the capital to grow to where it is today because of the iPod. With that capital they made other huge leaps like the iPhone. Pentax hasn't made the iPod of dslr's. The K-5 isn't it and the K-R definitely isn't it. You have to take the first step before you can take the subsequent step otherwise you will always be making small steps while everyone around you makes large steps.
Please offer documentation to support that claim as well as a hard fast definition of what "profit" is at the corporate level.
09-21-2010, 03:31 PM   #132
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I was going to say something negative but...you all beat me.
09-21-2010, 04:10 PM   #133
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Is this where I can get bashed for anti high ISO photography comments??
09-21-2010, 04:51 PM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nubi Quote
Is this where I can get bashed for anti high ISO photography comments??
Yerp....

09-21-2010, 04:53 PM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sakura Quote
I can't phone with the K5, can't keep my adressbook up to date with the K5, can't check my mailbox with the K5.

Really, Pentax is doomed.
I tried to roll pastry with my K-x. It came out all bumpy. I hope this defect is rectified with the K-5.

Why do Pentax never listen?
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