[Col]

Nicely put John, but still I was at a Rick Wakeman & Jon Anderson concert last night so I have to agree.

I'm glad there's a move away from the Most Bang/Buck only sales point, the something for nothing is not going to serve Pentax in the long run. I chose the K10D having seen fellow birders Canon's dying in the rain. I think if people may take notice of the complete K5 package with it at a "proper" (more British) price point.

BTW what is supposed to be so special about USA coffee, always seemed quite weak and insipid... even the Gas Station 5hr reheats.

[Jasvox]

This is another thread which illustrates the mistake Pentax made a couple of decades ago when they decided to be the supplier of cameras to people who are cheap.
By being the cheap guys, they never were able to keep at the leading edge of technology, so we had to tolerate second rate bodies, but we put up with that because they were, at least, cheap and the lenses were why we shot with Pentax anyway.
It was a decision that paved the way for some large company to buy them out or go bankrupt.
So now we have a current generation of users who are crying because Pentax is both behind the technology curve and is pricing cameras in such a way that they will recover the cost of production.
Do you really think that Pentax can price the K5 to compete with similar spec cameras that will sell several hundred times more units than the K5 will and make money doing it?
Do you really long for the old days when we could take 5 pictures a minute with a camera that was so slow in every respect as to be almost unusable?
Or would you prefer the short term view and have Pentax fire sale price their cameras and go out of business entirely?
If a couple of hundred dollar difference in price is that critical to you, go buy the cheaper camera from the other manufacturer. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to buy a K5.

Nothing was mentioned in my previous post about desiring to choose another brand or long for the old days. What I did say was I think the K-5 is $300 too much regardless of the fact the D7000 and the 60D are between $300 and $400 cheaper, for very comparable bodies. I hardly think releasing the K-5 at $1299 is a "fire sale". If you like the idea of paying $300 more than you would have for the K10D, the K20D and the K-7 when they were released, no ones holding that same hypothetical gun to your head either. As I mentioned in another thread a few days ago, Nothing released this year by any of the top brands is necessarily ground breaking or introducing technology no one has ever seen. Why are the costs of bodies going up when technology is not advancing at the same pace? If Microwave ovens or DVD players were priced according to the same theory, we'd all be paying $1500 for those too. I bought a 3.1 megapixel Sony Cybershot back in 2000 for $700...I dont see a P&S on the market these days for anywhere near that, and certainly not anywhere near the specs from 10 years ago, but for some reason tacking on a 20% increase for the K-5 over the K-7 is justified?

Jason

[Kini62]

If Microwave ovens or DVD players were priced according to the same theory, we'd all be paying $1500 for those too. , but for some reason tacking on a 20% increase for the K-5 over the K-7 is justified?

Jason

Well, if the microwave could cook 5 times faster, crisp, bake, and fry, then yes it would certainly cost more. Same with DVD players. Nothing has changed with those technologies in 20 years that's why the price has come down.

Why the 20% increase in price for the k-5 over the K-7? Probably a dollar/yen thing and a marketing decision. Could be Hoya is paying Sony more than Nikon for the sensor. Could a lot of things, but it is what it is.

Free market will ultimately determine where the price should be.

Gene

[Catalana]

ATM, the Yen versus the Dollar is at the highest rate in 15 years. I think that folks should consider this as well. I honestly believe, that if Hoya could keep the price down, they would.
But these are early days, so beware...the Dollar might drop even more!

[YJD]

Then why is the K-R and the D645 aren't affected by it?
It's a real question, I'm not trying to be funny.

I think the main problem is HOYA cannot give any logical explanation of why the K-5 is that more expensive. They either need to give one or lower down the price.

[Jasvox]

Well, if the microwave could cook 5 times faster, crisp, bake, and fry, then yes it would certainly cost more. Same with DVD players. Nothing has changed with those technologies in 20 years that's why the price has come down.

Gene

Yet, a very decent personal computer which does 100x more (perhaps I am grossly underestimating that number?) than the Pentium I paid $800 for in 1997 still costs $800. Another example is LCD/Plasma televisions. We have bigger, more resolution and more advanced now than 5-7 years ago and yet the price has dropped. Examples are too many to mention...I just wish DSLR body would come back down to earth, that's is all I am saying.

Jason

[Wheatfield]

Then why is the K-R and the D645 aren't affected by it?
It's a real question, I'm not trying to be funny.

I think the main problem is HOYA cannot give any logical explanation of why the K-5 is that more expensive. They either need to give one or lower down the price.

They don't need to do either. If you don't like the price, go buy something else.
It's pretty well documented that initial release price bears little resemblance to the street price in 6 months.
The K10 was an underpriced camera when it was released, I suspect the k20 was too, though I recall I paid around Can$1400.00 for my camera, and the K7 was, IIRC, around 1500 as well.
This is right where the K5 is, so I'm not seeing what is being complained about.
Pentax could sell these things for half that and they wouldn't sell any more of them, but they wouldn't be making any new cameras after that either.
OTOH, Nikon and Canon could put a wet turd in a box and sell it for whatever they want to get for it.
The K5 will, at best sell 1 camera for every 1000 D7000 bodies. Pentax has to charge more simply because they won't recoup their R&D investment otherwise.

People like to complain about the good old days when Pentax was cheap, but they forget that the reason they ended up being a rump company of Hoya is because they were cheap.
If they had been selling at a price that would have kept them profitable, they would still be an independent company (and people would still be complaining about the price).

[YJD]

I was just asking a question to try to understand.

What's the problem with you people? It's not because I disagree or don't understand the choice of HOYA that I will go buy something else! If I had the money I will go with a K-5 and not a D7000 or even worst a Canon.

On a business level, HOYA needs to match the need of the market and not their customers to match the offer of HOYA.

If HOYA needs more money to pay their R&D, which I do understand I used to work for R&D, then I do believe that they should have created a third DSLR between the K-R and the K-5 which won't have cost them that much, but would have been in a range that I can afford. I would have loved a K-R with a 2nd wheel, but that is just me.

If the prices stay that way (that is a IF), bring another DSLR.

This is what I said earlier in this thread:

I usually only read those kind of post, but today I will post what I think.

I do agree that the price is high for the K-5, though if after the review this camera is compare to a D300, then the price is fair. Like everyone else, cheaper it can be better it would be for me, but HOYA has its own cost to pay.

I think the problem may not lie in the price but in the market.
You have the K-r for entry level and the K-5 for advance level (645 for PRO), so $800 and $1800 ($10000). Are we missing a camera and price in the middle? I think we do. Something around $1100-1300.

If HOYA brought the K-5 to compete with the D300, they need to bring something to compete with the D7000 and 60D. The K-r cannot do it and the K-5 might be above that.

[Transit]

Nicely put John, but still I was at a Rick Wakeman & Jon Anderson concert last night ....

woooooo!!! you lucky thing

Pete
aging Yes freek

[jbinpg]

What? I thought Jon Anderson's doctor told him he could never sing again?

[robbiec]

K-r kit: Amazon.com: Pentax K-r 12.4 MP Digital SLR Camera with 3.0-Inch LCD and 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 Lens (White): Camera & Photo

K-5 kit: Amazon.com: Pentax K-5 16.3 MP Digital SLR with 18-55mm Lens and 3-Inch LCD (Black): Camera & Photo

K-5 body only (2x the K-r kit!!): Amazon.com: Pentax K-5 16.3 MP Digital SLR with 3-Inch LCD (Black Body Only): Camera & Photo


Ok, we all know the features and other bullcrap, lets forget that side of things...this is a rhetorical question and observation...one can pre-order a K-r kit for $800 or a K-5 "kit" for $1750ish...something smells here...like a the day after $2-Tuesday at a Nevada whorehouse.

I can't explain why I feel this way. I only just now started to really look at the pricing structure of HoyaTax vs. the other companies as well as the Hoya in-house pricing but it just does not seem right or consistent.

I have little doubt that the K-5 is going to be a wonderful camera. There is nothing to suggest otherwise. It is the prices...and NO IT'S NOT EXCHANGE RATES. See the exchange rate thing applies to ALL bodies not just the most expensive HoyaTax (nobody is saying the exchange rate is inflating the price of the 645D, right? I mean it's a more expensive body and if the value of the Yen vs. the USD was the issue then the new price for the 645D should now be $15,000 vs. the current $10,000 price.

I have no problem if the K-5 had features like dual processors, a-la the 7D, and other added features to make it bleeding edge.

So let's not push this into the realm of us vs. them brand wise but rather why would there be such inconsistent pricing...maybe my crap-detector is firing because from the first day of Photokina it felt as if Hoya was lying to consumers about the new body...via mis-information, lack of coordination of information and anything else one could call misdirection to focus attention away from something. What that something is, I obviously don't know...but I sense there is something.

Another example is the very fast sell-out of the K-5 on Amazon...why? Did they order like 10-bodies and refuse to order more simply because of the now dead stock K-7 bodies? Is Hoya planning to keep the K-7 in production to keep the K-5 price up?

Or, just as with the K-7 has some hardware related problem surfaced late in the production process so in order to slow sales has Hoya decided to inflate the price of the K-5 until whatever the issue could be is fixed?

I guess I am wondering if Hoya has again shot themselves in the foot with the release of their newest "higher end body" like with the sensor of the K-7 which had to be a KNOWN issue but the body was released anyway. If Pentax did not know about the K-7 sensor problem prior to the first production units leaving the warehouse then there are deeper issues than price structure at the company anyway.

Or? I dunno...and again, I am not being negative only asking the question WHY? Using exchange rates is not enough, especially considering the parts to build these things were bought months ago not yesterday.

And no, I don't think the D7000 is going to have the construction quality of the K-5, anyway I'm genetically predisposed to biologically reject anything Nikon, I've always been that way. So, Nikon is not and won't ever be an option for me...hehehehe.... Still if Nikon can do it, why can't Pentax at least get into the a closer section of the ballpark?

Cause its worth it!
In Hoya's mind the K-5 is not targeting the D7000, its after the D300s and early indications seem to show that it has landed a bullseye. The K-5 is meant to be paired with the Limiteds or DA*s and these have upped price in the last few years, makes sense to me that the K-5 matches those prices. Really to follow through properly they should have omitted the typical kit lenses (18-55 or 50-200) and bundled it with either a DA35 LTD or perhaps the new DA18-135 only. If you want a cheap camera get a K-X or K-R, if you want to have or aspire to get a top level APS-C camera then the K-5 is there for that. You pays your money and you makes your choice...

S!
Robbie

[Wheatfield]

Cause its worth it!
In Hoya's mind the K-5 is not targeting the 7000, its after the 300s and early indications seem to show that it has landed a bullseye. The K-5 is meant to be paired with the Limiteds or DA*s and these have upped price in the last few years, makes sense to me that the K-5 matches those prices. Really to follow through properly they should have omitted the typical kit lenses (18-55 or 50-200) and bundled it with either a DA35 or the new DA18-135 only. If you want a cheap camera get a K-X or K-R, if you want to have or aspire to get a top level APS-C camera then the K-5 is there for that. You pays your money and you makes your choice...

S!
Robbie

This seems to be the case. The early user reviews of the K5 seem to be that it is a better camera than the D7000. This being the case, certainly the higher price tag is justified.
Now one just has to decide if they can justify paying for a better camera than the competition is making.

[Jasvox]

This seems to be the case. The early user reviews of the K5 seem to be that it is a better camera than the D7000. This being the case, certainly the higher price tag is justified.
Now one just has to decide if they can justify paying for a better camera than the competition is making.

Until we have a little more than 5 days history between these two bodies, how can anyone make the claim one is any better than the other at this point? Even if so, how exactly is the K-5 $300 "better" than the D7000?

Jason

[rod_grant]

how exactly is the K-5 $300 "better" than the D7000?

The only reason to justify higher price is build quality and picture quality.
If these are present, the higher price can be justified.
But then your second question is unnecessary, at this time, because of your first question; "Until we have a little more than 5 days history between these two bodies, how can anyone make the claim one is any better than the other at this point? "

[Ash]

Interestingly, there's a lot of doubt concerning the K-5's worth from those who don't yet own one, but those who do at these early stages have been very impressed with the camera and can proudly say it's worth its current price tag.

The hands-on approach is usually best for these kinds of judgements.