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10-20-2010, 11:51 PM   #31
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never seen anything like this o_O ubergut

10-21-2010, 01:16 AM   #32
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good perspective benisona, congrats for your work and i'll hope you'll get better soon.
btw, why do you need exp.bracketing? ps can do for you. it is succesfull if i didnt miss something.
10-21-2010, 05:13 AM   #33
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not really

QuoteOriginally posted by akanarya Quote
good perspective benisona, congrats for your work and i'll hope you'll get better soon.
btw, why do you need exp.bracketing? ps can do for you. it is succesfull if i didnt miss something.
you can fake up an hdr with one image photoshop by taking the image, making a copy (or copy as layer) and apply +1ev, another copy +2ev, another copy -1ev, yet another -2ev then have photoshop merge them into an hdr image, but the result will never be as good as a bracketed series, because you are still relying on the DR of one image. you can never get the details outside of the dynamic range of the single image, so your +ev images will just blow out, defeating the point of HDR while still adding that sometimes unpleasant HDR look. also, you will add a bunch of noise with the +ev copies. No, proper HDR requires multiple bracketed exposures, and hopefully your camera makes this easy to do (like the k20d). thats one of the things that makes me want to upgrade to the k5. they made exposure bracketing assignable to a hard button again (raw/fx) instead of having to go in menu like the k7
10-21-2010, 05:24 AM - 1 Like   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by akanarya Quote
good perspective benisona, congrats for your work and i'll hope you'll get better soon.
btw, why do you need exp.bracketing? ps can do for you. it is succesfull if i didnt miss something.
akanarya,
to get good HDR it is critical to capture the entire dynamic range of the scene. This s only possible with good exposure bracketing, and while this can be done manually in camera (takes a long time) it can also be done using AEB, which luckily for us pentax offers some of the best in the business (so glad there is a dedicated assignable button again, that would have killed me). exposure can be tweaked in photoshop, but no camera in the world has near enough dynamic range captured in one exposure to really allow very successful HDR in this way, unless the scene has very little DR to begin with, in which case HDR really isn't necessary. I think this is one reason why HDR gets such a bad rap, because it is miss understood, abused, when it should only be a tool to help create images similar to what the human brain creates. The brain integrates hundreds of exposures every few seconds into a high dynamic range image merged in the visual cortex. Because of this, the human eye can simultaneously perceive somewhere near 44 stops of exposure. The best camera sensor can only get near 13 in a single exposure. This is why, when used properly, HDR can actually approximate true human vision in a much more "realistic" way. People often criticize tonemapped images as "unrealistic" but IMHO this is only because the vast majority of HDR shooters impliment it poorly. If used well it can create images much closer to what humans percieve in high dynamic range scenes and is only really "surreal" because we are so accustomed to "traditional" single exposure photography.

here are some prime examples:

Lofty Vacancy | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Near the Shadow of Hope | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Reflecting Windows | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Math Machine | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

10-21-2010, 05:26 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by narichey81 Quote
you can fake up an hdr with one image photoshop by taking the image, making a copy (or copy as layer) and apply +1ev, another copy +2ev, another copy -1ev, yet another -2ev then have photoshop merge them into an hdr image, but the result will never be as good as a bracketed series, because you are still relying on the DR of one image. you can never get the details outside of the dynamic range of the single image, so your +ev images will just blow out, defeating the point of HDR while still adding that sometimes unpleasant HDR look. also, you will add a bunch of noise with the +ev copies. No, proper HDR requires multiple bracketed exposures, and hopefully your camera makes this easy to do (like the k20d). thats one of the things that makes me want to upgrade to the k5. they made exposure bracketing assignable to a hard button again (raw/fx) instead of having to go in menu like the k7
narichey
We are on the same page, must have even been typing simultaneously (great minds think alike)....
10-21-2010, 05:42 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by benisona Quote
Cousin Peter!!!!

You got it right .
10-21-2010, 06:39 AM   #37
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OMG!!!

QuoteOriginally posted by benisona Quote
...to get good HDR it is critical to capture the entire dynamic range of the scene....

If used well it can create images much closer to what humans percieve in high dynamic range scenes and is only really "surreal" because we are so accustomed to "traditional" single exposure photography.

here are some prime examples:

Lofty Vacancy | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Near the Shadow of Hope | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Reflecting Windows | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Math Machine | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Feels like a "Eureka" moment coming on... YIKES!!!

Thanks for sharing...

Cheers...
10-21-2010, 06:41 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by benisona Quote
akanarya,
to get good HDR it is critical to capture the entire dynamic range of the scene. This s only possible with good exposure bracketing, and while this can be done manually in camera (takes a long time) it can also be done using AEB, which luckily for us pentax offers some of the best in the business (so glad there is a dedicated assignable button again, that would have killed me). exposure can be tweaked in photoshop, but no camera in the world has near enough dynamic range captured in one exposure to really allow very successful HDR in this way, unless the scene has very little DR to begin with, in which case HDR really isn't necessary. I think this is one reason why HDR gets such a bad rap, because it is miss understood, abused, when it should only be a tool to help create images similar to what the human brain creates. The brain integrates hundreds of exposures every few seconds into a high dynamic range image merged in the visual cortex. Because of this, the human eye can simultaneously perceive somewhere near 44 stops of exposure. The best camera sensor can only get near 13 in a single exposure. This is why, when used properly, HDR can actually approximate true human vision in a much more "realistic" way. People often criticize tonemapped images as "unrealistic" but IMHO this is only because the vast majority of HDR shooters impliment it poorly. If used well it can create images much closer to what humans percieve in high dynamic range scenes and is only really "surreal" because we are so accustomed to "traditional" single exposure photography.

here are some prime examples:

Lofty Vacancy | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Near the Shadow of Hope | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Reflecting Windows | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Math Machine | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


Your HDR is simply wonderful! I am a big fan of HDR photography and I share a lot about your philosophy.
Can I ask you which software you use to get your HDR and the tonemapping?
Again congratulations!
Max


10-21-2010, 07:24 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by maxpiz Quote


Can I ask you which software you use to get your HDR and the tonemapping?
Again congratulations!
Max
From what he said, I think he uses layers and layer masks to do it manually in Photoshop (or the Gimp ).

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/119122-i-am-pro-sh...ml#post1230997
10-21-2010, 07:32 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by benisona Quote
Aleonx3,
multiple exposure is very different than exposure bracketing. Multiple exposure just superimposes multiple exposures into a single shot, and actually compensates for exposure. Most all cameras can do multiple exposure in camera. It can be really fun and cool when done right, here are some examples:

Double/Multiple Exposure Photography: Tips, Tutorials, and Examples | SOULTRAVELMULTIMEDIA


For HDR you don't use multiple exposures in that way, you use exposure bracketing, or AEB (auto exposure bracketing), which takes a series of shots with ev spacing, which you then later combine these shots in post process (can actually do it in camera on new pentax, but I would never do that because I love to layer in parts from original images and often tonemap multiple versions to also layer in the best parts of each) into 32 bits and then tonemap back to 8 bits..

nikons have AEB, but the software cripples them in that you can usually only do 3 shots with a max of 2 ev spacing. Flagship D3s can bracket 9 shots but only at 1 ev spacing! which really sucks because I've found that optimal ev spacing is 2. The pentax has alway had great bracketing features, and if you do a 5 shot 2 ev spaced bracket, then move exposure compensation down a bunch of stops shoot again, then move up a bunch of stops you can get 18+ stops of dynamic range very quickly and easily, and there are very few if any circumstances where you need more DR than that.

Hope that clears things up.
Thanks for your info. Looking forward to hearing how you like the K5.

How do you change the WB in a JPEG shot ?

For his cave photography, Andy also uses HDR :
Tutorials and Articles on Landscape Photography Technique - Andy McInroy Photography



QuoteOriginally posted by BrendanPK Quote
I Shoot for every publication that hires me (ok, mostly just the local guys) and depend on that for 95% of my income (odd jobs cover beer and fun $$) However that said:
Got a K5 Monday, threw it "into the fire" Tuesday and WOW
I have shoot with every mid-top level DSLR Pentax has made and even a lot of the top Nikons etc and the K5 is the best of all Pentax DSLR's for IQ and AF so far. Its easly on-par with the likes of the D300s (sorry haven't done enough with a Canon to compare.)
AF is much faster and locks on faster than any pentax DSLR I have
Flash is better too, but still not as good as Nikon IMHO.
ISO is AMAZING 1600 looks like 400!
Shot side by side with my K7 and past same outside body, its like a whole new camera!
Tomorrow I will be putting it threw the sports test shooting indoor high-school volleyball (no strobes allowed) so this along with Friday-night lights (High School Football) will be a true test of its low-light AF, AF-C speed/accuracy and High ISO.
Will report back soon
Thanks for your info !
10-21-2010, 08:12 AM - 1 Like   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
Thanks for your info. Looking forward to hearing how you like the K5.

How do you change the WB in a JPEG shot ?

For his cave photography, Andy also uses HDR :
Tutorials and Articles on Landscape Photography Technique - Andy McInroy Photography

Thanks for your info !
"This is easy.

You can change the White Balance (WB) of any image you can open in Photoshop. It doesn't matter if its raw, TIF or JPG, and it doesn't matter if it's from a digital camera or from film.

Every version of Photoshop can do this. Elements may have a very slightly different way to get to the adjustment. I'm talking about all versions of Photoshop including at least versions 4, 5, 6, 7, CS, CS2, CS3, CS4 and maybe before.

You also can do this in almost every other image editor, including free ones like iPhoto. See here for these cheap or free software options. I'll cover how to do this with Photoshop. The other programs are similar.

I use Photoshop all day. You're even better off if you use LIghtroom, because the adjustments in Lightroom are both easier, and look better. Lightroom makes the best changes to WB and exposure of any program I've used, just that I'm too lazy to open Lightroom if I need to fix anything.

I set my White Balance as I shoot, so I rarely have to do this.

I also have a page loaded with Photoshop hints and tricks including correcting color casts.



HOW - TO

In Photoshop on the Mac, just hit Command (the Apple key) B. The hard way is to go to IMAGE > ADJUSTMENTS > COLOR BALANCE.

You'll see a box with three sliders.

To change color temperature simply move the Cyan/Red slider one way and the Yellow/Blue slider an equal amount the other way. Just do it until it looks good.

To change Green/Magenta bias with fluorescent and metal-halide lighting simply move the Green/Magenta slider until it looks right.

EASY! Save your image as you please and you're done. Smarter users do this in an adjustment layer."

or even easier just go to IMAGE>ADJUSTMENTS>AUTO COLOR/AUTO TONE/AUTO CONTRAST

if you do all thee it usually works wonders in about 2 seconds, if not go ahead and do it manually...
10-21-2010, 08:16 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by benisona Quote
Love the fact that we are getting some pros together in this thread, lets keep everyone, including each other updated on things as we get and shoot with our new toys. It's possible that we could form a pentax pro union and get some shwag from pentax (might be a rather small union, and I do shoot cannon and nikon too, but I'm just saying...)
I'd say if nothing else, any time the words "pro" and "Pentax" can be used positively in the same sentence it is a good thing.
10-21-2010, 08:21 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by maxpiz Quote
Your HDR is Simply wonderful! I am a big fan of HDR photography and I share a lot about your philosophy.
Can I ask you Which software you use to get your HDR and the tonemapping?
Again congratulations!
Max

QuoteOriginally posted by rm2 Quote
From what he said, I think he uses layers and layer masks to do it manually in Photoshop (or the Gimp ).
Thanks for the kind words. I generally use PS for just about all my photo editing, but when I do HDR I use photomatix, HDR expose, and maybe nik HDR efex. I usually tonemap in multiple programs and then layer the parts I like, along with pieces of the original exposures that are good, back in in PS. Kinda time consuming but worth it. Here is a pretty good tutorial, which will give you a place to start and which goes over pretty much everything I discussed giving a good example scene to work from. Plus the stuck in customs guy is real nice.

HDR Tutorial | High Dynamic Range Tutorial
10-21-2010, 08:27 AM   #44
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Also, thanks for all the flickr love, you guys just pushed my total view count over 200,000!!!!!
10-21-2010, 08:50 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by benisona Quote
Thanks for the kind words. I generally use PS for just about all my photo editing, but when I do HDR I use photomatix, HDR expose, and maybe nik HDR efex. I usually tonemap in multiple programs and then layer the parts I like, along with pieces of the original exposures that are good, back in in PS. Kinda time consuming but worth it. Here is a pretty good tutorial, which will give you a place to start and which goes over pretty much everything I discussed giving a good example scene to work from. Plus the stuck in customs guy is real nice.

HDR Tutorial | High Dynamic Range Tutorial
Benisona,

Thanks a lot for coming here and sharing all this wealth of experience and knowledge. Really appreciated.
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