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10-05-2010, 06:15 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by janneman Quote
But still marketing = cost.....
Every cent and penny spent in any company, be it marketing, be it paperclips, toiletpaper has to be paid. That penny and cent wil be taken from the money earned by products. Therefore any penny spent will rais the price of any product ever so slightly. Also marketing. Nothing is free. It may generate more profit in the end but that does not mean that marketing cost is not calculated in the price.
The idea with marketing is that it will increase sales, which will lower cost of production and R&D per sold unit.
If marketing is done right you will earn more in increased sales than the cost for the marketing. The increased earnings can then be spent on R&D, production and marketing.

10-05-2010, 06:31 AM   #62
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QuoteQuote:
But still marketing = cost.....
I guess we could look at that statement two ways.

Let's say that a wonderful product was being manufactured that would fit your need perfectly, however you have never heard of it and don't know anything about it, who makes it, what are it's good qualities, how it would fill your needs, and to top it off the company who makes it doesn't tell anyone about it, what are the chances that you will purchase that item?

But on the other hand, this same very fine product is sitting on a local dealers shelf and you see ads for it in newspapers, magazines and Ashton Kutcher gets all giddy about having one of them in a TV ad. Now, under which scenario would you be more likely to be able to purchase this particular item?

How much did not marketing the product cost in the first scenario and how much did marketing cost in the second scenario?

Given, that under the first scenario, the company didn't sell the very good item that they spent millions to develop, so all that development money, manufacturing money was wasted.

But under the second scenario, the company was able to spread the marketing cost, development cost and manufacturing cost over millions of units sold? All because they made their potential customers aware that the product (that fit their needs perfectly) was available and could be purchased. And they did this through "Marketing". Did marketing cost the company or did it pay the company?
10-05-2010, 06:33 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Why does it bother you? Who cares if everyone else doesn't know about it. Is there some need to be on the "winning side"?

i dunno if any one has already said this..but if pentax marginalize themselves too much. the third party vendors wont bother producing their products for a ever dwindling Pentax market....try and rent a pentax lens in aussie, as the market is so small the vendors dont supply Pentax lens to rent, also if Tamron or sigma stopped producing Pentax mounted lenses...that would hurt a lot of users
10-05-2010, 06:47 AM   #64
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In a consumerism-based society, with the market being already soaked with gear beyond any reasonable level to the point that "photographer" as a profession is at risk of instinction (at least some niches of photography).... it takes a lot of effort to sell anything.

As a designer I can design some beautiful stuff... Actually I do have a couple of great products that, i'm sure, there's a global demand for... but it has to be marketed properly and that's the part at which i'm not that good at... On the other hand, there are people who never held a hammer in their hand, but can sell their grandma to the devil... Something that Pentax might certainly benefit from... especially in North America because here Pentax has been loosing grounds a lot lately...

10-05-2010, 10:17 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by alexeyga Quote
On the other hand, there are people who never held a hammer in their hand, but can sell their grandma to the devil...
Microsoft is not necessarily the best software, but the marketing has made Bill Gates and others (including distributors and retailers!) lots of money. Marketing is only a waste of money if it does not increase sales, increase brand awareness, and increase profitability.
R & D and manufacturing is a waste of money if the product is not marketed.
10-06-2010, 05:48 AM   #66
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the pentax rep at photokina

10-06-2010, 06:29 AM   #67
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This is why us professional marketers who actually know what they're talking about do ROI calculations before spending a penny, and measure the return on everything we do. I'm literally in the middle of my marketing plan next year. I know where I'm going to spend every penny, which months I'll spend it, what the return will be, how the sales cycle will go next year, and how much I'll increase the company's profits by this time next year.

I can tell you what the pipeline for each month will be, per person and product line, how it will be achieved, and how long purchasers will wait between lead opportunity and purchase. Without me being detailed & obsessive about our marketing activity, this company would have gone under in the recession 18 months ago. A fact that takes me 5 minutes to demonstrate by plotting 2 yr company sales against my leadgen sources.
10-06-2010, 06:48 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcmsox2004 Quote
the pentax rep at photokina
+1

:3stooges:

10-06-2010, 06:56 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by jimH Quote
I guess we could look at that statement two ways.

Let's say that a wonderful product was being manufactured that would fit your need perfectly, however you have never heard of it and don't know anything about it, who makes it, what are it's good qualities, how it would fill your needs, and to top it off the company who makes it doesn't tell anyone about it, what are the chances that you will purchase that item?

But on the other hand, this same very fine product is sitting on a local dealers shelf and you see ads for it in newspapers, magazines and Ashton Kutcher gets all giddy about having one of them in a TV ad. Now, under which scenario would you be more likely to be able to purchase this particular item?

How much did not marketing the product cost in the first scenario and how much did marketing cost in the second scenario?

Given, that under the first scenario, the company didn't sell the very good item that they spent millions to develop, so all that development money, manufacturing money was wasted.

But under the second scenario, the company was able to spread the marketing cost, development cost and manufacturing cost over millions of units sold? All because they made their potential customers aware that the product (that fit their needs perfectly) was available and could be purchased. And they did this through "Marketing". Did marketing cost the company or did it pay the company?

A company also has to be able to get product to market. The people at the end have to know its there. This is why a marketing plan by a company that knows what the hell they are doing is important. Product stuck at the factory is also adding cost to the product because it messes with the supply and demand scenario. There are a lot of costs in making products and marketing is one of them as is shipping.

However, A bottled water company doesn't need someone that can sell water in the desert running the marketing. In the U.S., Pentax is missing delivery and marketing. It currently consists of me comparing prices at Adorama and BH with Pentax Imaging, and waiting for UPS or USPS to deliver it.
10-06-2010, 07:17 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
The idea with marketing is that it will increase sales, which will lower cost of production and R&D per sold unit.
If marketing is done right you will earn more in increased sales than the cost for the marketing. The increased earnings can then be spent on R&D, production and marketing.
Couldn't this be said about almost anything a company spends money on though? It either makes them money or loses them money. I could be wrong, but I don't think marketing is treated differently than any other expense on a balance sheet. However, I'm not a real business man, just an arm chair one today.
10-06-2010, 07:24 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vertex Ninja Quote
Couldn't this be said about almost anything a company spends money on though? It either makes them money or loses them money. I could be wrong, but I don't think marketing is treated differently than any other expense on a balance sheet. However, I'm not a real business man, just an arm chair one today.
Exactly. Its hard to sell something people don't know about and/or can't get.
10-06-2010, 08:29 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vertex Ninja Quote
Couldn't this be said about almost anything a company spends money on though? It either makes them money or loses them money. I could be wrong, but I don't think marketing is treated differently than any other expense on a balance sheet. However, I'm not a real business man, just an arm chair one today.
That is true, but without marketing it is very hard to increase sales, or know what products the market demands.
The history has showed many times that "worse products" can be more popular if the marketing is done right.
10-06-2010, 10:25 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nass Quote
This is why us professional marketers who actually know what they're talking about do ROI calculations before spending a penny, and measure the return on everything we do. I'm literally in the middle of my marketing plan next year. I know where I'm going to spend every penny, which months I'll spend it, what the return will be, how the sales cycle will go next year, and how much I'll increase the company's profits by this time next year.

I can tell you what the pipeline for each month will be, per person and product line, how it will be achieved, and how long purchasers will wait between lead opportunity and purchase. Without me being detailed & obsessive about our marketing activity, this company would have gone under in the recession 18 months ago. A fact that takes me 5 minutes to demonstrate by plotting 2 yr company sales against my leadgen sources.
Exactly. There is good historical data on the response and conversion rates of any number of media - direct mail, print ads, emails, banner ads, etc. Pentax should have years of data on which to base their decisions off of.

It's not rocket science, nor is it just Super Bowl ads and giving out cameras to well known photographers and bloggers. It's somewhere in between.
10-06-2010, 09:51 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Why does it bother you? Who cares if everyone else doesn't know about it. Is there some need to be on the "winning side"?
It's not a question of being on the 'winning' side, it's a question of Pentax continuing to sell enough cameras to remain viable.
10-06-2010, 09:59 PM   #75
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I recall the days when Pentax used to always have one of the inside cover page adverts for both Modern and Popular Photography magazines...the two largest circulation (I believe) photography mags in North America for many years.

That was back in the day of the Pentax Spotmatic and Pentax K1000...two cameras that always were at, or near the top of camera sales.

Do you suppose there is a link between regular, high profile, effective advertising and sales ?

Pentax makes good products....their lenses and cameras are always rated highly....but people...potential consumers need to know.

There's two ways to know about how good a product is...word of mouth and effective advertising. Word of mouth is kind of a 'Catch 22'.

In order for people to know about the merits of a product and pass it on through word of mouth, they first need to know about it...usually through advertising.

I've talked to many a salesperson at camera shops and they say the same thing...neophyte customers come into the store and say I want the Canikon....that's I saw advertised on TV.

When competitive Pentax or Olympus models are brought out...the customer invariably say...no...I want to buy the Canikon that I saw in the advert.
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