[jstevewhite]

I had forgotten all the details of this thread, but did a test today of the Metz 48 flash on the K5. I stood at one end of a 12' bathroom with complete darkness, focused at the opposite the wall using the focus assist light of the flash, and then shot.

I mistakenly had the K5 on 12,800iso to start with. The 0deg shot was fine but the 45deg shot was over exposed on a Tamy 28-75 lens at 28mm f8. Setting the K5 to 100iso, the K5 flash exposed properly at 0, 45, and 90 degrees with a DA21 and the Tamy 28-75 at 28mm. Focus was excellent by the way in all tests, even when i couldn't see the focus assist target very well with the DA-21 in place.

Yeah, I've been able to validate steady increase in overexposure as the ISO is increased above 800. It's easy to compensate for, and consistent, so it should be fixed, but it doesn't really bother me much. If I could stand to be without the camera for a few weeks, I'd send it in for service

[dylansalt]

I don't believe there is a system where this is the case. If you're looking for the best results, you just can't substitute expensive equipment for the attention and skill of the photographer. I've used Canon, Nikon, and Olympus TTL flash as well as Pentax's. In the film days, Oly was the best with a bullet, but even it could be fooled.

I did experience the problem under discussion (increasing exposure level with bounce flash as ISO increases). It doesn't particularly bother me for several reasons. First, I nearly always noodle the flash exposure compensation to get better exposure because environmental factors will significantly affect your flash exposure. For instance, shooting a single individual with a big, dark, open room behind 'em will overexpose the person (generally), whereas shooting that same person in white against a white wall will underexpose them with the same camera settings.

So i find the systematic overexposure to be a flaw, it's not a major problem as long as it's consistent (and with my rig - the K-5 and Metz - it is).

Would be interesting though to see a flash shootout between the current top aps-c dslr brands though and see which is more consistent and accurate.

Only then could we draw a conclusion if the K5 and it's flash exposure accuracy is lacking.

[filorp]

Would be interesting though to see a flash shootout between the current top aps-c dslr

its really enough to compare it to k10, k20, k100, Kr and my conclusion is: pTTL k5 is just broken... absolutely useless

[Ash]

I wouldn't rush into that conclusion quite yet filorp, but it does have its concerns.
I would have hoped that P-TTL continually improves with each flagship model, and I'm still hopeful Pentax take that mandate seriously enough to make it a goal they seek to achieve also.

[Naim Khan]

Hi all,
You will have noticed that I am the OP of this thread and thought I'll give an update.
For what it is worth, I rang Pentax UK/Europe on Friday. They say the people at Pentax Japan are still working on it and the matter is still alive. I did mention that Pentax should at least acknowledge that they are working on the problem - he, of course, didn't have anything to say back.
Regards.

[johnc]

My experience is that P-TTL control is lacking with my K5 in combination with AF360FGZ... most markedly in bounce, where a full discharge of the flash always seems to occur.

Same flash was OK on k10d. I don't really have time to totally bottom out the exact problem modes etc - I usually end up shooting in manual.

[Rupert]

Just before I logged in here I wrote this over in Flickr Pentaxians to a fellow member....

"As a side note, I was concerned about the flash results of the 540 and 360 on the K5......I haven't really tried many with the 360, but have done a good many in various conditions and angle settings with the 540 and find it more accurate than it was on the K20D or K10D.......not sure what to make of this, but I am not complaining. PTTL is actually usable, however I still prefer manual settings if the opportunity allows."

This must be a problem that is repairable , or else I have a defective K5 that delivers good results in any swivel position or any light. I will say that I am not a PTTL fan, I think I most always do better in manual mode, but it is tons better than on my K10 or 20D.

I do see a lot of variance in the K5, this is troubling, and hopefully the next major model will be more stable across the board. I read these things, and wonder if I am just dreaming, but results are results, and my results have been very pleasing.

Best Regards!

[Ash]

P-TTL is one of those features that is invaluable to some (including myself, particularly for weddings) and dispensible to others. Getting it right is significant to both Pentax and its userbase. But so too is AF, however there's a lot more noise about it because just about everyone who has a K-5 uses it.

Now, we should standby for further updates on the K-5, but as an end consumer I wouldn't be pleased to have to wait for the next model for these issues to be sorted out. QA and reliability are just as important as specificiation improvements IMO.

[dylansalt]

P-TTL is one of those features that is invaluable to some (including myself, particularly for weddings) and dispensible to others. Getting it right is significant to both Pentax and its userbase. But so too is AF, however there's a lot more noise about it because just about everyone who has a K-5 uses it.

Now, we should standby for further updates on the K-5, but as an end consumer I wouldn't be pleased to have to wait for the next model for these issues to be sorted out. QA and reliability are just as important as specificiation improvements IMO.

On that note, I wonder how many potential Pentax sales have been lost and how many have switched to other brands?

It doesn't seem to worry Pentax dslr martketing or it's R&D dept - weird?

[Ash]

We can't really speculate how the R&D department respond to alleged defectors to other brands for P-TTL inadequacies. But as for me, I'm not about to throw in the towel on the K-5. It's proven to me to be very much a high performance tool in just about every application.

[philbaum]

We can't really speculate how the R&D department respond to alleged defectors to other brands for P-TTL inadequacies. But as for me, I'm not about to throw in the towel on the K-5. It's proven to me to be very much a high performance tool in just about every application.

Ditto for me. I wanted a high iso machine with a quiet shutter and got it. AF problems, not seeing it. Flash problems, I'm not seeing anything that would cause me problems for my limited usage. A previous poster said he isn't seeing overexposure from pttl except above 800iso. Good enough for me.

Would i like to see Pentax spend more effort on their flash system - Yes. Would I like to see Pentax communicate better with their customer base - absolutely, listening and replying!

[dtsui]

I don't have a K5 but my K7 with AF540 behaves in very similar manner to what people described here with their K5 and that is overexposure in bounce flash particularly at wide angle shots and close distance. I noticed one thing that no one else seemed to have mentioned before, that the exposure is dependent on the zoom angle on the flash unit. If I manually changed the zoom angle on the flash I could vary the exposure from overexposure at the wider angles 16,19 to underexposure with 48,58, etc. all on the same scene, at the same lens angle and the same f/stop. This should not have happened with PTTL at all. I tested this with my K10D and it certainly did not behave in this manner.

I also experienced massive overexposure with the K7, >2 stops, with wireless off-camera PTTL flash which corresponds with the experience of some K5 users.

In mid-Feb, I managed to persuade the Pentax agent in Australia (CR Kennedy) to send the camera and flash back to the factory in Japan to get them examined. It was to my utmost disappointment that after 3 months of delay, the factory handed down the verdict: there is nothing wrong either with the camera or the flash!!!

What more or else could I do? I can sympathise with those K5 owners who are in a similar situation. To me it looks like a issue that can be easily rectified by a firmware upgrade. Yet after months this problem went public Pentax has yet to come up with a solution or even denied the problem exists. I am deeply disappointed by their attitude to say the least.

[Ash]

Haven't heard that one before David, but that's definitely my concern with wanting to send back a reasonably well-functioning K-5 overseas for investigating this apparent bounce flash overexposure. I'm yet to try and work out how to get around it and with which lenses it does it with, but I'm definitely keen to save the trouble of waiting months without a K-5 for little gain.

[dtsui]

I was told by CR Kennedy that no other person has sent in a camera with a similar problem before. I cannot imagine I am the only one on the planet that has this problem. I think a significant number of users just work around the issue, using either manual control or Auto A or just accept this is the way it is or they just do not shoot flash at all. This lets Pentax gets off the hook too easily. Had the same problem happened in either Canon or Nikon camp, their users may be filing law suits already.

[Ash]

David, I'd encourage you and everyone else who has a similar issue to make the suggestion to Pentax directly using the PentaxImaging Support website. The more they hear about the problem, the more they will take it seriously.