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09-26-2010, 12:53 PM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by Big G Quote
"Oh my god" at the misinformation around the 7D and weather sealing.

Jesus, this is what gets up my nose the most on these forums - false statements perpetrated as truth, backed up with no evidence. Instant bans should be handed out to those that clearly don't know what they're talking about.

.

Exactly the link I was going to post . The 7D endured extreme conditions in this test; snow, ice, rain, subzero temperatures and never skipped a beat or had any problems regardless if it "didn't have the same sealing as a 1D series". For the record, I'm sure the K-5 and a suitable DA* would be capable of the same.
Do you call that a test? And if the big brothers are sealed better what does that mean to you? Like it or not the 7D is not sealed as well and if you shoot in the field as I do as soon as I saw the sealing not going completely around the memory card cover I knew I would not hold for years...

Snow is an easy test. A much harder test is a downpour for hours. Here is my K20D and below that my Kodak DC5000 purchased in 1999. Its fully WR with an IP rating of IP54. Its also rated for drops of 3' onto cement. Many government entities bought and used them. I still have mine and this was taken this past winter. Only to show snow is not a test! as it just sits there with no force like falling water or splashed of water.





09-26-2010, 12:56 PM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamesm007 Quote
The extended warranty as I have does not exclude water damage Its a perk of buying the two year warranty (for a total of 3 in the USA). It also includes a free tune up anytime during that time. But back to the point. The basic warranty has exclusions, sure but its only to protect themselves, not that they think it will leak with normal use. The extended warranty covers everything but cosmetic wear and tear, nice The owners manual says splash proof, and gives the operating temps. This is all you need to know.
Not gonna get into a game of vague wording in warranties here...because try and get your Pentax fixed under warranty in the event of water damage...then come back and say it's covered. Sound fair?

And everyone here knows about the not so free body cleaning and adjustment with the extended warranty. it's free but you need to send Pentax $19.99 to cover shipping...Shipping via Priority Mail to CRIS in AZ is about $11 with insurance for me...so I am paying HoyaTax for the "free" service...I am not saying it's a bad deal, nope it's a super deal, but it's an example of inaccurate descriptions and how people choose to read an agreement. The language is written specifically to the advantage of the mfg not the consumer. I am sure it has been argued in court but probably not far enough because of the cost, but no contract is valid if it is too much in favor of one party, in this case it could be argued that these mfg's (canon included) are actually not really covering what they claim, or summed up they warranty nothing. That is not a valid contract but few people have the resources to argue that in front of a judge and win. Pentax has a building full of legal people to handle it all on retainer or staff so they can wield them like a bludgeon on the smaller party.

I will re-read the extended warranty to see if it specifically states water damage is covered AND that the terms of the extended warranty supersedes the 1-yr warranty in any fashion beyond extending that 1-yr warranty an added 2-years.

But not going to keep this going unless I read different in the extended warranty.
09-26-2010, 01:03 PM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by Big G Quote
"Oh my god" at the misinformation around the 7D and weather sealing.

Jesus, this is what gets up my nose the most on these forums - false statements perpetrated as truth, backed up with no evidence. Instant bans should be handed out to those that clearly don't know what they're talking about.

.

Exactly the link I was going to post . The 7D endured extreme conditions in this test; snow, ice, rain, subzero temperatures and never skipped a beat or had any problems regardless if it "didn't have the same sealing as a 1D series". For the record, I'm sure the K-5 and a suitable DA* would be capable of the same.
You do realize the person testing this camera is paid and left Canon for Nikon not so long ago?
09-26-2010, 01:10 PM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by brecklundin Quote
Not gonna get into a game of vague wording in warranties here...because try and get your Pentax fixed under warranty in the event of water damage...then come back and say it's covered. Sound fair?

And everyone here knows about the not so free body cleaning and adjustment with the extended warranty. it's free but you need to send Pentax $19.99 to cover shipping...Shipping via Priority Mail to CRIS in AZ is about $11 with insurance for me...so I am paying HoyaTax for the "free" service...I am not saying it's a bad deal, nope it's a super deal, but it's an example of inaccurate descriptions and how people choose to read an agreement. The language is written specifically to the advantage of the mfg not the consumer. I am sure it has been argued in court but probably not far enough because of the cost, but no contract is valid if it is too much in favor of one party, in this case it could be argued that these mfg's (canon included) are actually not really covering what they claim, or summed up they warranty nothing. That is not a valid contract but few people have the resources to argue that in front of a judge and win. Pentax has a building full of legal people to handle it all on retainer or staff so they can wield them like a bludgeon on the smaller party.

I will re-read the extended warranty to see if it specifically states water damage is covered AND that the terms of the extended warranty supersedes the 1-yr warranty in any fashion beyond extending that 1-yr warranty an added 2-years.

But not going to keep this going unless I read different in the extended warranty.
Read the link below. The extended warranty supersedes the 1-yr warranty according to how it written. There are two warranties. One, the standard one year. Two, the extended two for a total of 3 years. Each has its own terms and conditions.

Warranty and Repairs - Official PENTAX Imaging Web Site

09-26-2010, 01:16 PM   #95
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thanks james...I'll give it a read...I would LOVE that I am wrong...but anymore I tend to believe the worst of all companies. And to be candid, the past week from Pentax and their PR Chinese Fire Drill has me less than, ummmm, enthusiastic...know what I mean?
09-26-2010, 01:39 PM   #96
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QuoteQuote:
Extended Warranties
PENTAX Imaging Company offers optional Extended Limited Warranty coverage on select DSLRs and Optio series cameras.

The PENTAX Extended Limited Warranty includes one complete check-up to be provided anytime during the warranty period. The inspection covers all camera functions to ensure each meets factory specifications. You must keep a copy of your extended warranty card along with a copy of your original purchase receipt to receive warranty service.

For Factory Service, please send to:
PENTAX SERVICE DEPARTMENT:
250 N. 54th Street
Chandler, AZ 85226

In your package, please include the following:
A. A copy of the Extended Warranty Card.
B. A copy of your dated proof of purchase (sales receipt, charge slip, etc.).
C. A note describing the problem with a complete return address.
D. All necessary items, such as batteries or other items related to the problem.
E. Any sample pictures. Please include your memory card with images that show the problem.
F. A check or money order in the amount of $19.95 to cover shipping and handling.
NOT VALID IN FLORIDA, THE COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA OR WHERE PROHIBITED BY LAW

Extended Warranty Statement
1. The extended limited warranty is registered with PENTAX Imaging Company. It is not refundable or transferable and is only valid if received at the same time as the purchase of a new PENTAX Camera, which is covered by a PENTAX New Product One-Year Limited Warranty. This extended warranty applies only to the PENTAX Cameras distributed solely by the U.S. distributor, PENTAX Imaging Company, 600 12th Street, Suite 300, Golden, Colorado 80401 and purchased from a PENTAX authorized dealer.

2. PENTAX Imaging Company warrants to the original purchaser the product, once registration is completed, to operate according to factory specifications for a period of three years from the original date of purchase (one-year standard + two-year extended). This warranty is limited to the repair, adjustment or replacement of defective parts at PENTAX's option.

3. Furthermore, PENTAX will provide, at no charge, one complete check-up at any time during the warranty period. This includes inspection of all camera functions to see that they meet factory specifications.

4. This warranty shall NOT apply if it is shown by PENTAX that the defect or malfunction was caused by damage resulting from operation of the product contrary to instructions contained in the owner's manual, or any misuse or abuse of the product. Also, this warranty does not cover any defect which has occurred as a result of any modification or servicing performed by anyone other than PENTAX Imaging Company. Routine cleaning and normal cosmetic and mechanical wear are not covered under the terms of this warranty, except as described under #3 above.

5. PENTAX 's sole responsibility is as set forth above. PENTAX SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES (such as damaged memory cards, processing, travel, batteries, etc.) RESULTING FROM ANY BREACH OF WARRANTY, EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, APPLICABLE TO THIS PRODUCT. Since some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of consequential or incidental damages, this limitation may not apply to you.

6. If this product needs service, pack it carefully, using ample packing material to prevent damage during shipment, and mail it to the PENTAX Service Center, postage prepaid and insured. NOTE: PENTAX Imaging Company will not assume the responsibility for damages or loss encountered in transit, but will assist the sender in processing any claims whenever possible.

NOT VALID IN FLORIDA,THE COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA OR WHERE PROHIBITED BY LAW. THIS U.S.A. EXTENDED WARRANTY IS ONLY VALID WHEN CAMERA IS SENT TO PENTAX IMAGING COMPANY.
I included the warranty verbiage for reference.

First the free service visit requires a $19.95 fee, as that is stated in item F above. So even if #3 in the list of what is covered by the extended warranty states the cleaning/service is "free", it's not 100% the case. Still for the cost, $20, it's a great bargain.

I see nothing in the extended warranty that enhances the original warranty, in fact it specifically uses the original warranty as the reference for what is covered and what is not. So, it's open to interpretation to a point but in the end Pentax likely won't cover a water damaged DSLR. If you are lucky a CRIS service person who got laid that weekend might cover it under warranty if they get it on a Monday, but really, how much can one rely on that confluence of events...hehehehe...

But we have also read posts from people who had their warranty service, under the extended warranty period, denied due to water damage. That is because, if you read #4 above it states the coverage is exactly the same as found in the owners manual. And the owners manual does exclude water damage. This makes sense because I don't see any benefit to the company to have a more extensive extended warranty which is often used as a free incentive for the DSLR bodies. In fact it could be argued that a 3rd party warranty from say, Square Trade, with accidental damage coverage is a better value even if it costs $50-$100 vs. the free (or even when sold for $20) Pentax extended warranty.

So, what is the answer? Guess I won't know until I use it or need it...here is hoping the tech "got some" that weekend before my camera reaches the workbench.
09-26-2010, 02:00 PM   #97
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Problem is some Optio cameras are water-proof. And the owners manual says this is a splash-proof and dust resistant camera. Once I had dust behind my LCD cover the the rep at Pentax said send it in as this is a dust and weather-resistant dSLR and let them check it out. I changed the leaking LCD cover myself. But yes its a real grey area once into some of the wording in the owners manual and extended warranty.

The extended warranty says "This warranty shall NOT apply if it is shown by PENTAX that the defect or malfunction was caused by damage resulting from operation of the product contrary to instructions contained in the owner's manual, or any misuse or abuse of the product. The owners manual says depending on the camera that you can take it under water? So yea... up to the tech ... but without an extended warranty the tech is going to need a weekend never to forget lol

Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/115472-what-about-...#ixzz10fgx9Ww7
09-26-2010, 03:12 PM - 1 Like   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamesm007 Quote
Do you call that a test?
Yes.

QuoteOriginally posted by jamesm007 Quote
You do realize the person testing this camera is paid and left Canon for Nikon not so long ago?
Yes.

WAIT A MINUTE, you mean that guy got paid by Canon to lie about the weather sealing?

Well so did this guy:


It's all lies and fabrication - I mean, documented field tests versus a fanboy bleating about a camera he doesn't even own. I'm more inclined to call BS on the tests and go with fanboyish tendancies.

QuoteOriginally posted by jamesm007 Quote
Like it or not the 7D is not sealed as well
Prove it please or stop posting unfounded trash.

09-26-2010, 04:23 PM   #99
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Fanboy talk always ruins a good discussion.
09-26-2010, 04:42 PM   #100
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awwwww....guys, lets not have another good discussion gone contentious. James and I were at opposites on the warranty thing but we still had a pleasant discussion. It's rare to find someone to discuss things in a fun fashion, especially when we may disagree.

I guess it's just been too angry around here for me right now and I just miss the fun discussions...even Peter took exception to things earlier and he is a really good guy on PF...but the constant contention rather than discussion, well, it gets to us all eventually. And yeah, I am being sort of a Pollyanna right now but sometimes that is not a bad thing.

I know what James is trying to show but we aren't talking about the Optio (anyone remember the guy in Russia or Ukraine that used his Optio as a lure for what looked to be some sort of muskie or pike? THAT was proof that beastie might well be the toughest beast in the cage...still it's just a camera and we are all a bit confused and spring loaded to the pissed-off position right now sooooo....well, you get my point.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhbCviETMPE[/yt]
09-26-2010, 04:50 PM   #101
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Wow, this is getting pretty heated. Let's keep it simple guys....

1. Are the 7D and the K-5 both weather sealed? yes

2. Is the sealing on the K-5 better than that on the 7D? On paper, yes. I would give the nudge to pentax on this one.

3. Has the sealing on the possibly slightly inferior 7D proven itself? Yes, as has been provided for in the many examples.

4. Does the 7D have a better autofocus system? Yes, I believe so overall. It has 19 cross-type AF points while the K-5 will have 11 points, only 9 of them cross type. The 7D also has the ability to adjust the sensitive in Ai-Servo mode (Canon's AF-C) to user preference and has the ability to use spot AF amongst many other AF options. Have there been problems with 7D AF? Yes, I've seen some reports from users but it seems to perform admirably in general and this is more the exception than the rule in my opinion.

5. Is the K-5 better at high ISO? That is really yet to be determined. It may have a slight edge, but we need to remember that this is an APS-C sensor. People get caught up in hype sometimes when we see the high ISO values the cameras are allowed to expand to. The results I have seen on the smaller sensors at any ISO above 6400 I would not bother using 90% of the time. I know that it is sometimes important to just get the shot, but in my use I rarely keep the shot if it looks like crap... Hopefully I'm proven wrong and the new sensor really does provide a useable 12800, we'll have to see.

A lot of the bell and whistle comparisons don't matter to me. I care about AF, high ISO performance, FPS, and camera build and ergonomics. Other than that, they are all just cameras basically to me. And about weather sealing...I would settle for the 7D's weather sealing compared to my 40D. But, to be honest, I've shot my 40D in the rain before with no issues and I've seen a picture of a 30D submerged completely in snow that kept working. I've also heard of XXD cameras crapping out in bad weather and know somebody who's 5D mark II completely malfunctioned after getting hit by a wave on the edge of the ocean while shooting landscapes.
09-27-2010, 10:18 PM   #102
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I've been measurbating 7D RAW files over the past few days and I have to say that I am genuinely impressed with the IQ of this camera.

It is one of the few APS-C camera's that outresolved the D700 in terms of resolution, matches it's speed with an above average noise and DR performance.

Additionally, based on the A55's ISO100 RAW samples, I think the K-5 will come close enough to the 7D in resolution since the A55 can be coaxed into almost the exact seem level of detail. However... the real gain will most likely be in the noise and DR dept. Though, the 7D's performance score(8FPS with plenty of buffer to spare) certainly counts for something in ones evaluation when all is said and done.

TBH. If I was in the market, I'd be hard pressed to choose a D700 over the 7D given it's speed and video capabilities. My only concern with the unit would really come down to the ergonomics(how sad is that?).

But most of all I like the 7D most for it's price! Here in Canada, a person can grab a pair of work machines for less than 3200 dollars!
Which is quite amazing considering what your getting.

Anyways, there's no way I'm ready to give up my Pentax primes just yet, and I'll most likely go with the K-5 this year(despite it all). Though I must say.... after having worked with a K-5 ISO6400 RAW file, I couldn't see myself ever going back to anything less(it is just that amazing, adictive even!). And I can't wait to see what I get out of that sensor with my best glass. It's definitely going to be interesting!
09-27-2010, 11:46 PM   #103
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Can't wait to try out the K-5 with an FA 43 Ltd, DA 70 Ltd or DA*50-135.
I'm pretty sure its going to be amazing....

Now...there's this little problem I have with 8 frames RAW buffer, but still hopeful it will turn out well.
09-28-2010, 06:55 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
I've been measurbating 7D RAW files over the past few days and I have to say that I am genuinely impressed with the IQ of this camera.

.... after having worked with a K-5 ISO6400 RAW file, I couldn't see myself ever going back to anything less(it is just that amazing, adictive even!)
Just got my 7D yesterday and have been doing tons of tests with ISO. Tethering is addicting. Just letting the camera sit there on the tripod while I can manipulate everything from the computer. I will be using that feature a lot. But yes I know what you mean by ISO 6400 being addicting. ISO 6400 is about the same as ISO 1200 on my K200D is....The K200 was just plain awful for ISO. ISO 12k on the 7D is about equal to ISO 1600 on the K200D. I can't really tell a difference in ISO till I hit about 2500 on the 7D. It's quite an amazing camera. I used it for about 3 hours yesterday and took about 300 pictures, and at the end of the day it started to weigh a little more than I wanted. But I'm sure out in the field I will be wearing a neck strap instead of carrying it around. I think I will be getting an R-Strap, they look quite nice.
09-28-2010, 07:09 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by kittykat46 Quote
Now...there's this little problem I have with 8 frames RAW buffer, but still hopeful it will turn out well.
I am in the same boat as you with that(8 Frames).
It's definitely going to affect my shooting style and I'm most likely going to keep my K20's for a while.

My last ditch hope with respect to total shots in buffer is with the new SDxC cards. I really hoping that the performance gains will add a few frames to the entire affair and perhaps even make controlled bursts more possible.

I honestly don't know how much control we have with a 1 second window

To say the least, I am very disappointed with Pentax at this level. I mean... this is almost as bad as the K-7 sensor indent of 2009!
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