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10-15-2010, 12:37 AM   #16
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There are no conspiracy theories about the K-5 as far as I can tell.
Price wise, I was an early adopter for the K-7 and guess what... the K-5 is cheaper than what I paid then. I am grateful for my local Pentax agent for the terrific pre-order price. Now as the the price gap between the K-r and the K-5, I personally think the difference is justified.

The K-r packs in a lot of features and improvements but it still is an entry-level camera as far as build quality is concerned. The K-5 does everything the K-r can do but better and not just incrementally. Plus you have to figure the magnesium and stainless steel construction and weather sealing into it. With the two e-dials, shooting with the K-5 is a very much quicker and intuitive affair compared to the K-r or K-x.

Also I think it is not an equivalent comparison price wise between the K-x and the K-r because the former is probably already slated to be discontinued and is being heavily discounted to clear inventory. Where I am, the K-r's price is not far from the initial launch price of the K-x.

10-15-2010, 12:40 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chaitanya Quote
I had heard that Pentax was actually going the price the K-5 at around 1300USD at the final release, as the price of 1600USD was just tentative. But since they are selling at the price that they said during the initial launch would make K-5 a failure.
I think that US$1300 amount was bandied about by some wishful thinking Pentax users hoping for a cheap camera. With the weakness of the US$, that is a fantasy target price.
10-15-2010, 12:56 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chaitanya Quote
I had heard that Pentax was actually going the price the K-5 at around 1300USD at the final release, as the price of 1600USD was just tentative. But since they are selling at the price that they said during the initial launch would make K-5 a failure.
I don't know if it's going to be productive to get into the whole success-failure discussion. It's not really about that for me. It's that given the pre-release information was a morass of mixed messages about where the business is going and how we existing customers fit into the equation.

Part of me is also wondering is this is nothing more than Hoya trying an experiment to see how things shake out if the price is left on par with established bodies of other brands which are used by professionals as part of their gear kit? Will we existing user base just accept it and buy into the idea or will many simply move camps? I mean many of us have to admit the thought has at least crossed our minds now that the price of the K-5 has apparently been confirmed...I just don't like being "managed". I also think maybe I might be reading more into it than really exists and these early sales are nothing other than early adopter aberration as well as a bit of, say, Amazon nailing pre-order folks for the max price given the apparent lower number of bodies to which they have access. but really I don't see any advantage to Amazon or other retailer to do anything so opportunistic.

Still I feel the K-5 stock sold out waaaay to soon to have been a legitimate example of what people are willing to pay...basically I guess I am wondering if they really sold any bodies to being with. Has anyone here actually received a body yet?
So, I am back to coloring me confused.
10-15-2010, 12:59 AM   #19
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For me the weathersealings are worth more than dubble the price, because without them it would break in my hands in 2 days

Then there is the bonus of dual controll wheels, the level indicator, iso 80, etc etc

10-15-2010, 01:00 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
I think that US$1300 amount was bandied about by some wishful thinking Pentax users hoping for a cheap camera. With the weakness of the US$, that is a fantasy target price.
Actually as I recall the $1300 (or I actually believe it was $1399) number came from the fact the folks manning the Pentax booth at Photokina suggested/indicated that the RRP of 1599-Euros (sorry don't wanna look up the code for the symbol) included the 19% VAT which when accounted for drop the price to about the $1399 price, which seems more palatable to people in the US.
10-15-2010, 01:04 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by melander Quote
For me the weathersealings are worth more than dubble the price, because without them it would break in my hands in 2 days

Then there is the bonus of dual controll wheels, the level indicator, iso 80, etc etc
Not really after a blow-by-blow feature-by-feature rundown of the differences...we all are well aware of those. More I was after a discussion of what could be going on here and does it make sense.

I agree there are features in the K-5 which represent significant utility to everyone, but those vary by individual needs so therefore aren't completely germane to the discussion as discrete elements. It's the total package I'm looking at in terms of being worth, actually over 2x the price of the K-r for most users.

Ultimately, we likely won't know either way, but if you read, there is some confusion and at least some have wondered the same thing.
10-15-2010, 01:45 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by brecklundin Quote
And no, I don't think the D7000 is going to have the construction quality of the K-5, anyway I'm genetically predisposed to biologically reject anything Nikon, I've always been that way. So, Nikon is not and won't ever be an option for me...hehehehe.... Still if Nikon can do it, why can't Pentax at least get into the a closer section of the ballpark?
The K-5 is going to be the legendary Pentax people will be talking about for a long long time.

It will be the APS-C that will create FF class images.
It's going to be the envy of all the other camera owners including the D7000

So sit back and enjoy the show
10-15-2010, 02:37 AM - 1 Like   #23
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The OP touches a point but draws the wrong conclusion.

Kr vs. K5 is a nice example but not the only. Almost same sensor (15% pitch difference, both Exmor HD), same processor, almost same fps (6 vs. 7), almost same AF module.

But besides a number of other differences, the real difference is that the K-5 simply plays in another league. Just look at the camera from an analog film era point of view (all film camera shared the same sensor btw...). The K-5 is outstanding mechanically where the Kr is only good. K5 makes much more fun to shoot with. A league I always call the enthusiast class.

The problem is that this class is currently artificially made APSC (the technology would allow 35mm at this price point now). And the market starts to ask questions like the OP, "what's actually justifying the price premium?".

Therefore, the APSC enthusiast class premium has begun to erode (D7000) and I am sure the enthusiast class will soon cease to be APSC. That's why I wrote my recent blog article.


Currently, the price premium seems artificial indeed although it is due to the mechanics and possibly tighter tolerances. But that's true for the entire enthusiast APSC class.

10-15-2010, 03:10 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by brecklundin Quote
Not really after a blow-by-blow feature-by-feature rundown of the differences...we all are well aware of those. More I was after a discussion of what could be going on here and does it make sense.

I agree there are features in the K-5 which represent significant utility to everyone, but those vary by individual needs so therefore aren't completely germane to the discussion as discrete elements. It's the total package I'm looking at in terms of being worth, actually over 2x the price of the K-r for most users.

Ultimately, we likely won't know either way, but if you read, there is some confusion and at least some have wondered the same thing.
I dont realy understand where you are getting at, what makes a BMW more expencive than a Skoda? Why is there a price difference between D3 and D3s, same same but different sensor. Why does a house in central New York cost more than a house in the suburb.
If we dont take into account accesories in the car, output in picture preformance and location location location they should all cost the same.

Why does the k-5 cost twice? because of buid quality, Image quality and accesories.
10-15-2010, 04:10 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by brecklundin Quote
I only just now started to really look at the pricing structure of HoyaTax vs. the other companies as well as the Hoya in-house pricing but it just does not seem right or consistent.
...

Another example is the very fast sell-out of the K-5 on Amazon...why? Did they order like 10-bodies and refuse to order more simply because of the now dead stock K-7 bodies? Is Hoya planning to keep the K-7 in production to keep the K-5 price up?

Or, just as with the K-7 has some hardware related problem surfaced late in the production process so in order to slow sales has Hoya decided to inflate the price of the K-5 until whatever the issue could be is fixed?
I think you just about answered the question there, or you would have if you weren't looking for bad motives. Pentax manufactures two camera lines at once. There is "new old stock" of K-7 and K-x cameras, new in every sense except that they aren't being made anymore. The K-5 and K-r aren't being marketed as their replacements, as the K-7 Mark II and K-x Mark II, but rather as being distinct offerings; the current Pentax camera lineup is, low to high, the K-x, K-r, K-7, and K-5. This means that the K-7 will be higher priced than the K-r, and the K-5 higher than the K-7. The K-r and K-5 prices would need to be even higher if Pentax were to throw away existing K-7 and K-x stock. That's all.

Pricing for profitable goods is entirely artificial. It has everything to do with what the market is expected to bear. And, quite frankly, if Pentax can sell out of the K-5, then the price may well be too low, at least for now.
10-15-2010, 04:25 AM   #26
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I can only speak for myself personally. When I look at a newly released camera from Pentax, I know that I will not be able to afford it for about six months (roughly) and that's OK. My old cameras continue to function and truthfully, I could skip an upgrade without a problem. Every "upper end" Pentax in the last three years has released for more than 1000 dollars. As far as I can recall, the K20 sold in the beginning for 1300 and the K7 just a hair above that. It is not surprising to me then that Pentax decided to release the K5 at the price they did.

As far as railing on Hoya/Pentax as a whole, I look at the system. I know that I will not buy a non weather sealed system. This immediately rules out the kx and kr for me. The cost of switching to another brand's weather sealed body and lenses would be astronomical for me in comparison to waiting a little while and getting the K5 when I can afford it. Nikon's sealed lenses, in particular would add a huge cost to the relatively cheap cost of the D7000, while I already own the DA 16-50 and 50-135 for Pentax.

Finally, it is only money we are talking about. Focus on money and the things that it can buy just conjures up discontentment and apparently anger, if I read your opening post correctly.
10-15-2010, 05:05 AM   #27
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Good points being made, though I'm not convinced that the K-5 needs to be priced higher than the K-7 was at first release just because it's still being sold now.

I get the gist of the argument put forward but from a consumer's point of view, regardless of this concept, is the camera got to prove itself worth the higher price and does it compare favourably to the competition? These are real issues - even though it may be just money we're talking about, and enthusiasts don't have as much an issue with dropping a few hundred extra just to stick with Pentax as a keen newbie or non-Pentaxian enthusiast in the market for a new dSLR.
10-15-2010, 05:09 AM   #28
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We're two days into the multi-year price curve and some here are already announcing failure? I don't get that.

We've yet to see:

* thorough comparative reviews
* where the street price settles in a week or month or two and
* the competitors' moves on pricing/promotion.

The success (including profitability) of these products will depend on the long haul, not just the first week.

Let's just take a deep breath and relax about MSRP for a bit. I don't see Pentax allowing the warehouses to bulge with unsold products.

It will work out.
10-15-2010, 05:11 AM   #29
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Why peoples are paying double the price to buy a coffee at Starbuck?????
10-15-2010, 05:16 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
Pentax finally became full digital. And in digital world everything is 2. Nothing in between So, K-r is $800, K-5 is $1600. If they are going to produce model above K-5, then it is going to be $3200
I'd actually consider paying $3200 for a damn good Pentax FF body.
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