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12-08-2011, 06:29 AM   #331
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QuoteOriginally posted by hilda4sea Quote
Hi,
Iam new K5 owner from Czech. Im switched from Canon to the Pentax, because my bag was to heavy. Now I search solution for my sport shots. Cann you tell me what lens is the best for indoor shoting. My experience with Pentax lens is horrible. The AF speed is slow. I need somethink for the distance of 10 m in the gym and moving objekt (wushu, karate, aikido etc.).
Thank you for your tips.
Hilda
Hi Hilda,
one of the best zooms for indoor sports is the Sigma 70-200 F2.8 OS HSM since it is fast (F2.8) and has very fast AF due to the HSM. I know a number of forum mebers, me included, who have this lens. I think you can find a couple of shots taken with the K5+Sigma 70-200 in this topic.

12-08-2011, 08:26 PM   #332
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I'm normally more of a street, landscape or travel photographer, but this November I learned quite a bit about sports photography with my K-5 at some colorful and dynamic festivals in Bhutan.

Lighting tended to be sufficient (sometimes harsh, sometimes nicely muted), but speed vs depth of field was still an important tradeoff. The biggest challenge came from busy backgrounds, therefore subject isolation was essential. This was mitigated by choice of shooting position, sitting close to the action and using wide angle (20mm), or by shallow depth of field using a medium telephoto (77mm at f/1.8).

In retrospect, I wish I had a professional, sports-optimized camera like Nikon or Canon with FF sensor to fully utilize my wide angles and maximize shallow depth of field. I occasionally benefited from the super-tele isolation provided by my f/4.5 300mm F, but I would have benefited most from a FF, fast-focusing camera, like a Nikon D3 or D3s with an f/1.4 24/35mm or the f/2.0 105/135mm DC. The FF sensor lets a wide angle be nice and wide, and provides shallower depth of field for the medium telephoto.

I did not use a zoom lens, which meant I had to do a lot of lens changes. Using the 50-135mm f/2.8 would have given me insufficient depth of field.

The first and third were taken with the f/1.8 31mm Limited; the second was taken with the f/2.8 20mm FA. You can see more Bhutan photgraphse at http://PhotoKinesis.INFO




Last edited by MetaD; 12-08-2011 at 08:53 PM.
12-08-2011, 10:02 PM   #333
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Ahhh, a game of Quidditch!

Last edited by selar; 12-09-2011 at 03:21 AM. Reason: Correcting mistake, this is not my photo, it is Ron's
12-08-2011, 10:11 PM   #334
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Superb, selar!

12-08-2011, 11:14 PM   #335
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Took my new (to me) Da*60-250 out for it's first jaunt as a sports lens. Local cricket club 20/20 match. My team won

These are crops as even at 250mm there is a lot of waste area. The centre wicket area is about 150mts from the fence I was shooting from.

Comments, critisism and suggestions welcomed.
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12-08-2011, 11:31 PM   #336
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QuoteOriginally posted by wizofoz Quote
These are crops as even at 250mm there is a lot of waste area. The centre wicket area is about 150mts from the fence I was shooting from.
Wayne, you may find the examples and formula in this link useful to determine subject size with FL & distance:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photography-articles/143778-subject-heigh...-position.html

Dan.
12-08-2011, 11:49 PM   #337
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QuoteOriginally posted by dosdan Quote
Wayne, you may find the examples and formula in this link useful to determine subject size with FL & distance:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photography-articles/143778-subject-heigh...-position.html

Dan.
Thanks Dan, Very useful informaton

As you know Aussie rules/cricket grounds are a lot bigger than soccer fields, rugby fields, basketball courts, almost any indoor stadia, etc. This oval, for example would be well over 200yards long, and probably almost as wide. (my original estimate of 150mts to the scene from my shooting spot may have been a little overstated..)

It looks like I need to stick to my Lil Bigma (150-500mm) for shooting from this distance.

However I'm very impressed with the IQ of the 60-250 and K-5 combination and I dont think the images lose a lot of quality from being cropped tighter.

For example here is one of the uncropped originals.
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12-09-2011, 03:20 AM   #338
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QuoteOriginally posted by dadipentak Quote
Superb, selar!
Not my photo, it belongs to Ron. I was merely commenting on his photo, that it looked like a game of Quidditch with the goalie in mid-air. A superb shot indeed from Ron!

12-09-2011, 05:28 AM   #339
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QuoteOriginally posted by selar Quote
Not my photo, it belongs to Ron. I was merely commenting on his photo, that it looked like a game of Quidditch with the goalie in mid-air. A superb shot indeed from Ron!
Ooops! Then I commend you for praising such a superior photo.
12-09-2011, 08:02 AM   #340
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QuoteOriginally posted by selar Quote
Not my photo, it belongs to Ron. I was merely commenting on his photo, that it looked like a game of Quidditch with the goalie in mid-air. A superb shot indeed from Ron!
Thanks, didn't know the term Quidditch, so I learned something too.

QuoteOriginally posted by dadipentak Quote
Ooops! Then I commend you for praising such a superior photo.
No worry's I like the Me Like points

It was a fun shot, because we hadn't see the ball and other players for a few minutes by this time I took the picture. I guess she was getting cold muscles.
12-09-2011, 02:22 PM   #341
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Wizofoz, you can get a better estimate of the distance in a shot using AOV. I normally use the height of a player, but here I'll use the stumps height. According to Law 8 in the link below, the height of cricket stumps is 71cm (28" or 2.33').

Laws of cricket - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The height of the stumps in the full-frame (i.e. not cropped, but resized) shot you posted is 55px in a 397px high frame i.e. 13.85% of frame height. The total height of the frame is thus approx. 0.71/0.1385 = 5.13m.

Exif data shows that the FL was 250mm. Using the AOV calculator here, set to the Pentax K-7 or or K20D sensor (same physical sensor size), with a FL of 250mm, I inputted a few distances until I got one that gave me a frame height ("Vertical coverage") of 5.12m. That's 82m. (82.2m gives the exact 5.13m frame height, but the measurements are not exact enough to warrant that precision.)

Pentax K-7
FL: 250mm
Subject Distance: 82m
Vertical AOV: 3.57
Vertical coverage: 5.12m

So you were about 80m away.


Using the link to the formula to determine what FL is required for the close framing of a subject at a distance, (I made a mistake there, using a FF sensor height of 24mm instead of the APS-C height of 15.6mm - I've now amended the original calculations in that post) assuming a player height of 1.8m (5'11") and 15% free space at the top & bottom (a total of 30% extra height), at 80m a FL of 680mm would be required.

80m * 0.86 (a "Frame-Fill Factor" based on a total height of 1.8m * 1.30) / 100 = 0.688m = 680mm FL

So, depending on how many subjects-of-interest are in the frame and how close you want to crop, you may still end up cropping a 500mm FL shot at this distance.

Dan.

Last edited by dosdan; 12-09-2011 at 05:43 PM.
12-09-2011, 03:44 PM   #342
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Thanks Dan.

I'll be back at that ground later today, I'll try to remember to pace out the distances involved to see how accurate your method is. It seems about right to me.

Maybe I'll need to use the 500 end of the Sigma with a 1.4 TC attached

More on topic, the K-5's hi speed shooting mode allowed me to get several shots at exactly the decisive moment....ball hitting bat, bails in the air, etc...this is a fine all rounder of a camera, there are very few things it does not excell at
12-09-2011, 05:11 PM   #343
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QuoteOriginally posted by wizofoz Quote
I'll try to remember to pace out the distances involved to see how accurate your method is. It seems about right to me.
It will work at small AOVs which is what you have with high FLs. It depends on the tan of an angle vs height relationship being reasonably linear at small angles. Say the angle subtended by the stump height is 0.5 (this is very close to what it is). It occupies 13.85% of frame height in your shot. To get the full frame height multiplier, use the reciprocal of this (1/0.1385), 7.22x.

Comparing the tans:

tan 0.5 * 7.22 = 0.0630
tan of 3.61 = 0.0631

The tan of 3.61 (0.5 * 7.22) is almost the same as the tan of 0.5 multiplied by 7.22, and is close enough for be considered the same at this precision. We're interested in the tan because we're looking at the change of height at a fixed distance and tan = height / distance.

A typical adult player standing is about 1.78m (5'10"), if wearing a small helmet about 1.8m (5'11").

Dan

Last edited by dosdan; 12-09-2011 at 05:34 PM.
12-09-2011, 05:36 PM   #344
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Sine cosine and tangent were the three things that gave me the most trouble back in the dark ages (when I was at school), so I'll leave the math to you Dan. All I need to know for now is I need a longer lens to fill the frame (or I need to get closer, I wonder if they would let me take pics and be square leg umpire at the same time?? )
12-09-2011, 05:40 PM   #345
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QuoteOriginally posted by wizofoz Quote
More on topic, the K-5's hi speed shooting mode allowed me to get several shots at exactly the decisive moment....ball hitting bat, bails in the air, etc.
Yes, I'm hoping this will be very useful when soccer season starts.

Did you fill the buffer at any times? Probably less of a problem in cricket, where you are reasonably certain of when something will occur, whereas there's less certainty about exactly when a soccer player will kick.

Dan.
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