Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
10-30-2010, 12:42 AM   #16
Col
Veteran Member
Col's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Stansted Essex
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 615
All part of of the camera being released with a firmware that is really v0.6?

10-30-2010, 12:50 AM   #17
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,600
johnbee could you pls post (small - eg 200x200px per camera/ISO) 100% crops of the noise patterns for each body - ie just like you've done above, except enlarging and showing just the noise patterns.

I'd be interested to see up real close the 'texture' of the noise each camera produces. Aside from all the extra luminance(?) noise you see in the D7000, I get the feeling the K-5 noise is finer-grained and less 'chunky' than the D7000 too.

The noise character of the K-5 seems to me to suggest that it would deliver quite acceptable prints even at very high ISO.
10-30-2010, 12:53 AM   #18
Pentaxian
JohnBee's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: front of computer
Posts: 4,496
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
johnbee could you pls post (small - eg 200x200px per camera/ISO) 100% crops of the noise patterns for each body - ie just like you've done above, except enlarging and showing just the noise patterns.
I've been trying to find a good way to present pixel/grain quality also. But I can't think of a method that would preserve the intergrity of the grain in the process(enlargement). Even the best image interpolation will muddle the grain.

Any ideas?
10-30-2010, 12:56 AM   #19
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,600
QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
I've been trying to find a good way to present pixel/grain quality also.
Aha. When you figure out a way to best present it, it would be useful to see. Thanks!

10-30-2010, 01:38 AM   #20
Pentaxian
JohnBee's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: front of computer
Posts: 4,496
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Aha. When you figure out a way to best present it, it would be useful to see. Thanks!
Hi,

I managed to screen grab some 400% samples.
Let me know if you think that will work or if you think we can improve them by moving in a little further.

10-30-2010, 01:53 AM   #21
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bhavnagar (Gujarat),India
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 338
Fantastic results- Thanks!!!

I would say if RAW NR is giving clean results what is bad if Pentax apply it in RAW?

John I have a request take real life shots RAW both from K-5 and D7000 (which doesnt do RAW NR-that we are assuming) and let those file float on these forum and lets see. Then do your master NR on RAW image of K-5 and D7000 both and let others try it on those RAW. The challenge would be to make D7000 image as clean as K-5 RAW and processed RAW by whatever means of RAW processing D7000 advocates know.

I feel that D7000 noise is not going to be as easy as K-5 while doing NR operation. Pentax is doing some magic there. If they are doing RAW NR, I want to congratulate them for these results.

Atindra
10-30-2010, 02:25 AM   #22
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,600
QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
I managed to screen grab some 400% samples.
Let me know if you think that will work
Thanks for that. I feel so dirty pixel-peeping at this level

But it is interesting to see that in the K-5 there is still a lot of 'pattern' and variation left in the grain. Not much pixel blending, 'blockiness' or smudging at all, which is what one would normally see in NR smoothing close-up, and which you can see some evidence of in the D700 (D7000?) sample, particularly some horizontal 'blockiness' of some pixel groups across the image sample.

Whatever Pentax are doing on-chip is delivering very refined results.
10-30-2010, 06:58 AM   #23
Senior Member




Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oaxaca, Mexico; Shohola PA, USA
Posts: 219
Good test suggestion

QuoteOriginally posted by Atindra Quote
...
John I have a request take real life shots RAW both from K-5 and D7000 (which doesnt do RAW NR-that we are assuming) and let those file float on these forum and lets see. Then do your master NR on RAW image of K-5 and D7000 both and let others try it on those RAW. The challenge would be to make D7000 image as clean as K-5 RAW and processed RAW by whatever means of RAW processing D7000 advocates know.
That's the test I'd like to see. Some say that the K-5's raw NR can be replicated with software on the computer. This test would find out if that's true.
QuoteOriginally posted by Atindra Quote
I feel that D7000 noise is not going to be as easy as K-5 while doing NR operation...

Atindra
It seems like that might be the case. The test you suggest would show how much effort it takes on the computer to get the best result from each camera.

10-30-2010, 07:39 AM   #24
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2010
Photos: Albums
Posts: 337
10-30-2010, 07:50 AM   #25
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 923
On board NR vs. PC software NR

QuoteOriginally posted by Jeff Charles Quote
That's the test I'd like to see. Some say that the K-5's raw NR can be replicated with software on the computer. This test would find out if that's true.

It seems like that might be the case. The test you suggest would show how much effort it takes on the computer to get the best result from each camera.
There are different ways of thinking about this.

Many of the special purpose PC-based NR software have been written by people who have put in a lot of thought into the science and mathematics of noise reduction. Some of the algorithms are pretty closely kept secrets. Combine that with the sheer processing power of modern PCs, the longer available time for Post Processing, and the skill of the User, you can definitely get good results.

On the other hand, the camera manufacturers know the noise characteristics of their sensor best, and can tailor-make the on-board NR processing to bring out the best in the signal.

I'm no purist on the subject of RAW noise processing - the only caveat is it should not be at the expense of losing significant detail. So far the K-5 High ISO output looks pretty good in that respect.
10-30-2010, 08:28 AM   #26
Col
Veteran Member
Col's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Stansted Essex
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 615
QuoteOriginally posted by kittykat46 Quote
There are different ways of thinking about this.

cut

I'm no purist on the subject of RAW noise processing - the only caveat is it should not be at the expense of losing significant detail. So far the K-5 High ISO output looks pretty good in that respect.
No you're a purist (as to final image quality)? I too don't care how the best image / file quality is achieved if it means it throws DxO then good for Pentax. When DxO produce a FA31mm Ltd I'll let them steer my decision.
10-30-2010, 11:01 AM   #27
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,600
QuoteOriginally posted by Rite Quote
Nikon D7000: Camera Road Test With Chase Jarvis
Ugh. 'I said to Neyecon give me some cash, some creative freedom and I'll make a short film for you. They agreed so I rounded up a pile of friends and we headed out with no particular goal other than to make some art'

The Chase Jarvis promo for the D90 was one of the reasons stuck with Pentax and bought my K-x last year. This one is likely to make me buy a K-5.

I can't identify with those vapid Neyecon brats at all.
10-30-2010, 12:53 PM   #28
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2010
Photos: Albums
Posts: 337
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Ugh. 'I said to Neyecon give me some cash, some creative freedom and I'll make a short film for you. They agreed so I rounded up a pile of friends and we headed out with no particular goal other than to make some art'

The Chase Jarvis promo for the D90 was one of the reasons stuck with Pentax and bought my K-x last year. This one is likely to make me buy a K-5.

I can't identify with those vapid Neyecon brats at all.
================================

GMTA

I'm still happy with my K-x and K10D. The market Nikon targeted with that D7000 demo are college kids. If I were a college kid with an extra $1300 burning a hole in my pocket and seeing that demo, I would probably bite.

But .. I'm not, and I won't.

Getting the K5 in 2011, after reality sinks in with Pentax and the K7 stock clears out.
10-30-2010, 01:28 PM   #29
Veteran Member
Eruditass's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,206
Makes me want to become a better photographer and spend money on classes or follow pros around.
10-30-2010, 02:07 PM   #30
Senior Member




Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Innsbruck
Posts: 283
I am sure they can be very proud with their "own" (rofl lol) sensor. It is a bit embarassing to see that they insisted that this is NOT the same sensor and even if so it would have been improved bei Nikon, well, engineering vs. P's Mojo 0:1 i think

Last edited by Mehlsack; 10-30-2010 at 02:18 PM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, dslr, k-5, k-5 ii, k-5 iis, k5, pentax k-5
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ISO3200 JPEG from 16MP Sony Sensor (from Nikon D7000) kevinschoenmakers Pentax News and Rumors 96 10-31-2010 06:58 AM
K-7 vs. K-x IQ and noise test. gary1952 Pentax DSLR Discussion 17 08-01-2010 06:36 PM
k20d High ISO test shots 200-6400 PentaxPoke Pentax DSLR Discussion 44 04-27-2009 08:02 PM
Interesting DR Test and BG Noise Test of the K20D RiceHigh Pentax DSLR Discussion 14 06-25-2008 09:49 AM
Some K20D Vs K10D ISO noise tests (100 to 6400) RiceHigh Pentax DSLR Discussion 15 02-25-2008 04:00 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:14 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top