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10-18-2010, 05:08 AM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by brecklundin Quote
Then again having accurate information about a product when it is introduced at your industry's biggest event that is only held, what? Every two years? but the staff in your booth or the staff in all your markets has either no info or conflicting information....accurate information...now that is truly an outrageous concept. Or is that also an unrealistic expectation?

Gotta admit it was freaking hilarious that even the president of Pentax USA as muzzled and had essentially nothing he was allowed to say.

Funny thing is, we still don't have 100% accurate details around the globe...or do we? Nobody at HoyaTax will confirm or deny the status of anything.
That was my point. There is enough erroneous information floating around as it is. Posts making assertions about its capabilities or shortcomings made by people who have never even touched one doesn't help the situation.
I think we need two sticky threads:
"Actual hands-on K5 impressions and test results."
and
"I don't own, and have never even seen a K5, but I'm going to do critique of it anyway"


Last edited by Parallax; 10-18-2010 at 05:15 AM.
10-18-2010, 05:25 AM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
That was my point. There is enough erroneous information floating around as it is. Posts making assertions about its capabilities or shortcomings made by people who have never even touched one doesn't help the situation.
I think we need two sticky threads:
"Actual hands-on K5 impressions and test results."
and
"I don't own, and have never even seen a K5, but I'm going to do critique of it anyway"

On another thread, OGL , seem to be a believer now of the new sensor. He done is own test with raw file and confirm he can get ggod IQ still at 3200. Steelski run also test with PP at ISO25600 and photo are usable in small 4x6 photo
Look very good
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/118658-couple-k5-s...ml#post1226893

Here a very good link from JohnBee who took the photo.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/118728-k-5-dng-raw-iso-case-study-6400-51200-a.html



This is at ISO51200 PP . When reduce to a 4x6 , look good to print

Last edited by bobmaxja; 10-18-2010 at 05:33 AM.
10-18-2010, 07:51 AM - 1 Like   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Log average The mean on a logarithmic scale

mean = Exp (1/n Sum (ln (x_i))

This turns out to be the same as the geometric mean indeed. But it is easier to argue why with 3 models, the middle one should occupy the middle position on a logarithmic price scale.
Yes, but you said :

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
We should be lucky that we don't pay the logarithmic mean between K-r ($800) and 645D ($10k). As that would have been $2800
logarithmic mean, not arithmetic mean on a log-scale. Of arithmetic mean, logarithmic mean, and geometric/log-average, logarithmic mean is the middle position with $3600, unless there is a 3rd model based on log.
10-18-2010, 07:59 AM   #124
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Oh, Lord! Here we go again.

10-18-2010, 09:31 AM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Oh, Lord! Here we go again.
I have decided that any camera that requires the use of a scientific calculator to determine the price is too expensive for me at present.
10-18-2010, 10:29 AM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Oh, Lord! Here we go again.
Not my fault this time!
10-18-2010, 11:50 AM   #127
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Not mine, either!
10-18-2010, 11:59 AM   #128
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WT?

Geom...Logo.... I'm going back to the beginners forum...

10-18-2010, 02:03 PM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
So you don't think economy of scale enters into this?
Or do you even know what the term means?
I think Pentax would be fooling themselves if they thought that they will sell enough units at $1500 to recoup R&D costs as well as production costs. Listing at $1299 not only makes the purchase more attractive for potential higher volume sales, it also saves on costs per unit when manufacturing in bulk. You think the D7000 wont sell 10 to 1 against the K-5? Since you are throwing out year 2 Business Administration terms, try considering MP = ∂TP / ∂Q = Additional output / additional input.

But hey, if you like being a guinea pig, go for it.

Jason
10-18-2010, 02:13 PM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by robbiec Quote
Dunno about the US, seems reasonable in the EU zone...
Then again, $1599 = €1146, which about right. Hoya's beancounters must have had their crystal ball redone with an smc coating
Where are you buying one for USd in Ireland? Last I checked, in EU these are going for 1459 Euro.

source: http://www.amazon.de/Pentax-K-5-SLR-Digitalkamera-Megapixel-Geh%C3%A4use/dp/...d_sim_sbs_ph_1

Jason
10-18-2010, 02:19 PM   #131
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I've no education in matters of business or finance, at any level, but I'll propose this (again):

Pentax and its retailers will continue sales at the MSRP as long as there are at least as many buyers as there are cameras to sell. Maximizes profits in the near term.

Longer term is much more complicated and depends on buyers' willingness to defer a purchase until either 1.) the inevitable order backlog is filled or 2.) the inevitable price decline. Anyone who cannot wait will go elsewhere in any case.

I'm afraid I cannot contribute any Greek letters, though. A conspicuous gap in my education.
10-18-2010, 02:38 PM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
I've no education in matters of business or finance, at any level, but I'll propose this (again):

Pentax and its retailers will continue sales at the MSRP as long as there are at least as many buyers as there are cameras to sell. Maximizes profits in the near term.

Longer term is much more complicated and depends on buyers' willingness to defer a purchase until either 1.) the inevitable order backlog is filled or 2.) the inevitable price decline. Anyone who cannot wait will go elsewhere in any case.

I'm afraid I cannot contribute any Greek letters, though. A conspicuous gap in my education.
Oh, they'll sell plenty at full retail for the next month or two to those who cannot wait or machismo gets the best of them...and the price will drop as usual, just a shame it was higher than the competition and higher than anything else they have released other than the 645D. Perhaps news of the worldwide recession info hasn't made its way to the Hoya building. Even at full pop, they will sell far less than they would have at $1299.

Jason
10-18-2010, 03:10 PM - 1 Like   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eruditass Quote
logarithmic mean, not arithmetic mean on a log-scale.
Eruditass, thanks for final clarification.

I wasn't aware of the distinction being made between logarithmic mean and logarithmic average. My fault and I'm sorry. You're right and I stand corrected.

I think the level of expertise in this forum is very good

What I meant was logarithmic average indeed as I can see how one could argue to have a model at the middle price position in a plot with logarithmic price axis and three models.
10-18-2010, 04:31 PM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
I think Pentax would be fooling themselves if they thought that they will sell enough units at $1500 to recoup R&D costs as well as production costs. Listing at $1299 not only makes the purchase more attractive for potential higher volume sales, it also saves on costs per unit when manufacturing in bulk. You think the D7000 wont sell 10 to 1 against the K-5? Since you are throwing out year 2 Business Administration terms, try considering MP = ∂TP / ∂Q = Additional output / additional input.

But hey, if you like being a guinea pig, go for it.

Jason
One of the truisms that I learned during business economics was that if you drop your price 10%, you need something like 40% more sales to make the same amount of profit.
I don't know if this is precisely true, but I have found over the years that the cheap guys seem to suffer more from having no money than the expensive guys.
Now, you want Pentax to drop their retail price by ~15% (I'm not going to bother with the math, it's more than 10, less than 20), so you must think that they would sell 60% more units if they introduce it at 1299.00.
I think you are wrong.

Additional manufacturing doesn't do you much good when the product sits unsold on the shelf.

Does the gibberish mean something?

The D7000 will sell at least 10:1 (I expect more likely is will be 25 or more:1).
Perhaps you haven't heard, but Nikon has a huge market share compared to Pentax.

Now, you may think the bean counters at Hoya are fools, but I'm guessing they know pretty closely how many cameras they will sell, and how much they have to sell them for to make it worthwhile to bother.

I don't intend to be anyone's guinea pig, but I do intend to buy a K5 when one becomes available to me.
You can call it what you like, and continue to hobble along with whatever camera you are using, that's your choice.
We both know that in a few months, the price will drop on the K5, it may even drop enough for you to justify it.
10-18-2010, 09:46 PM   #135
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Kinda simple #1 with a bullet vs. #58 with an anchor:

Amazon.com Bestsellers: The most popular items in Digital SLR Cameras

Add to that all those tasty sales of new lenses & flashes to people who are warm and fuzzy from the great deal they got on the body. Yeah numbers are everything.

Hoya better get their collective heads out of their rear ends or wherever they have them stuck.

I will never go to Nikon but am perfectly happy to go BACK to Canon and a 7D which can be had (used and often news at the right time) for close to what the D7000 is going for at MSRP.
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