K5 Buffer

Priyantha Bleeker · 10-20-2010, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by deadwolfbones

I'm trying to imagine a situation in which I'd be shooting in high-speed burst mode in dim lighting—failing to come up with anything.

Well I did shoot a couple of weeks ago in perfect daylight but without the sun shine, with my K20D with the Pentax-F 1,7x adapter plus my Pentax-M 200mm F4 attached and stopped down to F8(on the lens itself so it is 1,7x i think :P) at iso 3200 to get enough shutterspeed to give me steady pictures of the racing karts

So I do use my camera with high ISO for "high-speed burst" moments.

rawr · 10-20-2010, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by Priyantha Bleeker

So that means, that after de 8(or 9) frames you've shot in RAW you're stuck with a camera waiting ? And it is not continous shooting away on a lower FPS rate...
That's not the same behavior what the K20D has for example in my experience...

I think you will find that the K20D, K-5, 7D etc do the same thing. It's called by dpreview the 'buffer full rate' - ie the frame rate if the shutter release is held after burst (buffer full). As dpreview describe the fps hotrod Canon 7D for example, "Once the buffer is full the EOS 7D falls into a shooting 'rhythm' taking two shots in quick succession (almost normal frame rate) followed by a gap of approximately 0.45 sec."

They also mention for the K20D: Buffer full rate 0.8 fps Next burst 15.8 sec

Interestingly, in their review/discussion of the K20D's buffer performance, dpreview introduce another variable to consider in shooting at high fps:

"The K20D has corrected its predecessor's erratic continuous shooting rate, though shares the specified 3 frames per second. This rate is almost certainly dictated by the speed of the mirror return mechanism, rather than a lack of, or slowness of buffer memory."

Which makes sense. Add that to the mix.

Arpe · 10-20-2010, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by deadwolfbones

I'm trying to imagine a situation in which I'd be shooting in high-speed burst mode in dim lighting—failing to come up with anything.

Easy - a sport game at night. Those lights aren't that great, I shoot at ISO3200, and even have had to go to 6400.

**Rondec** · 10-20-2010, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by Arpe

Easy - a sport game at night. Those lights aren't that great, I shoot at ISO3200, and even have had to go to 6400.

I bet nearly all night game shots for Sports Illustrated and ESPN are shot at pretty high iso. Not important for everyone, but certainly could be useful for some.

rawr · 10-20-2010, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

I bet nearly all night game shots for Sports Illustrated and ESPN are shot at pretty high iso.

High ISO, yes. But I am pretty sure they wouldn't be shooting RAW...

kittykat46 · 10-20-2010, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by rawr

High ISO, yes. But I am pretty sure they wouldn't be shooting RAW...

Most photojournalists, with editors breathing down their necks to meet deadlines, will likely use JPEG out-of-camera.

But hobbyists and freelancers who want to get the best possible look from their photos may use RAW, so its all a matter of personal choice.

Eruditass · 10-20-2010, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by kittykat46

Most photojournalists, with editors breathing down their necks to meet deadlines, will likely use JPEG out-of-camera.

But hobbyists and freelancers who want to get the best possible look from their photos may use RAW, so its all a matter of personal choice.

Why do you say that?

You know essentially RAW = JPEG in terms of processing time with import presets. Filesize (and thus import time) is another matter, but still minimal difference.

kittykat46 · 10-20-2010, 11:00 PM

Originally posted by Eruditass

Why do you say that?

You know essentially RAW = JPEG in terms of processing time with import presets. Filesize (and thus import time) is another matter, but still minimal difference.

Well, I have a few journalist friends. One is an outright photo-journalist , the others are writers who also take photos for their stories. Theirs is a different photography world from mine.
I actually enjoy doing PP to bring out the best in a photo , up to a point.

Theirs is a world of rushed deadlines, photos which get uploaded just minutes before the editor starts getting upset...and yes, they shoot JPEG almost all the time.

simico · 10-21-2010, 06:53 AM

Originally posted by Eruditass

Why do you say that?

You know essentially RAW = JPEG in terms of processing time with import presets.

Assuming you have a pc at hand and have time to fiddle with it. Just one example from one of the largest press agencies: during Formula 1 races there are 3 persons shooting the first laps from the first turns. After a few laps the memory cards are collected from them by a 4th person and the photos are uploaded immediately to the HQ where the editors pick the best ones and publish them immediately. So around the 5th-6th lap the best action shots (usually there are some accidents / incidents at the first lap(s)) are already published. There's literally no time to fiddle with raw conversion, especially when resized out-of-camera jpeg does the job fine.

Jonson PL · 10-21-2010, 07:10 AM

I really hope we see a firmware update, for 12 bit possibility. I like to shoot RAW even in continues and then have more latitude to work with the files, WB, EV adjustment etc.

As a hobbyist I have don't have any deadline to meet, I can try and go for optimal IQ instead. Particularly since I often have to crop, or otherwise make changes.
If you up the Iso, there is really no need for 14 bit.
And with higher Iso, there is even more reason to shoot RAW. Dawn/dusk wildlife action would be one scenario

Originally posted by imtheguy

I get 27 full-size, highest quality, no processing, iso1600 jpg in a burst.

Sounds ok. Guess I gotta go JPEG instead

Originally posted by Vaikis_

what SD cards you use for measurments ? Please use Lexar® Professional 133x - it's very fast card

SanDisk SDHC cards are plenty fast

Originally posted by telfish

Just un-boxed my K-5 and the first thing I did was stand by the road and shoot cars coming towards me. I used my sigma 70-200 set at 2.8 and shot on afc at wide open.

The cars were traveling at 60 miles an hour approx and all shots were in focus as the af tracked the cars. Only ones OOF were when they came too close and were beyond the MFD of the lens.

Also did some panning shots of cars going behind trees and bushes. The tracking di pretty well and picked the cars up each side of objects. Not so many keepers as the head on shots but good enough.

I did try raw and JPG and I would I think use JPG for this sort of shooting. You can rattle off more shots than you will probably need I was shooting a 1/1000 and it seemed pretty fast to me. Far better than the K-7 and K-X.

Impressed with the camera on first look. Will have to play with the menu settings and dial my lenses in to get the best out of it but on first look I think it's a keeper.

Terry

Thanks for the info, good to hear.

macTak · 10-21-2010, 08:17 AM

What I'd like is for someone to test the continuous LOW setting for the K5; the specs on that were much more contradictory than the HI setting.

telfish · 10-21-2010, 08:28 AM

In Low mode I get 45 Jpegs till it slows, 10 Raws at low ISO and 5 at high ISO.

Hope that helps, I do not have the very fastest cards BTW.

secateurs · 10-21-2010, 03:01 PM

can someone with a nice fast card please try as well?

Also, I am really interested to know whether continuous shooting (i.e. fill the card) is possible at lower resolutions at either high or low mode. Thanks!

imtheguy · 10-21-2010, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by secateurs

can someone with a nice fast card please try as well?

Also, I am really interested to know whether continuous shooting (i.e. fill the card) is possible at lower resolutions at either high or low mode. Thanks!

The numbers I posted previously were with Sandisk 8GB Extreme III 30MB/s SDHC. Per your request I used the same card but lowered jpg quality to 3 stars and size to 6MB. Buffer full went from 27 shots at max size/IQ to 35 shots at the reduced size/IQ. I don't think the card has much to do with filling the buffer but it helps a lot when writing that full buffer to the card and returning to a ready state.

In low mode (1.x shots.sec) you can fill the card w/o stopping using a much slower card than my test card. If you had time to experiment, slowing the rate

TiminyCricket · 10-21-2010, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by deadwolfbones

I'm trying to imagine a situation in which I'd be shooting in high-speed burst mode in dim lighting—failing to come up with anything.

Simply being out at a restaurant bar with a large group of friends... something is almost always going on when you're with a group of 30+ people!

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10-20-2010, 08:32 AM	#76
Priyantha Bleeker Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 190	Originally posted by deadwolfbones I'm trying to imagine a situation in which I'd be shooting in high-speed burst mode in dim lighting—failing to come up with anything. Well I did shoot a couple of weeks ago in perfect daylight but without the sun shine, with my K20D with the Pentax-F 1,7x adapter plus my Pentax-M 200mm F4 attached and stopped down to F8(on the lens itself so it is 1,7x i think :P) at iso 3200 to get enough shutterspeed to give me steady pictures of the racing karts So I do use my camera with high ISO for "high-speed burst" moments.

10-20-2010, 11:16 AM	#77
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Priyantha Bleeker So that means, that after de 8(or 9) frames you've shot in RAW you're stuck with a camera waiting ? And it is not continous shooting away on a lower FPS rate... That's not the same behavior what the K20D has for example in my experience... I think you will find that the K20D, K-5, 7D etc do the same thing. It's called by dpreview the 'buffer full rate' - ie the frame rate if the shutter release is held after burst (buffer full). As dpreview describe the fps hotrod Canon 7D for example, "Once the buffer is full the EOS 7D falls into a shooting 'rhythm' taking two shots in quick succession (almost normal frame rate) followed by a gap of approximately 0.45 sec." They also mention for the K20D: Buffer full rate 0.8 fps Next burst 15.8 sec Interestingly, in their review/discussion of the K20D's buffer performance, dpreview introduce another variable to consider in shooting at high fps: "The K20D has corrected its predecessor's erratic continuous shooting rate, though shares the specified 3 frames per second. This rate is almost certainly dictated by the speed of the mirror return mechanism, rather than a lack of, or slowness of buffer memory." Which makes sense. Add that to the mix.

10-20-2010, 04:26 PM	#78
Arpe Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,452	Originally posted by deadwolfbones I'm trying to imagine a situation in which I'd be shooting in high-speed burst mode in dim lighting—failing to come up with anything. Easy - a sport game at night. Those lights aren't that great, I shoot at ISO3200, and even have had to go to 6400.

10-20-2010, 04:57 PM	#79
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by Arpe Easy - a sport game at night. Those lights aren't that great, I shoot at ISO3200, and even have had to go to 6400. I bet nearly all night game shots for Sports Illustrated and ESPN are shot at pretty high iso. Not important for everyone, but certainly could be useful for some.

10-20-2010, 09:11 PM	#80
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Rondec I bet nearly all night game shots for Sports Illustrated and ESPN are shot at pretty high iso. High ISO, yes. But I am pretty sure they wouldn't be shooting RAW...

10-20-2010, 09:22 PM	#81
kittykat46 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 923	Originally posted by rawr High ISO, yes. But I am pretty sure they wouldn't be shooting RAW... Most photojournalists, with editors breathing down their necks to meet deadlines, will likely use JPEG out-of-camera. But hobbyists and freelancers who want to get the best possible look from their photos may use RAW, so its all a matter of personal choice.

10-20-2010, 09:28 PM	#82
Eruditass Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,207	Originally posted by kittykat46 Most photojournalists, with editors breathing down their necks to meet deadlines, will likely use JPEG out-of-camera. But hobbyists and freelancers who want to get the best possible look from their photos may use RAW, so its all a matter of personal choice. Why do you say that? You know essentially RAW = JPEG in terms of processing time with import presets. Filesize (and thus import time) is another matter, but still minimal difference.

10-20-2010, 11:00 PM	#83
kittykat46 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 923	Originally posted by Eruditass Why do you say that? You know essentially RAW = JPEG in terms of processing time with import presets. Filesize (and thus import time) is another matter, but still minimal difference. Well, I have a few journalist friends. One is an outright photo-journalist , the others are writers who also take photos for their stories. Theirs is a different photography world from mine. I actually enjoy doing PP to bring out the best in a photo , up to a point. Theirs is a world of rushed deadlines, photos which get uploaded just minutes before the editor starts getting upset...and yes, they shoot JPEG almost all the time.

10-21-2010, 06:53 AM	#84
simico Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Budapest Posts: 821	Originally posted by Eruditass Why do you say that? You know essentially RAW = JPEG in terms of processing time with import presets. Assuming you have a pc at hand and have time to fiddle with it. Just one example from one of the largest press agencies: during Formula 1 races there are 3 persons shooting the first laps from the first turns. After a few laps the memory cards are collected from them by a 4th person and the photos are uploaded immediately to the HQ where the editors pick the best ones and publish them immediately. So around the 5th-6th lap the best action shots (usually there are some accidents / incidents at the first lap(s)) are already published. There's literally no time to fiddle with raw conversion, especially when resized out-of-camera jpeg does the job fine.

10-21-2010, 07:10 AM	#85
Jonson PL Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Copenhagen Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,842	I really hope we see a firmware update, for 12 bit possibility. I like to shoot RAW even in continues and then have more latitude to work with the files, WB, EV adjustment etc. As a hobbyist I have don't have any deadline to meet, I can try and go for optimal IQ instead. Particularly since I often have to crop, or otherwise make changes. If you up the Iso, there is really no need for 14 bit. And with higher Iso, there is even more reason to shoot RAW. Dawn/dusk wildlife action would be one scenario Originally posted by imtheguy I get 27 full-size, highest quality, no processing, iso1600 jpg in a burst. Sounds ok. Guess I gotta go JPEG instead Originally posted by Vaikis_ what SD cards you use for measurments ? Please use Lexar® Professional 133x - it's very fast card SanDisk SDHC cards are plenty fast Originally posted by telfish Just un-boxed my K-5 and the first thing I did was stand by the road and shoot cars coming towards me. I used my sigma 70-200 set at 2.8 and shot on afc at wide open. The cars were traveling at 60 miles an hour approx and all shots were in focus as the af tracked the cars. Only ones OOF were when they came too close and were beyond the MFD of the lens. Also did some panning shots of cars going behind trees and bushes. The tracking di pretty well and picked the cars up each side of objects. Not so many keepers as the head on shots but good enough. I did try raw and JPG and I would I think use JPG for this sort of shooting. You can rattle off more shots than you will probably need I was shooting a 1/1000 and it seemed pretty fast to me. Far better than the K-7 and K-X. Impressed with the camera on first look. Will have to play with the menu settings and dial my lenses in to get the best out of it but on first look I think it's a keeper. Terry Thanks for the info, good to hear.

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10-21-2010, 08:17 AM	#86
macTak Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 759	What I'd like is for someone to test the continuous LOW setting for the K5; the specs on that were much more contradictory than the HI setting.

10-21-2010, 08:28 AM	#87
telfish Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: NY Posts: 407	In Low mode I get 45 Jpegs till it slows, 10 Raws at low ISO and 5 at high ISO. Hope that helps, I do not have the very fastest cards BTW.

10-21-2010, 03:01 PM	#88
secateurs Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Adelaide, Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 250	can someone with a nice fast card please try as well? Also, I am really interested to know whether continuous shooting (i.e. fill the card) is possible at lower resolutions at either high or low mode. Thanks!

10-21-2010, 03:51 PM	#89
imtheguy Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,950	Originally posted by secateurs can someone with a nice fast card please try as well? Also, I am really interested to know whether continuous shooting (i.e. fill the card) is possible at lower resolutions at either high or low mode. Thanks! The numbers I posted previously were with Sandisk 8GB Extreme III 30MB/s SDHC. Per your request I used the same card but lowered jpg quality to 3 stars and size to 6MB. Buffer full went from 27 shots at max size/IQ to 35 shots at the reduced size/IQ. I don't think the card has much to do with filling the buffer but it helps a lot when writing that full buffer to the card and returning to a ready state. In low mode (1.x shots.sec) you can fill the card w/o stopping using a much slower card than my test card. If you had time to experiment, slowing the rate

10-21-2010, 03:57 PM	#90
TiminyCricket Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 76	Originally posted by deadwolfbones I'm trying to imagine a situation in which I'd be shooting in high-speed burst mode in dim lighting—failing to come up with anything. Simply being out at a restaurant bar with a large group of friends... something is almost always going on when you're with a group of 30+ people!