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11-03-2010, 08:17 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by D4rknezz Quote
Welcome

Prior to K5 release, i was toying with the idea of getting a 5D, so i am very interested in direct comparison between both cameras. Your comment regarding low light performance is interesting, I almost thought we'd have an APS-C that can pull of a FF performance. Do you mind posting a couple unprocessed RAW from both cameras at the ISO level where you feel K5 start losing out just to see the noise difference?
And congrats on your new camera by the way
I did a quick test with a shot taken at ISO 12800 on the K-5, shot as a RAW file, and imported into Photoshop CS5 via Adobe Camera Raw. The shot was take at f/2.8, very near to the MFD, so most of the image is blurred, except for the focus point (which is where I cropped to show the noise in the image).

The first image is the entire shot, and the second image is a 100% crop from the first image. For ISO 12800, I think the results are pretty good and I would have no hesitation using an image with this level of noise. One of the reasons why the noise isn't a big problem is the nature of that noise - it's "luminance" noise, not "chroma." To review, in very basic terms, the difference between luminance and chroma noise is that the former is differences in brightness between in pixels, whereas the latter is a difference in color response between pixels. Luminance is a more fundamental type of noise, resembling a grainy film and looking more natural. Chroma noise, on the other hand, results in an image that looks blotchy with pixels whose colors run together. Luminance noise is easier to remove in post-processing than chroma, and doesn't degrade image quality like chroma noise does.

The third image is with a little noise reduction applied via the Noiseware plug-in, and the fourth image is a 100% crop from the third image. You can see that some of the detail is lost after the image is processed through Noiseware, but it's still plenty usable. And of course, it's tough to compare via a computer monitor, but this shot with or without the noise reduction, would like fine when printed. In a situation where I needed it, I wouldn't hesitate to use ISO 12800 on the K-5.

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11-03-2010, 09:04 AM   #32
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Nice to see that one can still see fine detail in the handcontroll
11-03-2010, 11:13 AM   #33
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Thanks for elaborating more on the subject feudal1! I can't wait for december to come fast enough now to get myself one
11-03-2010, 11:22 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Feudal1 Quote
I did a quick test with a shot taken at ISO 12800 on the K-5, shot as a RAW file, and imported into Photoshop CS5 via Adobe Camera Raw. The shot was take at f/2.8, very near to the MFD, so most of the image is blurred, except for the focus point (which is where I cropped to show the noise in the image).
...
Thanks for the shots. How does this tendency to generate easily removable luma noise compare to your 5DII? Would you say that the noise and IQ is the same as that of 5DII@12800?

11-03-2010, 11:26 AM   #35
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Only owned my K-5 since monday evening but I had the oportunity to take it for a first walk in the woods yesterday. Here are some photos that I took. Need some more time with the camera before I can say anything detailed about it. Although moving from a K200D I can say that the K-5 is awsome







If you click on the flickr link below you can see the full resolution version the images and more also. Just click on the picture you want to see and then go to ->action-> view all sizes if you want a full resolution of those ones.

Pentax K-5 - a set on Flickr
11-03-2010, 11:42 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Downfall Quote
Only owned my K-5 since monday evening but I had the oportunity to take it for a first walk in the woods yesterday. Here are some photos that I took.

Pentax K-5 - a set on Flickr
=============================

Thanks for posting those.

18~55 Kit lens?
11-03-2010, 12:30 PM   #37
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Feudal1, can you please make a few shots in low light with the 5D mk2 and K-5, side by side ? Iso 3200,6400 and possible higher, in crops ?

Would be a great opportunity since you have both cameras, to see how the K-5 compares to a full frame camera regarding noise.

Thanks
11-03-2010, 12:32 PM   #38
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I think Downfall is rolling with the DA 40

11-03-2010, 01:02 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Downfall Quote
Only owned my K-5 since monday evening but I had the oportunity to take it for a first walk in the woods yesterday. Here are some photos that I took. Need some more time with the camera before I can say anything detailed about it. Although moving from a K200D I can say that the K-5 is awsome
Nice set of shots!! Looking forward to seeing more from you and other K-5 owners.
11-03-2010, 01:12 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Feudal1 Quote
I did a quick test with a shot taken at ISO 12800 on the K-5, shot as a RAW file, and imported into Photoshop CS5 via Adobe Camera Raw. The shot was take at f/2.8, very near to the MFD, so most of the image is blurred, except for the focus point (which is where I cropped to show the noise in the image).

The first image is the entire shot, and the second image is a 100% crop from the first image. For ISO 12800, I think the results are pretty good and I would have no hesitation using an image with this level of noise. One of the reasons why the noise isn't a big problem is the nature of that noise - it's "luminance" noise, not "chroma." To review, in very basic terms, the difference between luminance and chroma noise is that the former is differences in brightness between in pixels, whereas the latter is a difference in color response between pixels. Luminance is a more fundamental type of noise, resembling a grainy film and looking more natural. Chroma noise, on the other hand, results in an image that looks blotchy with pixels whose colors run together. Luminance noise is easier to remove in post-processing than chroma, and doesn't degrade image quality like chroma noise does.

The third image is with a little noise reduction applied via the Noiseware plug-in, and the fourth image is a 100% crop from the third image. You can see that some of the detail is lost after the image is processed through Noiseware, but it's still plenty usable. And of course, it's tough to compare via a computer monitor, but this shot with or without the noise reduction, would like fine when printed. In a situation where I needed it, I wouldn't hesitate to use ISO 12800 on the K-5.
Nice work, Chris!

With all of those threads on noise, chroma and luminance, at least here I can see in very simple terms what they are about, thanks for that!
(No pun intended to the scientific gurus here )

I also use NoisewarePro, unlike many other people using Topaz Denoise (I am told, and maybe convinced that the latter may be the better choice?).
Did you use any specifically "tailored for the K5" settings in terms of luminance and chroma adjustments?

Nonetheless, all of your sample shots have turned out really nicely and I am again impressed with the K5 ability to handle high ISO.
Mind you, you have used some quite great glass with those two DA*'s. I am sure this would help the cause!
I can't hardly wait to fit my Carl-Zeiss 85/1.4 on a K5!

If you believe that a ISO12800 image can be printed with/without NR and would turned out fine, what print size did you have in mind?

Again, thanks for sharing.

JP
11-03-2010, 01:20 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by raz Quote
Feudal1, can you please make a few shots in low light with the 5D mk2 and K-5, side by side ? Iso 3200,6400 and possible higher, in crops ?

Would be a great opportunity since you have both cameras, to see how the K-5 compares to a full frame camera regarding noise.

Thanks
Good question. However, I don't have any side-by-side shots, and honestly, setting up and doing a comparison like that isn't really something that interests me. Perhaps there are other K-5 owners here that can do that?

What I can do is show you a 5D Mark II shot from a concert our friend's band played a few weeks ago, shot at ISO 6400. As you can see from the 100% crop, the noise characteristics are quite similar to those of the K-5: more luminance noise, not much chroma noise. One thing to keep in mind looking at this 5D Mark II shot: it was taken with the 135mm f/2, one of Canon's best prime lenses, so the comparison may be unfairly stacked in the favor of the 5D Mark II. Also keep in mind this is an ISO 6400 shot taken with the 5D Mark II - the test shot I posted earlier with the K-5 was taken at ISO 12800!!

I have a couple of Pentax prime lenses arriving tomorrow to fill out my kit, so I should be able to take some more comparable shots with those (especially as I plan on getting out to do some night shooting on Friday). Also, the band is playing at another night club this weekend, so I'm hoping to get out there and really put the K-5 through its paces. Depending on the lighting at the club, I may be able to get similar shots with the K-5 to compare.
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11-03-2010, 01:23 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Feudal1 Quote
Good question. However, I don't have any side-by-side shots, and honestly, setting up and doing a comparison like that isn't really something that interests me. Perhaps there are other K-5 owners here that can do that?
Thanks for the pic ! Well, I think you are one of a very few (so far) who has both a full frame canon and a pentax so we will have to wait for the dpreview or imagingresources comparation
11-03-2010, 01:27 PM - 3 Likes   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by raz Quote
Thanks for the pic ! Well, I think you are one of a very few (so far) who has both a full frame canon and a pentax so we will have to wait for the dpreview or imageresources comparation
No worries Raz.

I think the K-5 is extremely impressive for an APS format camera. I shot a Canon 7D for a weekend shortly after it came out, and was pretty disappointed with the camera in general. The K-5 is a real nice surprise.
11-03-2010, 03:57 PM   #44
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Hi and welcome to the forum. It is great to see that you are enjoying the K-5 and Pentax lenses and that there are users out there that prefer the K-5 over the Canon 7D. Good news for Pentax.

QuoteOriginally posted by Feudal1 Quote
However, I don't have any side-by-side shots, and honestly, setting up and doing a comparison like that isn't really something that interests me.
That's fine but on the other hand then you cannot really comment on the low light abilities of the cameras. The fact that the 5D is an FF camera doesn't make it better suited for low light. It gives it a headstart regarding dynamic range and you'll have faster (after crop factor conversion of the f-stops) lenses available for it, but FF sensors do not intrinsically have a lower noise floor. I'd be surprised to see a significant difference between the 5D and the K-5. We'll know for sure when DxO has measured the K-5.

BTW, regarding the comparison of shots between cameras at various ISO levels not that manufacturers lie in various degrees regarding true ISO values. For instance, ISO 6400 for a Canon 5D Mk II really means ISO 3390 and ISO 6400 for a Pentax K-7 really means ISO 5797. That's over 2/3 of a stop difference of noise advantage the Canon obtains by cheating on the ISO value. One should bear this in mind when comparing shots.
11-03-2010, 04:09 PM   #45
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Feudal1, Добре дошъл и благодаря за интересните коментари и кадри!
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