DX0 k-5 scores up

Pentaxor · 11-05-2010, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by ogl

it's outstanding...Pentax made the best APS-C camera ever made...

number 5 among ALL TESTED cameras...

K-5 kills Fuji S5Pro in terms of DR

finally after 4 years, they were able to outdo what Fuji did in the APS-C size sensor department.

dosdan · 11-05-2010, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by Pentaxor

finally after 4 years, they were able to outdo what Fuji did in the APS-C size sensor department.

Actually, up to ISO800 the Fiji Super CCD sensors are still very good performers in most areas (less so if you compare their 6Mpx output normalised to the same 8Mpx output size - DxO's "Print" tab):

DxOMark - Compare sensors

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/Our-publications/DxOMark-Insights/Super-CCD

Dan

melander · 11-06-2010, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by Raylon

I'll clarify this once again. I just threw out a random number. I will probably spend a lot more. If you took the time to read the entire thread and not random posts you would have seen this. I could easily increase that to $4000. I could then get lenses sch as the 70-200 2.8 IS II or the 100-400. Both amazing lenses that Pentax can't match.

You can get the Sigma 120-400, a very good preformer. According to tests out there the center preformance is on pair with the canon and the sigma lens has better edge sharpness. Just because its got a canon lable dosent mean that its superior.

I see options, not problem.

And whats with the obsession on 70-200 lenses, its designed for FF. Get the 50-135 that gives the same Focal lenght on a crop. Cheaper, its a DA* with great weather seals.

Pentaxor · 11-06-2010, 01:12 AM

Originally posted by dosdan

Actually, up to ISO800 the Fiji Super CCD sensors are still very good performers in most areas (less so if you compare their 6Mpx output normalised to the same 8Mpx output size - DxO's "Print" tab):

DxOMark - Compare sensors

DxOMark - Super CCD

Dan

true enough. as long as the prints are along that MP limitation (6MP) and ISO range (100-800), it still packs a powerful punch against the modern day cameras. the consistent DR output at those ISO ranges (which matters most for optimal IQ preservation under such needed exposure sensitivity) still makes it an ideal tool and an irreplaceable instrument. such DR consistency could be attributed to the sensor type used which is Super-CCD which I see produces a consistent DR along those ISO lines, the 1600 and 3200 on the Fuji's I would think are more of boosted ISOs rather than real ISOs. but anyway, considering that the K-5 is using a CMOS sensor and be able to outperform the Fuji's at base ISO's (80-100) and higher ISO's (1600 and over), it is by all means a great achievement already, not to mention that it had outperformed most medium to higher end cameras and clearly demolished all lower and equally bracketed cameras.

I just wonder however on what's the use/purpose or relevance of having the screen measurement values as far as image perception on a screen or any other reason for it is concerned especially with today's screen displays which have more and better MP resolution and size as well? not to mentioned enhanced due to HD? and what's the significance of those screen measurement values on why they are different to those with the print measurement values? is it because of the limitations of the test method used by DxOmarks like they could had used a better printer with more than 300dpi or screen with more resolution could had altered the measurement value results? of course, it seems like that the prints would be the more ideal or actual basis for a camera's IQ capability due to definitive print size and dpi resolution, but why the difference on the outcome in the screen measurement values?

dosdan · 11-06-2010, 01:42 AM

Originally posted by Pentaxor

but why the difference on the outcome in the screen measurement values?

The values under the "Screen tab" are like comparing at 100% crop level i.e. 1 camera pixel = 1 screen pixel. This type of comparison is OK if the two sensors being compared have the same MPx figure or if you are going to print at a bigger size for the higher MPx sensor, say 12MPx sensor output printed at 8"x11.5" compared to 16MPx sensor output at 10"x12" - both are 360ppi. (The printer's actual dpi in the printout is can be much higher.)

The "Print" tab is better if you want to print them at the same size. Then the advantages of the higher Mpx sensor can be included, hopefully just as you'd notice when comparing the two same-sized prints.

Dan.

Pentaxor · 11-06-2010, 02:19 AM

Originally posted by dosdan

The values under the "Screen tab" are like comparing at 100% crop level i.e. 1 camera pixel = 1 screen pixel. This type of comparison is OK if the two sensors being compared have the same MPx figure or if you are going to print at a bigger size for the higher MPx sensor, say 12MPx sensor output printed at 8"x11.5" compared to 16MPx sensor output at 10"x12" - both are 360ppi. (The printer's actual dpi in the printout is can be much higher.)

The "Print" tab is better if you want to print them at the same size. Then the advantages of the higher Mpx sensor can be included, hopefully just as you'd notice when comparing the two same-sized prints.

Dan.

I see. so there are some compromises involved. having said that and as mentioned with regards to 6MP + better DR (ISO 800) versus 16+ MP + good DR (ISO 800), it would come down to what print size and cropping is needed. at 8x11.5, the Fuji is pretty hard to beat at those ISO ranges. bigger image crops or full size prints + base or much Higher ISO would be more for the K-5. I guess Pentax was lucky that Fuji didn't make any 12MP to 14MP sensor. although the X100 might have that DR capability which makes it ideal for landscapes and architectures and selective candid. such DR can come into play especially in those situations printed on a larger scale.

dosdan · 11-06-2010, 02:27 AM

Originally posted by Pentaxor

I guess Pentax was lucky that Fuji didn't make any 12MP to 14MP sensor.

It's a great pity that Fujifilm pulled out of the DSLR marketplace. I've always admired their Super CCD sensor technology. If only...

Dan.

Pentaxor · 11-06-2010, 02:31 AM

Originally posted by dosdan

It's a great pity that Fujifilm pulled out of the DSLR marketplace. I've always admired their Super CCD sensor technology. If only...

Dan.

True. I guess it just proved too costly for them.

Gimbal · 11-06-2010, 02:36 AM

The K-5 looks great so far, now lets hope there is not going to be a mirror/shutter/SR-blur scandal on top of this.

Pentaxor · 11-06-2010, 02:38 AM

Originally posted by Gimbal

The K-5 looks great so far, now lets hope there is not going to be a mirror/shutter/SR-blur scandal on top of this.

none so far. but anyways, people have a year or two to settle it just in case there is.

Hypocorism · 11-06-2010, 03:31 AM

Originally posted by dosdan

It's a great pity that Fujifilm pulled out of the DSLR marketplace. I've always admired their Super CCD sensor technology. If only...

Unlikely they will be the last too methinks. It must be insanely costly now to stay in the DownSeLleR race. Olympus next to fall off, surely?

And how on earth Panasonic and Sony are clinging is beyond me. But both have very deep pockets behind them c/w excellent range and following in P&S, plus they, including Olympus are making good waves in EVIL transition so it probably will soon boil down to "and then there were 3 little indians...", with Hoya the niche market underling in DSLR.

I often wonder if Hoya do play cards right though, and chew away slowly riding on this performance binge if they can sustain it, they might just unseat Nikon at #2 in time too, whom IMhO anyway, seem to be an arrogant lot of bastards content on pretentiousness of name and gouging for much of their DSLR product.

.R.

dosdan · 11-06-2010, 03:40 AM

Originally posted by Hypocorism

I often wonder if Hoya do play cards right though, and chew away slowly riding on this performance binge if they can sustain it, they might just unseat Nikon at #2 in time too

I don't particularly care if that happens or not. I just want to be treated with a bit more respect from department store staff, camera store staff, other photographers, even workmates when I mention that I'm a Pentax shooter.

Dan

**robbiec** · 11-06-2010, 04:05 AM

Originally posted by deadwolfbones

Anyone want to start a rumor that Sony gave the K-5 a better sensor than the D7000 to hurt Nikon's sales?

How about Hoya asking Sony if they still wanted access to good quality blanks for their optics

falconeye · 11-06-2010, 04:07 AM

Originally posted by dosdan

I don't particularly care if that happens or not. I just want to be treated with a bit more respect from department store staff, camera store staff, other photographers, even workmates when I mention that I'm a Pentax shooter.

Dan

Maybe, Pentax should print and distribute
"My other camera is a Pentax"
stickers to Canikon shooters ?

Not that they would take them. But just the stickers lying around in shops would make them nervous.

The back of the sticker should have this text:

"1. Best MF camera: Done
2. Best APSC camera: Done
3. Best ..."

**robbiec** · 11-06-2010, 04:16 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

Maybe, Pentax should print and distribute
"My other camera is a Pentax"
stickers to Canikon shooters ?

Not that they would take them. But just the stickers lying around in shops would make them nervous.

The back of the sticker should have this text:

"1. Best MF camera: Done
2. Best APSC camera: Done
3. Best ..."

Yep, Pentax should bundle 5 stickers with each camera.

Our colleagues in the other camps are definitely getting a bit narky though with these DXO results.
I used the DXO results to explain that there would be a world wide shortage around Christmas time, Financial director (the Mrs to be) approved capitol spending!

11-05-2010, 11:25 PM	#212
dosdan Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,741	Originally posted by Pentaxor finally after 4 years, they were able to outdo what Fuji did in the APS-C size sensor department. Actually, up to ISO800 the Fiji Super CCD sensors are still very good performers in most areas (less so if you compare their 6Mpx output normalised to the same 8Mpx output size - DxO's "Print" tab): DxOMark - Compare sensors http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/Our-publications/DxOMark-Insights/Super-CCD Dan Last edited by dosdan; 11-05-2010 at 11:33 PM.

11-06-2010, 01:42 AM	#215
dosdan Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,741	Originally posted by Pentaxor but why the difference on the outcome in the screen measurement values? The values under the "Screen tab" are like comparing at 100% crop level i.e. 1 camera pixel = 1 screen pixel. This type of comparison is OK if the two sensors being compared have the same MPx figure or if you are going to print at a bigger size for the higher MPx sensor, say 12MPx sensor output printed at 8"x11.5" compared to 16MPx sensor output at 10"x12" - both are 360ppi. (The printer's actual dpi in the printout is can be much higher.) The "Print" tab is better if you want to print them at the same size. Then the advantages of the higher Mpx sensor can be included, hopefully just as you'd notice when comparing the two same-sized prints. Dan. Last edited by dosdan; 11-06-2010 at 01:54 AM.

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11-05-2010, 11:07 PM	#211
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by ogl it's outstanding...Pentax made the best APS-C camera ever made... number 5 among ALL TESTED cameras... K-5 kills Fuji S5Pro in terms of DR finally after 4 years, they were able to outdo what Fuji did in the APS-C size sensor department.

11-06-2010, 01:08 AM	#213
melander Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sweden, Umea Posts: 876	Originally posted by Raylon I'll clarify this once again. I just threw out a random number. I will probably spend a lot more. If you took the time to read the entire thread and not random posts you would have seen this. I could easily increase that to $4000. I could then get lenses sch as the 70-200 2.8 IS II or the 100-400. Both amazing lenses that Pentax can't match. You can get the Sigma 120-400, a very good preformer. According to tests out there the center preformance is on pair with the canon and the sigma lens has better edge sharpness. Just because its got a canon lable dosent mean that its superior. I see options, not problem. And whats with the obsession on 70-200 lenses, its designed for FF. Get the 50-135 that gives the same Focal lenght on a crop. Cheaper, its a DA* with great weather seals.

11-06-2010, 01:12 AM	#214
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by dosdan Actually, up to ISO800 the Fiji Super CCD sensors are still very good performers in most areas (less so if you compare their 6Mpx output normalised to the same 8Mpx output size - DxO's "Print" tab): DxOMark - Compare sensors DxOMark - Super CCD Dan true enough. as long as the prints are along that MP limitation (6MP) and ISO range (100-800), it still packs a powerful punch against the modern day cameras. the consistent DR output at those ISO ranges (which matters most for optimal IQ preservation under such needed exposure sensitivity) still makes it an ideal tool and an irreplaceable instrument. such DR consistency could be attributed to the sensor type used which is Super-CCD which I see produces a consistent DR along those ISO lines, the 1600 and 3200 on the Fuji's I would think are more of boosted ISOs rather than real ISOs. but anyway, considering that the K-5 is using a CMOS sensor and be able to outperform the Fuji's at base ISO's (80-100) and higher ISO's (1600 and over), it is by all means a great achievement already, not to mention that it had outperformed most medium to higher end cameras and clearly demolished all lower and equally bracketed cameras. I just wonder however on what's the use/purpose or relevance of having the screen measurement values as far as image perception on a screen or any other reason for it is concerned especially with today's screen displays which have more and better MP resolution and size as well? not to mentioned enhanced due to HD? and what's the significance of those screen measurement values on why they are different to those with the print measurement values? is it because of the limitations of the test method used by DxOmarks like they could had used a better printer with more than 300dpi or screen with more resolution could had altered the measurement value results? of course, it seems like that the prints would be the more ideal or actual basis for a camera's IQ capability due to definitive print size and dpi resolution, but why the difference on the outcome in the screen measurement values?

11-06-2010, 02:19 AM	#216
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by dosdan The values under the "Screen tab" are like comparing at 100% crop level i.e. 1 camera pixel = 1 screen pixel. This type of comparison is OK if the two sensors being compared have the same MPx figure or if you are going to print at a bigger size for the higher MPx sensor, say 12MPx sensor output printed at 8"x11.5" compared to 16MPx sensor output at 10"x12" - both are 360ppi. (The printer's actual dpi in the printout is can be much higher.) The "Print" tab is better if you want to print them at the same size. Then the advantages of the higher Mpx sensor can be included, hopefully just as you'd notice when comparing the two same-sized prints. Dan. I see. so there are some compromises involved. having said that and as mentioned with regards to 6MP + better DR (ISO 800) versus 16+ MP + good DR (ISO 800), it would come down to what print size and cropping is needed. at 8x11.5, the Fuji is pretty hard to beat at those ISO ranges. bigger image crops or full size prints + base or much Higher ISO would be more for the K-5. I guess Pentax was lucky that Fuji didn't make any 12MP to 14MP sensor. although the X100 might have that DR capability which makes it ideal for landscapes and architectures and selective candid. such DR can come into play especially in those situations printed on a larger scale.

11-06-2010, 02:27 AM	#217
dosdan Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,741	Originally posted by Pentaxor I guess Pentax was lucky that Fuji didn't make any 12MP to 14MP sensor. It's a great pity that Fujifilm pulled out of the DSLR marketplace. I've always admired their Super CCD sensor technology. If only... Dan.

11-06-2010, 02:31 AM	#218
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by dosdan It's a great pity that Fujifilm pulled out of the DSLR marketplace. I've always admired their Super CCD sensor technology. If only... Dan. True. I guess it just proved too costly for them.

11-06-2010, 02:36 AM	#219
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	The K-5 looks great so far, now lets hope there is not going to be a mirror/shutter/SR-blur scandal on top of this.

11-06-2010, 02:38 AM	#220
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by Gimbal The K-5 looks great so far, now lets hope there is not going to be a mirror/shutter/SR-blur scandal on top of this. none so far. but anyways, people have a year or two to settle it just in case there is.

11-06-2010, 03:31 AM	#221
Hypocorism Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Melbourne .au Posts: 623	Originally posted by dosdan It's a great pity that Fujifilm pulled out of the DSLR marketplace. I've always admired their Super CCD sensor technology. If only... Unlikely they will be the last too methinks. It must be insanely costly now to stay in the DownSeLleR race. Olympus next to fall off, surely? And how on earth Panasonic and Sony are clinging is beyond me. But both have very deep pockets behind them c/w excellent range and following in P&S, plus they, including Olympus are making good waves in EVIL transition so it probably will soon boil down to "and then there were 3 little indians...", with Hoya the niche market underling in DSLR. I often wonder if Hoya do play cards right though, and chew away slowly riding on this performance binge if they can sustain it, they might just unseat Nikon at #2 in time too, whom IMhO anyway, seem to be an arrogant lot of bastards content on pretentiousness of name and gouging for much of their DSLR product. .R.

11-06-2010, 03:40 AM	#222
dosdan Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,741	Originally posted by Hypocorism I often wonder if Hoya do play cards right though, and chew away slowly riding on this performance binge if they can sustain it, they might just unseat Nikon at #2 in time too I don't particularly care if that happens or not. I just want to be treated with a bit more respect from department store staff, camera store staff, other photographers, even workmates when I mention that I'm a Pentax shooter. Dan

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11-06-2010, 04:05 AM	#223
robbiec Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cork Photos: Albums Posts: 1,882	Originally posted by deadwolfbones Anyone want to start a rumor that Sony gave the K-5 a better sensor than the D7000 to hurt Nikon's sales? How about Hoya asking Sony if they still wanted access to good quality blanks for their optics

11-06-2010, 04:07 AM	#224
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by dosdan I don't particularly care if that happens or not. I just want to be treated with a bit more respect from department store staff, camera store staff, other photographers, even workmates when I mention that I'm a Pentax shooter. Dan Maybe, Pentax should print and distribute "My other camera is a Pentax" stickers to Canikon shooters ? Not that they would take them. But just the stickers lying around in shops would make them nervous. The back of the sticker should have this text: "1. Best MF camera: Done 2. Best APSC camera: Done 3. Best ..."

11-06-2010, 04:16 AM	#225
robbiec Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cork Photos: Albums Posts: 1,882	Originally posted by falconeye Maybe, Pentax should print and distribute "My other camera is a Pentax" stickers to Canikon shooters ? Not that they would take them. But just the stickers lying around in shops would make them nervous. The back of the sticker should have this text: "1. Best MF camera: Done 2. Best APSC camera: Done 3. Best ..." Yep, Pentax should bundle 5 stickers with each camera. Our colleagues in the other camps are definitely getting a bit narky though with these DXO results. I used the DXO results to explain that there would be a world wide shortage around Christmas time, Financial director (the Mrs to be) approved capitol spending!