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11-06-2010, 07:50 AM   #241
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
finally after 4 years, they were able to outdo what Fuji did in the APS-C size sensor department.
The S5's amazing Dynamic Range at low ISOs between ISO 100 and 800 was done via special control and readout processing of its sensors. The price of that was underperforming IQ at High ISOs

The Fuji S5 was a special camera really excellent for some types of photography, quite average in other situations.

11-06-2010, 08:25 AM   #242
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I wonder..

QuoteOriginally posted by Clarkey Quote
So, should I sell my MF gear yet? (Seriously?).
what to do with my K10D and K7 now.
11-06-2010, 08:57 AM   #243
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raylon Quote
"Well to be honest ...To me personally it just seems like a dead end. I can only go so far with Pentax equipment. I am by no means saying it is bad stuff, it's quite good, but it's not what I am looking for. Maybe if they increase their lens lineup I will give them a second look. I will definitely be keeping an eye on them with the advent of the K-5."
I'm not sure why you aren't spending time on a Canon forum rather than here
11-06-2010, 09:02 AM   #244
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raylon Quote
...Not true at all. I love my K200D. And obviously the K-5 is amazing. But just because I am critical of Pentax apparently makes me hate everything they do.
Sounds like the old OGL.

11-06-2010, 09:04 AM   #245
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raylon Quote
To those saying that the K-5 breaks into FF ground: I don't think so. I think this is simply where APS-C's are headed. K-5's sensor is a next gen sensor. Well guess what, as soon as the next gen FF sensors come out, they will most likely make the K-5 sensor look like a toy again. Stop making the stupid APS-C to FF comparison. Just accept the fact they are totally different sensors for different uses...
I have been making this point for some time. The next generation FF sensors will trounce the K-5. But one must still ask: How much is really necessary to satisfy one's own shooting needs? Increasingly, it is looking as though APS-C is good enough for the vast majority of photographic situations, even if FF is superior. That is why I think that we are going to witness a migration from FF to APS-C, though it won't be universal. There will always be IQ fanatics and people who want to shoot in near total darkness for whom nothing less than FF will do.

Rob
11-06-2010, 09:40 AM   #246
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
I have been making this point for some time. The next generation FF sensors will trounce the K-5. But one must still ask: How much is really necessary to satisfy one's own shooting needs? Increasingly, it is looking as though APS-C is good enough for the vast majority of photographic situations, even if FF is superior. That is why I think that we are going to witness a migration from FF to APS-C, though it won't be universal. There will always be IQ fanatics and people who want to shoot in near total darkness for whom nothing less than FF will do.

Rob
I agree completely. And, to add more food for thought, systems like micro four-thirds will be enjoying the same sensor and software technology improvements as FF and APS-C. Already, some MFT cameras are quite competent at ISO's as high as 3200 - and they're going to get better just like the other formats.

Personally, you can count me as firmly in the APS-C camp with micro four-thirds as my "other" camera. Of course, that's unless a theoretical Pentax APS-C mirrorless camera turns out to be just as small and light as MFT and takes DA Limiteds. Then that'll be my "other" camera.

But for all the technical discussion, let's remember the broader point: It appears that Pentax is no longer a step behind the big boys. The brand is right in there, at the top or very close to the top, in terms of image quality and very possibly (if early reports are backed up by formal tests) in terms of autofocus performance. No camera brand is perfect but Pentaxians now have more than value, Limited primes and legacy glass to point to. This is a very good day, indeed.

Last edited by Biro; 11-06-2010 at 09:45 AM.
11-06-2010, 09:51 AM   #247
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
I have been making this point for some time. The next generation FF sensors will trounce the K-5. But one must still ask: How much is really necessary to satisfy one's own shooting needs? Increasingly, it is looking as though APS-C is good enough for the vast majority of photographic situations, even if FF is superior. That is why I think that we are going to witness a migration from FF to APS-C, though it won't be universal. There will always be IQ fanatics and people who want to shoot in near total darkness for whom nothing less than FF will do.

Rob
well, with all due respect, other than FOV/DOF difference, the K-5 reached in some category the FF/MF category that was never seemed possible, not to mention the K-5 even upstaged some of the much expensive higher-end cameras. for an APS-C sensor camera, that is a great achievement by all means. I could remember some old discussions (last year or two) talked about it is the end of the road for th APS-C size sensor in terms of MP, ISO. now who would have taught that it could reach this level.

of course, there will be better FF in the future, so does APS-C as a cheaper alternative to them. from what it appears, it comes down to economics these days and preference.
11-06-2010, 09:57 AM   #248
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
I have been making this point for some time. The next generation FF sensors will trounce the K-5. But one must still ask: How much is really necessary to satisfy one's own shooting needs? Increasingly, it is looking as though APS-C is good enough for the vast majority of photographic situations, even if FF is superior. That is why I think that we are going to witness a migration from FF to APS-C, though it won't be universal. There will always be IQ fanatics and people who want to shoot in near total darkness for whom nothing less than FF will do.

Rob
For some, only FF, or larger will do. Don't forget that the 645D is not that much bigger than some of the FF bodies out there. As a 645 owner, I'm more tempted by that option if IQ becomes super critical.

Due to an injury, I've had some time to look my shots lately. I'm blown away by the fact that I get shots on my K-x at ISO 12,800 which are more than usable. I'm amazed at the quality print I can get from an ISO 100 shot on the K10d. I am not a pro, but I shot 4 weddings, multiple dance events and a Bat Mitzvah in 2009, and the people who invited me to do so were thrilled with the results. My DSLR bodies aren't up to the results reported for the K-5, but I have found very few tasks I couldn't pull off. There will always be something better, but the state of (Pentax') APS-C has been more than enough to do what I need, and I suspect that is true of the vast majority of enthusiasts or even pros.

11-06-2010, 10:46 AM   #249
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parliament Quote
But for all the technical discussion, let's remember the broader point: It appears that Pentax is no longer a step behind the big boys. .
I think that's insulting to Pentax; I've never felt that they're behind the "big boys". Pentax simply cater for a smaller and more niche market segment than Canikon do. I could take a landscape photo with my 7D, or my K20D (or soon to be K-5...) and it will look awesome regardless of which body I used because it's me that took the photo. Where Pentax have considered to be "behind" (high ISO, AF performance) may be completely irrelevant to most Pentax shooters.

Personally, I think all this high ISO measurbation is meaningless boredom because you can bet your testicles to a barn dance that very few people on these forums will ever shoot that high. Yes, it's nice to know you can use it, but I can't remember the last time I used anything higher than about ISO 2000 other than on occasion where I wanted to test it.

As a casual observation of all internet forums, my god people can talk a good game. Get out and take photos; let your portfolio do the talking, not the sensor.
11-06-2010, 11:12 AM   #250
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Forza pentax!!
11-06-2010, 11:33 AM   #251
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After these stellar results under objective tests, I wonder what kind of bullshit will be posted by RH to try and downplay the K5. It will be curious to see.

It will also be curious to see the usual naysayers about Pentax, those who have been claiming for years that Pentax was dead.
11-06-2010, 11:46 AM   #252
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QuoteOriginally posted by cateto Quote
It will also be curious to see the usual naysayers about Pentax, those who have been claiming for years that Pentax was dead.
Sadly, a lot of those naysayers were Pentaxians.

Regarding RH, he has said mostly positive things although he has lately reported QC issues with scratched K-5 sensors.
11-06-2010, 12:00 PM   #253
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QuoteOriginally posted by robbiec Quote
Yep, Pentax should bundle 5 stickers with each camera.
Our colleagues in the other camps are definitely getting a bit narky though with these DXO results.
I used the DXO results to explain that there would be a world wide shortage around Christmas time, Financial director (the Mrs to be) approved capitol spending!
Indeed, this will cause some upset stomachs until, that is, the next generation of Nikon and Canon APS-C cameras are released. You don't expect those manufacturers to be sitting on their laurels, do you? I fully expect the D400 to surpass the D7000. It's a great game of leapfrog. At least we all know that Pentax is more than capable of beating the big boys at their own game. Whether that will translate into significantly increased sales and migration from the other camps remains to be seen.

Rob
11-06-2010, 12:28 PM   #254
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
Actually the K-5's base ISO is... ISO 80. That's why the enormous DR of 14.1EV is reached at that sensitivity.
I believe that GordonBGood has confirmed this. But is the D7000's sensor truly identical to the K-5's? If so, it should have the same base ISO. I have a feeling that they are not exactly the same. Nikon will very likely up the ante with the D400, as they are probably a bit shocked by the performance of the K-5. This is a challenge that will not go unanswered. Got to love what Pentax is doing.

Rob
11-06-2010, 12:54 PM   #255
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file sizes?

Hi Adam.
So how big are those files, from RAW iso80 to RAW iso51200 The Jpg's from 1 to 4 stars? It could make a nice list how many files to be stored on a card.
Great testing.
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