Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
11-09-2010, 11:41 PM   #346
Senior Member
guillermovilas's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hasselt , Belgium
Posts: 224
QuoteOriginally posted by kittykat46 Quote
The are a lot of cooler heads who are reminding people (correctly) that the difference between the K-5 and the D7000 scores are well within testing tolerance, and the performance is essentially the same.

The difference between the K-R and K-X is even less - the Overall dXOMark score is the same between the two. Easily within testing tolerance and individual body differences.
So I'm confused why people keep saying the K-R is worse....
(low light high ISO)
K-x 811
k-r 755

and i must say that i do believe by experience that there notes are correct :ugh:

I once had 4 Canon bodies : 5d,50d,450d and 1000d and the high ISO performance of each body compared exactly like they said

11-10-2010, 01:38 AM   #347
Pentaxian
dosdan's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,697
QuoteOriginally posted by ManWithCamera Quote
Also, people should keep in mind that the D700 still beats the K-5 in terms of high-ISO performance (signal to noise ratio) up to ISO 6400. The K-5 wins in dynamic range and total score, but full frame still has the advantage in terms of noise (though, the gap is narrowing, when the latest DX is compared to two-year-old FX technology).
But the D700 is 50% heavier (995g vs 670g) and bulkier. I don't like lugging big, heavy cameras around. I don't want a grip either, or shudder, a monstrosity like the D3. Where's the sleek lines in that camera? Pentax puts good performance in reasonably sized, ergonomic packages.

Let's not all bow down at the altar of "Bigger is Better". Otherwise, we'll end up playing games like "My 400/F2.8 on my D3 is bigger than yours, so I must be a more serious photographer than you".

Dan
11-10-2010, 02:08 AM - 1 Like   #348
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,576
QuoteOriginally posted by Hypocorism Quote
That is a huge difference, and I can smell motives like commercial advantage there. So is Canon being an evil rogue who writes their own rules, or is APS-? just some dartboard at a piss-up party for any mfgr to flaunt as much and if they want?
Canon no doubt has technical and business reasons for offering it's DSLRs in 3 sensor sizes (APS-C 1.6 ultracrop - eg 7D, APS-H 1.3 eg 1DMark4, and FF eg 5D2). But as the numbers from DXO show, it does pay a performance penalty for choosing a denser ultracrop format for its consumer DSLRs (like the 7D and 60D).

And no, I don't think APS-C sensor size is regulated by any particular standards body or something - the only loose guideline is that it is a "format approximately equivalent in size to the Advanced Photo System "classic" size negatives. These negatives were 25.1 × 16.7 mm and had an aspect ratio 3:2" according to Wikipedia:
APS-C - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
11-10-2010, 04:03 AM   #349
Pentaxian
falconeye's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Munich, Alps, Germany
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,862
QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
I agree, but... in my own research(its been a long week), I've found that the D700 holds no visible advantage over the K-5 anywhere under ISO5000.
That depends on what you mean by visible...

We have compared D700 vs. K-x ( Falk Lumo: Lumolabs: Sensors of Nikon D700, D5000 and Pentax K-x ) and found a 3 dB SNR advantage for D700 18% gray at ISO 1600 (after demosaicing). BTW, DxO later found a 4 dB advantage (normalized iso) for this pair (before demosaicing).

In our above article, you find crops of noise wedges where you can inspect the effect visually. It is not very noticeable due to 1600 still being excellent for both cameras. It is a bit more visible at 12800 although K-x applies NR which makes the numeric values equal (both our's and DxO's). Interestingly, the eye isn't fooled and sees the 1 stop difference more clearly than at ISO 1600 (the numeric value is for 18% anyway).

As for the K-5, it performs great and manages to maintain the low pixel noise of the K-x despite the higher pixel count (it's even 0.4 dB better at ISO 1600).

The K-5's pixel advantage corresponds to another 1.2 dB but this still isn't enough to beat the D700. It stays 2.9 dB or 1 stop ahead.

You don't easily see the difference at ISO 1600 because of the high overall quality. I assume it will be more visible at ISO 6400 where K-5 applies NR making the numbers equal but doesn't fool the eye. At ISO 12800, the D700 runs into problems because of read-out noise and the K-5 indeed achieves FF performance.

11-10-2010, 07:12 PM   #350
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2010
Photos: Albums
Posts: 337
DxO Indicative Price is wrong

OBSERVATION: The K-5 indicative price in the DxO comparison is $1,374 USD, or $186 less than is currently available in the US.
11-10-2010, 07:27 PM   #351
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,576
QuoteOriginally posted by Rite Quote
The K-5 indicative price in the DxO comparison is $1,374 USD, or $186 less than is currently available in the US
Maybe DXO got a special discount from Pentax. Hence the VIP treatment they gave to the K-5.

[Just kidding, of course. Pls don't kill me.]
11-10-2010, 07:39 PM   #352
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2010
Photos: Albums
Posts: 337
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Maybe DXO got a special discount from Pentax. Hence the VIP treatment they gave to the K-5.
======================================

If DxO's USD review price was the actual Pentax USD SALE PRICE, I might actually BUY it.
11-10-2010, 08:23 PM   #353
Veteran Member
Hypocorism's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Melbourne .au
Posts: 623
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Maybe DXO got a special discount from Pentax. Hence the VIP treatment they gave to the K-5.
Yep maybe wads of cash passed under desks or other clandestine favours were exchanged -- and, if we didn't know that the market will drive that number to look expensive soon enough, then it might even look appealing now.

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
[Just kidding, of course. Pls don't kill me.]
Oh yes, you can rest assured that the resident sycophant apologists will have back-of-neck hair sharply raised at mere sight of your flippancy there.

.R.

11-10-2010, 08:23 PM   #354
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,576
QuoteOriginally posted by Rite Quote
If DxO's USD review price was the actual Pentax USD SALE PRICE
It's all about the exchange rate and the local pricing policies of each Pentax distributor. World-wide, K-5 pricing seems all over the place.

In Australia K-5 body only goes for AUD $1595 minimum, which is equivalent to $1600 USD. So stop complaining And in Australia the K-5 is cheaper by $100 than the D7000 as well. Go figure. It's a mad world.
11-10-2010, 08:52 PM   #355
Pentaxian
bobmaxja's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Laval, Quebec Canada
Posts: 1,699
QuoteOriginally posted by Rite Quote
OBSERVATION: The K-5 indicative price in the DxO comparison is $1,374 USD, or $186 less than is currently available in the US
THis have been fiscussed already . DXO is base in France and that the Euro price converted in USD
In Canada , I am buying the K-5 for $1420 but our $ in stranger than the USD vs Yen
11-10-2010, 10:31 PM   #356
m8o
Veteran Member
m8o's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI]
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,102
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
...which is equivalent to $1600 USD. So stop complaining ...
That's exactly what it's selling for here. And I will not stop complaining.
11-10-2010, 10:34 PM   #357
Pentaxian
JohnBee's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: front of computer
Posts: 4,496
QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
THis have been fiscussed already . DXO is base in France and that the Euro price converted in USD
In Canada , I am buying the K-5 for $1420 but our $ in stranger than the USD vs Yen
The difference between the D7K and K-5 in Canada seems to be aprox. 100 dollars.

I do feel bad for US pricing though... very odd tbh.
11-10-2010, 11:43 PM   #358
Veteran Member
Hypocorism's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Melbourne .au
Posts: 623
QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
The difference between the D7K and K-5 in Canada seems to be aprox. 100 dollars.

I do feel bad for US pricing though... very odd tbh.
I smell it as a calculated strategy by Nikon to entrench their brand and position on US dirt over any and every impending opposition. (eg. C.60D, the other "big on video" prosumer in that space had been creeping down in street price so that has to be contended with hard-hitting impact)

The attack also includes USD100-400 instant rebate sweeteners on most D7000 kits too so it's not just body only bait.

I agree with you though, it's been odd to fathom from the start. Mostly because they obviously don't see need for same game-plan in other market regions, which has to be confusing and or disappointing for many prospective buyers.

All makes Pentax global play look pretty normal, really.

.R.
11-11-2010, 02:23 AM   #359
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 923
Where I live, the K-5 costs USD $ 35 less than the D7000, both body only.

I expect there will soon be various permutations of deals with Kit Lenses, rebates etc. making direct comparisons difficult.

I find it kind of hilarious actually.....Pentax and Nikon are obviously watching their turf very closely, almost removing comparative price from the equation.
11-11-2010, 04:01 AM   #360
Veteran Member
Agnostic's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Netherlands
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 414
Great results and unexpected. Seems someone has been listening to my comments (well ok not really )

I expressed the hope previously that the next DSLR battleground after the megapixel and high iso races would be dynamic range.

What I stated I wanted most for my next DSLR was increased dynamic range and improved dynamic range distribution and a cleaner blue channel a lower iso's for b&w conversions. From what I have seen so far all my wishes have come true. It's been very annoying to see those years old Fuji cams sitting at the top of the dynamic range plot at DXO.

Of course the bad thing is that now it looks like I'm going to have to buy the K5... When the price drops a bit and some full reviews have come in from other sources that is. Hoping it will not be too far from the 1000 Euro mark in a few months.

By the way does anybody have any data on the dynamic range distribution? Is there a distribution curve up somewhere? How much of it is in shadow and highlight areas?
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, dslr, dxomark, k-5, k-5 ii, k-5 iis, k5, pentax k-5, scores, sensors, vs
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DXO Scores Adam Lucas Pentax DSLR Discussion 6 09-27-2010 11:36 AM
DA*60-250mm F4 ED SDm scores high ... jpzk Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 7 01-02-2010 01:19 PM
NFL Scores Predictions thread LeDave General Talk 9 11-18-2009 05:00 AM
Dx0 for Pentax Rick Pentax DSLR Discussion 2 10-27-2007 01:57 PM
DX0 now supports K10D Rick Pentax DSLR Discussion 6 06-01-2007 11:03 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:16 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top