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10-03-2010, 10:35 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by xjjohnno Quote
Personally I'd prefer seeing decent product development rather then competing with companies that have much deeper pockets for advertising wars. Product reputation is the best marketing tool a company can have.

Completely agree. The millions Pentx would spend in marketing (in a battle it would always lose against the giants) is better spent on development of great cameras.

Pentax has it's own niche and it's solid. Why battle with the much bigger companies and possibly lose your niche in the process?

10-03-2010, 10:39 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Indecent Exposure Quote
Nothing,

It has to do with the working side.


Do you work as a photographer? I do! Think about it.

My thoughts are. You will reply with something you will know nothing about!
I'm not a "pro", hell I don't even consider myself that good. Could you elaborate for a plebeian like me? I tend to agree with tuco, how does marketing affect your business? I can understand If it's wanting to ensure the continued existence of your choice of camera or that more marketing will lead to more money for Pentax to invest in R&D, and eventually new products. However, I have to wonder why a "pro" would buy into a system that doesn't already meet their needs or why there would be much hesitation to switch brands if it would actually affect you're bottom line. If it's public perception, does camera brand really matter more than the photos you take? If so, then why not switch, it's just a tool. I can't help but feel a bit of condescension in your post, maybe it was unintentional. Tuco is certainly capable of taking "pro" quality photos, whether he gets paid for it seems irrelevant.

Also, what about the K-5 "Sit's Canon and Nikon Straight back on their ass"? It seems like a great camera, and certainly worthy of our support and Hoya's ad dollars, but I can't help but feel there's a bit of hyperbole going on here.

I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer. I agree the the K-5, k-R, and 645D look great and Pentax could use more advertising, for sure.

Edit: After doing a little research, I feel like such a dummy. I thought the troll was a real person, I can't believe I offered it food.

Last edited by Vertex Ninja; 10-04-2010 at 08:15 AM.
10-03-2010, 10:51 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by luke0622 Quote
It seems Pentax USA is not doing enough Marketing work here in the States...
95% of the Advertisement and promotion in the U.S.A. is done by Pentax Imaging's web site. Web Sites such as this one probably do as much.

Edit: Even the most recent AD at PentaxImaging is this one.

http://www.pentaxian.com/pdf/ads/Martini_K20D_K200D.pdf

That ads haven't been as bad in the past as some people think. The problem has been getting them out there, and in the right venue. These are some very good Ads.

http://www.pentaxian.com/pdf/ads/PEN_1327_LBA_Poster.pdf

http://www.pentaxian.com/pdf/ads/PEN_1327_Lousy_Poster.pdf

Last edited by Blue; 10-03-2010 at 12:12 PM.
10-03-2010, 11:41 AM   #34
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I think one of the big things that's inconvenient for Pentax really is the lack of retail these days: I think actually handling these cameras, especially across the same price range, is a big selling-point they don't get to take much advantage of.

(I don't really know how the other brands are doing now on this count: I haven't met anyone with brand-new stuff in a while. But people really do respond well to the feel and ergonomics. I took my chances via mail order, (having had a favorable impression of a different model in a store, I figured they know what they're doing. )

Personally, I put a lot of stock in handling and feel: more, probably, than having the top specs: it helps things go smoothly and put me in the right frame of mind for good work, so I think Pentax ought to make the old 'Just hold one' slogan work somehow. Which would involve making this possible.

10-03-2010, 12:05 PM   #35
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They just hired a new digital advertising agency in the US, so they'll need some time to embed themselves with Pentax corporate. Plus, the K-5 has been announced but not yet released. Say what you will about the management of the product announcement, but the most important push will happen once you can add the camera to your shopping basket.

We're hitting holiday season as well as deductible expense season soon, so it will interesting to see how the new ad agency gets the word out on the K-5, K-r, K-x, and P&S line. Pentax's digital marketing strategy is especially critical because they don't have a strong retail presence - I hope the new guys are burning the midnight oil right now and get it right...
10-03-2010, 02:46 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
You would think Ned would be blogging the heck out of the Star Award at Photokina. :HornetNest:

You would also think that Pentax might mention the honor on its website.
10-03-2010, 03:05 PM   #37
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Well considering how net savvy most people in the developed world are and increasingly so in the developing world, it makes sense to leverage upon the online digital media channel to deliver advance information as it caters to a potential audience of millions. That said, it makes no sense to spend on above or below the line marketing until the product is actually launched and available in stores.

Remember the DA* 16-50mm f/2.8 and DA* 50-135mm f/2.8 launches in the past? There was so much pent up demand for the two lenses that demand outstripped production and Pentax had to issue a press release to explain the delay to disgruntled would be buyers. Whether Pentax underestimated the market or had production capacity constraints, when Pentax finally released them, they could not meet the overwhelming demand. The upshot of it all was Pentax got plenty of flak for it. It was somewhat the same situation for the colored K-x cameras when they were first announced, so I would expect that Pentax would have learnt from the previous product launches and aggressively market only when the product is actually shipped. What's the point of generating excessive hype and driving up consumer demand if the consumer cannot go out and buy it tomorrow?

Last edited by creampuff; 10-03-2010 at 03:10 PM.
10-03-2010, 03:48 PM   #38
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What do you all think? Should Hoya/Pentax be courting the Pro side of the business? I'm saying this because it seems that the consumer is buying Nikon and Canon, because of the idea that they are buying the cameras that the pros use. Even though what they are buying are usually dumbed down versions of what the pros use, but it has the same brand name as what the pros use. I'm not saying that Hoya/Pentax's K-x and K-r models are dumbed down versions of their pro/enthusiast line, but rather the consumer version of the pro/enthusiast K10, K20, K7 and K5. I think that if consumers saw Pentax cameras in the hands of more pros and serious armatures, then the average consumer might have their consciousness raised when it came to considering a K-x or a K-r. What do you all think?

10-03-2010, 05:16 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by jimH Quote
What do you all think? Should Hoya/Pentax be courting the Pro side of the business? I'm saying this because it seems that the consumer is buying Nikon and Canon, because of the idea that they are buying the cameras that the pros use. Even though what they are buying are usually dumbed down versions of what the pros use, but it has the same brand name as what the pros use. I'm not saying that Hoya/Pentax's K-x and K-r models are dumbed down versions of their pro/enthusiast line, but rather the consumer version of the pro/enthusiast K10, K20, K7 and K5. I think that if consumers saw Pentax cameras in the hands of more pros and serious armatures, then the average consumer might have their consciousness raised when it came to considering a K-x or a K-r. What do you all think?
Pros will use whatever gear that can get the job done. If they can get it sponsored or free all the better, seriously speaking. That's because photography is first and foremost a livelihood and a business and getting gear sponsored or free means they are spared the capital expenditure that they would have to fork out themselves.

Nikon and Canon have long adopted the pyramid of influence marketing model by getting working pros to use their cameras. That gives the implication that the cameras are rugged and able to withstand the rigours of use in different conditions and environments. It also helps to let the masses think and believe (naively I might add) that the cameras they buy have a pro heritage and that they could somehow achieve results like that of professionals using the said cameras. Much like buying Nike golf clubs because somehow I can miraculously hit and shape the golf ball like Tiger Woods does with his Nike golf clubs. Heck if Tiger uses it, it must be good..., nevermind all the endorsement money that Nike gives to him to use their clubs as opposed to other brands

For a pro they want an extensive and flexible camera system and pro support. Currently Pentax cannot offer as wide a range of lenses as its competitors, though that might change in the future. Same for pro support. One major area that needs improvement that Pentax lags behind is its flash system, which doesn't make it the automatic choice for pros shooting events, weddings and portraiture and other forms of shooting requiring flash photography. I'll hazard to say a lot of working shooters who do use Pentax use it as a second system.

Pentax of old has long lost the opportunity of capitalizing its position as a market leader in the consumer segment in 35mm film cameras to develop professional grade models and attract pros to use the brand. Historically speaking we all know the LX was hopelessly late and never as rugged compared to the uber reliable Nikon F3. The rot started a long time ago but the old Pentax management were oblivious to it.

Frankly I'm not worried because Pentax (under Hoya) knows it cannot hope to go head-to head to match the offerings from Canikon but has picked it's spots in producing cameras that capitalize gaps in the overall camera market. It must first and foremost regain the mass market first to increase the user base. With such a base it will have the financial means to develop new products and a user base to buy them. Servicing the pros can come later.

Last edited by creampuff; 10-03-2010 at 05:22 PM.
10-03-2010, 05:34 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Pros will use whatever gear that can get the job done. If they can get it sponsored or free all the better, seriously speaking. That's because photography is first and foremost a livelihood and a business and getting gear sponsored or free means they are spared the capital expenditure that they would have to fork out themselves.

Nikon and Canon have long adopted the pyramid of influence marketing model by getting working pros to use their cameras. That gives the implication that the cameras are rugged and able to withstand the rigours of use in different conditions and environments. It also helps to let the masses think and believe (naively I might add) that the cameras they buy have a pro heritage and that they could somehow achieve results like that of professionals using the said cameras. Much like buying Nike golf clubs because somehow I can miraculously hit and shape the golf ball like Tiger Woods does with his Nike golf clubs. Heck if Tiger uses it, it must be good..., nevermind all the endorsement money that Nike gives to him to use their clubs as opposed to other brands

For a pro they want an extensive and flexible camera system and pro support. Currently Pentax cannot offer as wide a range of lenses as its competitors, though that might change in the future. Same for pro support. One major area that needs improvement that Pentax lags behind is its flash system, which doesn't make it the automatic choice for pros shooting events, weddings and portraiture and other forms of shooting requiring flash photography. I'll hazard to say a lot of working shooters who do use Pentax use it as a second system.

Pentax of old has long lost the opportunity of capitalizing its position as a market leader in the consumer segment in 35mm film cameras to develop professional grade models and attract pros to use the brand. Historically speaking we all know the LX was hopelessly late and never as rugged compared to the uber reliable Nikon F3. The rot started a long time ago but the old Pentax management were oblivious to it.

Frankly I'm not worried because Pentax (under Hoya) knows it cannot hope to go head-to head to match the offerings from Canikon but has picked it's spots in producing cameras that capitalize gaps in the overall camera market. It must first and foremost regain the mass market first to increase the user base. With such a base it will have the financial means to develop new products and a user base to buy them. Servicing the pros can come later.
At the risk of this post getting too long, first I have to agree with you on all of your points. As I see it, from a Pro standpoint, Pentax is lacking a real Pro support organization. I think that Canikon has far surpassed Pentax in the support and servicing of their equipment. First of all Pentax needs to get really serious about the business, take care of their customers and adopt a more "Western" attitude about customer service. I love the Pentax equipment that I have, but my Son-in-law has both Canon and Nikon cameras that are at least as good, if not better than my Pentax, if you don't include "build quality". He dropped his Nikon D90 and fractured the lens mount. Sent it in and in a matter of a week had it back fully repaired. Had that happened to a Pentax, it would still be languishing at the repair shop awaiting approval for repair or parts.
10-03-2010, 05:44 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by jimH Quote
As I see it, from a Pro standpoint, Pentax is lacking a real Pro support organization.
I think there's a lot of truth to this.
10-03-2010, 06:01 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by dadipentak Quote
I think there's a lot of truth to this.
Dave, I looked at your portfolio and I think that it's great! You've got a lot of very fine images there! you've got a great eye. Congratulations.
10-03-2010, 06:51 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by jimH Quote
As I see it, from a Pro standpoint, Pentax is lacking a real Pro support organization. I think that Canikon has far surpassed Pentax in the support and servicing of their equipment.
I don't know whether my story is typical or not, but I was one of those new to DSLR guys that was thinking of a Canikon, but went with the wonderful feeling K-x. That being said, I have pushed myself in photography, even to the point where I was given offers to do some real work with it. Due to that, I'm now caught with exactly what you expressed: the fact that Pentax currently lacks any pro-support whether it be their flash system or even being able to rent out equipment on the fly.

So, as much as I might love the K-5 and as good as a camera it may turn out being, I feel like I might have to switch out to Canikon if I wanted to take things more pro. I bought into the Pentax family and now I feel kind of trapped.

In case this incites a bunch of "hey, but Im pro and I use pentax" responses, I get the feeling that yes, pro with Pentax with possible, but probably far less troublesome with a Canikon system.
10-03-2010, 07:19 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
I'll hazard to say a lot of working shooters who do use Pentax use it as a second system. Pentax of old has long lost the opportunity of capitalizing its position as a market leader in the consumer segment in 35mm film cameras to develop professional grade models and attract pros to use the brand. Historically speaking we all know the LX was hopelessly late and never as rugged compared to the uber reliable Nikon F3. The rot started a long time ago but the old Pentax management were oblivious to it.
I do use pentax DSLR cameras alongside my canon and nikon cameras mainly because the K-7 is small quick and it has the extremely useful TAv mode which I use a lot. While I agree that the he Pentax LX was behind the game,however just take a look at what Nikon made after the F3 - the F4 which had the ergonomics of two bricks lashed together with duct tape. Pentax really isn't in the habit of making large and bulky cameras. Nikon tried to make a small camera like pentax, the result was the Nikon FM - 10 which was actually made by cosina(the body snatcher of the camera world) and to be honest as small as it was it was a pretty average camera.

Speaking of bricks, my Nikon,canon cameras and lenses are massive compared to their pentax equivalents(and my FF Leica M9 and it's lenses are even smaller than that, though not by much I might add) in the end the best camera is the one you are most comfortable lugging around all day and more often than not I reach for the pentax.

Last edited by Digitalis; 10-03-2010 at 07:27 PM.
10-03-2010, 08:55 PM   #45
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Having returned home from quite a wonderful Sports weekend.

Something holds true about Pentax. On the sidelines at the Michigan Indiana football game on Saturday. The press photographers again chuckled " here she is again with her (cough, cough, cough,) Pentax equipment. All 30 or so of these photographers, which I work with on a regular basis, take great fun in poking fun at this. While they run around with their C&N equipment. Boasting their greatest new hard on's in camera equipment

But my next assignment on Sunday took me to the (cough, cough, cough,) Detroit lions @ Packers Game. While unpacking my F* 250-600 from its case another photographer that was also at the Indiana venue. Cracked off a comment of "are you still shooting with those old crap Pentax lenses?"

Another photographer in our group shot back at him " then why the hell is she more published than all of us as a whole?"" Might it be she uses Pentax?"

Not one of them took the time to notice the black tape over the branding on the camera body.
They were to busy poking fun at me for using Pentax. Except the one who noticed.

By now Pentax/Hoya has figured out who I am, but after 30 some years of devotion and cooperation to this brand. Why not use true story about Pentax in the field of the real world?

The response to this should be quite a good read.

Last edited by Indecent Exposure; 10-03-2010 at 09:43 PM.
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