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11-15-2010, 05:21 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by jonoslack Quote
Deary me
The M9 certainly has it's foibles, but it's increasingly being used as a landscape camera. The lack of an AA filter, together with the really splendid lenses make it a real winner.
'definition and quality of a ten years old P&S'? really - that's emotive, and hasn't any basis in reality. It does very well for resolutionagainst other full frame high MP cameras (D3x and A900 come to mind). I've not heard anyone defining the resolution of the D3x as being that of a 10 year old p&s.

I suppose it's possible you haven't even tried one?
I feel like he was saying that the rear LCD has the resolution of a 10 year old P&S. But I may be wrong...

11-15-2010, 05:36 PM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by FullertonImages Quote
I feel like he was saying that the rear LCD has the resolution of a 10 year old P&S. But I may be wrong...
So he was - but the main point arises, however good the K5 may be (or the 645) the M9 makes an excellent landscape camera, and perceived reliability may be at least partly a function of increased grumpiness in people who have spent a lot of money!

Personally, 2 M8's and 2 M9's have behaved impeccably since whenever it was the M8 came out - with will over 50,000 collective presses, lots of travel, tricky circumstances (including rain / sand / snow / falling camera down on scree) - the only thing that's suffered is the paint job (brassy corners). I know this isn't a statistical sample, but I'm aware of lots of others, professional and otherwise who rely on them. Glib dismissals of something one has used a camera for continuously for over around 4 years is a little galling.

Which detracts nothing from the K5, which seems to be a lovely and well thought out camera with excellent image quality and a stunningly quiet shutter (yes, I think it's probably quieter than the M9).

Anyway - apologies for misconception - and boring qualification!
11-15-2010, 06:21 PM   #78
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Not knocking the Leica, but, for $3290 LESS than the M9, and the cheapest M mount Leica lens I could find on B&H ( 50mm f/2.5 Summarit-M Manual Focus Lens (Black) ) you can get the K5, and the DA15 Ltd, FA 21 Ltd, the FA31 Ltd, The FA43 Ltd, AND the FA77 Ltd. Seems like a no brainer to me....
11-15-2010, 07:32 PM   #79
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Not really a no brainer. The Pentax does not have the elegance, simplicity and beauty of the Leica. A Ford will drive you places just like a BMW for much less money but I know which I'd rather have.

The Mamiya 7II was a range finder camera and has been used for landscape photography. It's not really that much of a problem.

11-15-2010, 07:33 PM   #80
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Some great photos there too Jonoslack
11-15-2010, 08:41 PM   #81
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My, my. We have attracted the Leica-philes into our forums. That K-5 must be something.
11-15-2010, 10:11 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by pjtn Quote
Not really a no brainer. The Pentax does not have the elegance, simplicity and beauty of the Leica.
I have to say that I'm sure they're nice cameras, and I've never personally used one nor have I seen RAW files from one, so maybe I'm just not qualified to have an opinion on this, but...

I really don't get the whole fanatical allure of the leica thing. It's a camera, not a sex toy. I feel like Leica users are a little too into the whole 'joy of use' thing. I get that they are fine-crafted cameras and all that, but who cares?

Cameras come down to three things ultimately:

-Image Quality: How good the images are that come out of it.
-Capabilities: What it can and can't do.
-User Experience: Ease of use, Ergonomics, User Interface, over all feel, etc.

When I look at the Leica price tags and what you get for them, I can't help feeling like they are a waste of money. You don't get a proportional increase in those three things above for the amount of money paid extra. I understand the law of diminishing returns, but there is a limit to that.

When you pay a lot more money for a 1DmkIV over a 7D, you get a crap load more for your money. I feel like Leica are like a Rolex. You pay a crapload more money than everyone else and in the end, you get the same time of day and the guy who has a $5 watch. Except you, also get a bonar from looking at your sex toy watch.
11-15-2010, 10:38 PM   #83
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What really matters......I will have the K5 soon enough....well, not soon enough really, but soon. Then I will perform the ultimate test...what everyone really wants to know....how will the K5 shoot Squirrels? I'm betting it will be superb...anyone want to bet?

Otis bets a bag of Peanuts and two Apples on the K5....
[IMG] [/IMG]

Best Regards!

11-15-2010, 10:44 PM   #84
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I'm more concerned about how it shoot random pieces of crap in people's living rooms.

Oh wait, we've seen plenty of that...
11-15-2010, 11:45 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by FullertonImages Quote
I feel like he was saying that the rear LCD has the resolution of a 10 year old P&S. But I may be wrong...
Correct, that's what I wrote and what I meant.
11-15-2010, 11:49 PM   #86
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Aw well, there are some test samples up on imaging resource now. Comparing the 5D MKII and K5 together it's quite clear that the 5D MKII has a much sharper more detailed image.
11-15-2010, 11:51 PM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by jonoslack Quote
Deary me
The M9 certainly has it's foibles, but it's increasingly being used as a landscape camera. The lack of an AA filter, together with the really splendid lenses make it a real winner.
'definition and quality of a ten years old P&S'? really - that's emotive, and hasn't any basis in reality. It does very well for resolutionagainst other full frame high MP cameras (D3x and A900 come to mind). I've not heard anyone defining the resolution of the D3x as being that of a 10 year old p&s.

I suppose it's possible you haven't even tried one?
Jono pls read me nicely, I am talking of the SCREEN !
11-15-2010, 11:54 PM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by FullertonImages Quote
When you pay a lot more money for a 1DmkIV over a 7D, you get a crap load more for your money.
That's part of the problem, the more you pay the more features you keep getting. That's the beauty of a Leica, it's simple, beautiful and well machined. If you think things don't have to look nice, why do you try making photographs look nice?

I'm also a designer and I really appreciate when a company can make something look good. For me too there is no better design than a simple one. All I want is a focus ring, shutter button, aperture dial, shutter dial and ISO dial. Everything else just gets in the way.

You can view these things as just a tool but it's also the product of someone else's creativity.
11-15-2010, 11:59 PM   #89
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Wouldn't surprice me if you get your dreams come true about a WR version of an existing wide angle. After the upgrading of the DA100 macro it would be logical. But why not a DA14 f2.8 WR?

Last edited by Douglas_of_Sweden; 11-16-2010 at 04:10 PM. Reason: typo
11-16-2010, 02:41 AM   #90
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HI Steve
QuoteOriginally posted by Stratman Quote
Not knocking the Leica, but, for $3290 LESS than the M9, and the cheapest M mount Leica lens I could find on B&H ( 50mm f/2.5 Summarit-M Manual Focus Lens (Black) ) you can get the K5, and the DA15 Ltd, FA 21 Ltd, the FA31 Ltd, The FA43 Ltd, AND the FA77 Ltd. Seems like a no brainer to me....
Well, if someone made someone make a decision between the two, then the K5 really does sound like a bit of a no brainer (forget the manual focus - manual focusing on a Leica is part of the point). If I had to make a decision . . . well, I'm afraid I might still choose the Leica, but it's because of the way I shoot, not because of any inherent superiority.

But who ever said it had to be either / or? Rangefinder cameras encourage a completely different way of shooting, and a different response from your subject (if it's a person). If you haven't shot with one, then you wouldn't know that!

I'm really enjoying the K5 - it's nicely made, great to use and the limited lenses seem to be really excellent (and great value for money). It's certainly not meant to be a substitute for my M9. On the other hand, it certainly doesn't feel like a Ford to the leica's BMW. Build quality and that lovely shutter are fantastic.

Toopy - I'm really sorry to have misread you - big apologies - but I stick to my point that the M9 makes a splendid landscape camera, and there are lots of splendid landscape shots out there to prove it!
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