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11-10-2010, 02:57 AM   #1
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K5 High ISO low light images please

Hi guys
Ive trolled the forum for the last hour and yet to come across a thread that has plenty of K5 High ISO low light images

Ive just got back from a basketball game with a K7 and had the ISO up to 1600. this enabled a 1/40 shutter speed at 2.8....not quick enough for available light photography, but with the noise that we don't want..3200 i would have been to select 1/80, and with a 200mm lens is not so good

at 12800 id been able to get 1/320..which would be much better...so it has me thinking should I ditch the two month old K7, burn about $900 au and grab a K5....

if you could please post some low light High ISO images with the K5 please to help me to decide...either bite the bullet of stay put for a while...

Id appreciate no noise reduction in PP please...just straight of the camera if anyone has some type of fast moving sport pictures that would be fantastic

thanks guys....

11-10-2010, 05:41 AM   #2
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Few tread already exist
Here one
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/118386-k-5-low-light-high-iso-samples.html
11-10-2010, 06:01 AM   #3
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The link is broken
11-10-2010, 02:24 PM   #4
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yep I get nothing either from that Link..

11-10-2010, 03:01 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
Seems like nobody answered your thread yet, and with good reasons.

I'll explain: you would need to just do a "search" and you will be flooded on the number of threads and posts on this very subject.
You'll find stuff just like this:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/118728-k-5-dng-raw-iso-case-study-6400-51200-a.html

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/115535-k-5-vs-k-7-firs...so-6400-a.html

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/118728-k-5-dng-raw-iso-case-study-6400-51200-a.html

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/116026-k-5-vs-d700-iso...w-samples.html

So, it is always a good idea to do a search before posting a potentially well-spoken-of-subject.

Hope the links help.

Cheers.

JP

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/118386-k-5-low-light-high-iso-samples.html
Here the links
11-10-2010, 08:38 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
Here the links
Thanks for the reminder Bob, but there are in fact broken links from what I could try, namely No. 1 and No. 3 which are the same threads also.
Looks like the actual link is not "written" properly vs. the others.

Here is the faulty one in its corrected version:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/118728-k-5-dng-raw...0-51200-a.html
The second and fourth links are OK.

JP

Last edited by jpzk; 11-10-2010 at 08:44 PM.
11-11-2010, 04:25 AM   #7
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Original Poster
thanks for the help guys,,,
11-11-2010, 06:04 AM   #8
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No need to look. The K-5 low light performace is FANTASTIC!!

I just shot a volleyball game in a gym with terrible lighting. All shots were at ISO 6400 and the noise was better than my K10D at ISO 1600. But as well as the reduced noise and faster shutter speeds, the AF was MUCH FASTER and I could now focus instantaneously on the action as it was happening instead of having to pre-focus and wait for the action to come into my focus plane.

Also, with more megapixels and less noise I was able to do some cropping and still maintain a good quality image.

The result was that my keeper rate increased from less than 25% for the K10D to about 95% for the K-5. Now that the camera is no longer holding me back in this situation I feel that the bar is raised and I will have to improve my photography skills accordingly to take advantage of the new capabilities.

Here is one example (after processing in LR to adjust WB, apply noise reduction [sorry], crop and rotate, but the image is 100% -- click on the image to see the full size). These bump shots are difficult because you never know where the ball will come down -- much more difficult than spikes and blocks because these are always at the net. The only reason I was able to capture this shot is because of the much improved (fast and accurate) AF of the K-5:



- Phil


Last edited by boardhead; 11-11-2010 at 06:14 AM.
11-11-2010, 06:56 AM   #9
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Thanks boardhead, thats just the shot i was after. impressive when i realized it was 100% crop, the full size image looks great..any exif of that image ?
11-11-2010, 07:42 AM   #10
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Glad this helped. The image contains full EXIF, but here is the exiftool output for you:

---- ExifTool ----
ExifTool Version Number : 8.39
---- System ----
File Name : IMGP0281.jpg
Directory : /Users/phil/Desktop
File Size : 6.4 MB
File Modification Date/Time : 2010:11:11 09:40:53-05:00
File Permissions : rw-r--r--
---- File ----
File Type : JPEG
MIME Type : image/jpeg
Exif Byte Order : Little-endian (Intel, II)
Current IPTC Digest : 7aa646bd294f919a0fc03e0c466e7ba9
Image Width : 2354
Image Height : 3553
Encoding Process : Baseline DCT, Huffman coding
Bits Per Sample : 8
Color Components : 3
Y Cb Cr Sub Sampling : YCbCr4:4:4 (1 1)
---- IFD0 ----
Make : PENTAX
Camera Model Name : PENTAX K-5
X Resolution : 240
Y Resolution : 240
Resolution Unit : inches
Software : PENTAX Digital Camera Utility Ver.4.31
Modify Date : 2010:11:10 18:39:04
---- ExifIFD ----
Exposure Time : 1/800
F Number : 2.8
Exposure Program : Aperture-priority AE
ISO : 6400
Exif Version : 0221
Date/Time Original : 2010:11:09 17:44:21
Create Date : 2010:11:09 17:44:21
Shutter Speed Value : 1/800
Aperture Value : 2.8
Exposure Compensation : 0
Metering Mode : Multi-segment
Flash : Off, Did not fire
Focal Length : 80.0 mm
Sensing Method : One-chip color area
Custom Rendered : Normal
Exposure Mode : Auto
White Balance : Manual
Focal Length In 35mm Format : 120 mm
Scene Capture Type : Standard
Contrast : Normal
Saturation : Normal
Sharpness : Normal
Subject Distance Range : Distant
---- Pentax ----
Pentax Version : 7.0.0.0
Pentax Model Type : 0
Preview Image Size : 640x480
Preview Image Length : 0
Preview Image Start : 35150
Pentax Model ID : K-5
Date : 2010:11:09
Time : 17:44:21
Quality : RAW
Flash Mode : Off, Did not fire; Internal
Focus Mode : AF-S
AF Point Selected : Fixed Center
Exposure Time : 1/800
F Number : 2.8
ISO : 6400
Exposure Compensation : 0
Metering Mode : Multi-segment
Auto Bracketing : 0 EV, No Extended Bracket
White Balance : Manual
Focal Length : 80.0 mm
Saturation : Normal
Contrast : Normal
Sharpness : Normal
DSP Firmware Version : 1.00.00.01
CPU Firmware Version : 1.00.00.01
Effective LV : 6.5
Picture Mode : Aperture Priority; 1/3 EV steps
Drive Mode : Single-frame; No Timer; Shutter Button; Single Exposure
Color Space : sRGB
Image Area Offset : 22 10
Raw Image Size : 4928x3264
Preview Image Borders : 28 28 0 0
Lens Type : smc PENTAX-DA* 50-135mm F2.8 ED [IF] SDM
Camera Temperature : 30 C
AE Lock : Off
Noise Reduction : Off
Flash Exposure Comp : 0
Image Tone : Natural
SR Result : Not stabilized
Shake Reduction : On (7)
SR Half Press Time : 0.43 s
SR Focal Length : 80 mm
Shutter Count : 273
Faces Detected : 0
Face Position : 0 0
Hue : Normal
Tungsten AWB : Strong Correction
Dynamic Range Expansion : Off
World Time Location : Hometown
Hometown DST : No
Destination DST : No
Hometown City : Toronto
Destination City : Toronto
High/Low Key Adj : 0
Contrast Highlight : 0
Contrast Shadow : 0
Contrast Highlight/Shadow Adj : Off
Fine Sharpness : Off; Normal
High ISO Noise Reduction : Medium; Active (Medium)
AF Adjustment : 0
Monochrome Filter Effect : None
Monochrome Toning : None
Face Detect : Off; 0 faces detected
Face Detect Frame Size : 0 0
Shadow Compensation : Off
Distortion Correction : Off
Chromatic Aberration Correction : Off
Bleach Bypass Toning : Off
Black Point : 0 0 0 0
White Point : 13248 8192 8192 16256
Picture Mode 2 : Aperture Priority
Program Line : Normal
EV Steps : 1/3 EV steps
E-Dial In Program : Tv or Av
Aperture Ring Use : Prohibited
Flash Options : Normal
Metering Mode 2 : Multi-segment
AF Point Mode : Fixed Center
Focus Mode 2 : AF-S
AF Point Selected 2 : Center
ISO Floor : 6400
Drive Mode 2 : Single-frame
Exposure Bracket Step Size : 0.3
Bracket Shot Number : n/a
White Balance Set : Auto
Multiple Exposure Set : Off
AE Exposure Time : 1/683
AE Aperture : 2.8
AE ISO : 6400
AE Xv : 0
AEB Xv : 0
AE Min Exposure Time : 1/7723
AE Program Mode : Av, B or X
AE Max Aperture : 0.1
AE Max Aperture 2 : 2.8
AE Min Aperture : 3
AE Metering Mode : [2], [3], [7]
Flash Exposure Comp Set : +8.0
Lens Type : smc PENTAX-DA* 50-135mm F2.8 ED [IF] SDM
Auto Aperture : On
Min Aperture : 22
Lens F Stops : 8.5
Focal Length : 80.0 mm
Nominal Max Aperture : 2.8
Nominal Min Aperture : 23
Max Aperture : 1.0
Flash Status : Off (1)
Internal Flash Mode : n/a - Off-Auto-Aperture
External Flash Mode : Not Connected
Internal Flash Strength : 63
TTL DA A Up : 0
TTL DA A Down : 0
TTL DA B Up : 0
TTL DA B Down : 0
External Flash Guide Number : n/a
External Flash Exposure Comp : n/a
External Flash Bounce : n/a
AE Metering Segments : 4.2 4.1 5.1 5.1 5.9 6.1 5.6 6.4 6.6 6.4 6.4 4.4 4.2 5.2 5.2 6.0 6.1 5.8 6.4 6.6 6.5 6.6 4.4 4.5 5.1 5.0 5.9 5.9 5.9 6.2 6.5 6.4 6.6 4.4 4.9 4.9 4.9 5.9 6.0 6.8 4.9 5.5 6.1 6.4 4.5 4.8 5.0 4.0 5.5 5.9 6.2 5.4 5.8 5.9 6.4 4.4 4.5 5.2 5.5 5.9 5.9 5.9 6.0 6.2 6.1 6.2 4.2 4.9 5.8 5.5 6.1 6.5 6.6 6.8 6.4 5.8 6.1
Flash Metering Segments : 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Slave Flash Metering Segments : 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Pentax Model ID : K-5
Manufacture Date : 2010:10:12
Production Code : 2.1
Internal Serial Number : 13203
Power Source : Body Battery
Body Battery State : Full
Body Battery A/D No Load : 2
Body Battery A/D Load : 234
Grip Battery A/D No Load : 2
Grip Battery A/D Load : 202
AF Predictor : -4
AF Defocus : 2
AF Integration Time : 30 ms
AF Points In Focus : Center (vertical)
WB Shift AB : 0
WB Shift MG : 0
EV Steps : 1/3 EV Steps
Sensitivity Steps : 1 EV Steps
Camera Orientation : Rotate 90 CW
Serial Number : 3836389
Level Orientation : Rotate 90 CW
Roll Angle : 0
Pitch Angle : -9
---- IFD1 ----
Compression : JPEG (old-style)
X Resolution : 72
Y Resolution : 72
Resolution Unit : inches
Thumbnail Offset : 35244
Thumbnail Length : 17129
---- Photoshop ----
X Resolution : 240
Displayed Units X : inches
Y Resolution : 240
Displayed Units Y : inches
Photoshop Thumbnail : (Binary data 17129 bytes, use -b option to extract)
IPTC Digest : 7aa646bd294f919a0fc03e0c466e7ba9
---- IPTC ----
Application Record Version : 2
Keywords : new keyword
---- ICC-header ----
Profile CMM Type : Lino
Profile Version : 2.1.0
Profile Class : Display Device Profile
Color Space Data : RGB
Profile Connection Space : XYZ
Profile Date Time : 1998:02:09 06:49:00
Profile File Signature : acsp
Primary Platform : Microsoft Corporation
CMM Flags : Not Embedded, Independent
Device Manufacturer : IEC
Device Model : sRGB
Device Attributes : Reflective, Glossy, Positive, Color
Rendering Intent : Perceptual
Connection Space Illuminant : 0.9642 1 0.82491
Profile Creator : HP
Profile ID : 0
---- ICC_Profile ----
Profile Copyright : Copyright (c) 1998 Hewlett-Packard Company
Profile Description : sRGB IEC61966-2.1
Media White Point : 0.95045 1 1.08905
Media Black Point : 0 0 0
Red Matrix Column : 0.43607 0.22249 0.01392
Green Matrix Column : 0.38515 0.71687 0.09708
Blue Matrix Column : 0.14307 0.06061 0.7141
Device Mfg Desc : IEC IEC - International Electrotechnical Commission > INTERNATIONAL STANDARDS AND CONFORMITY ASSESSMENT
Device Model Desc : IEC 61966-2.1 Default RGB colour space - sRGB
Viewing Cond Desc : Reference Viewing Condition in IEC61966-2.1
Luminance : 76.03647 80 87.12462
Technology : Cathode Ray Tube Display
Red Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Green Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Blue Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
---- ICC-view ----
Viewing Cond Illuminant : 19.6445 20.3718 16.8089
Viewing Cond Surround : 3.92889 4.07439 3.36179
Viewing Cond Illuminant Type : D50
---- ICC-meas ----
Measurement Observer : CIE 1931
Measurement Backing : 0 0 0
Measurement Geometry : Unknown (0)
Measurement Flare : 0.999%
Measurement Illuminant : D65
---- Adobe ----
DCT Encode Version : 100
APP14 Flags 0 : [14]
APP14 Flags 1 : (none)
Color Transform : YCbCr
---- Composite ----
Aperture : 2.8
Base Name : IMGP0281
File Extension : jpg
File Type Description : Joint Photographic Experts Group
Image Size : 2354x3553
Lens ID : smc PENTAX-DA* 50-135mm F2.8 ED [IF] SDM
Scale Factor To 35 mm Equivalent: 1.5
Shutter Speed : 1/800
Thumbnail Image : (Binary data 17129 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Circle Of Confusion : 0.016 mm
Field Of View : 17.1 deg
Focal Length : 80.0 mm (35 mm equivalent: 120.0 mm)
Hyperfocal Distance : 138.68 m
Light Value : 6.6

Hmmm. Looks like I probably didn't rotate this particular image in post-processing after all. The RollAngle was exactly 0 degrees! (I'm impressed, because that is hard to do -- the electronic level measures with a 0.5 degree accuracy.)

- Phil

Last edited by boardhead; 11-11-2010 at 08:16 AM.
11-11-2010, 08:05 AM   #11
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One more perhaps interesting point:

I just thought that maybe I could quantify the one aspect of the improved AF. I looked at all of the images shot in this gym with the K-5, and compared this to my previous volleyball session with the K10D under similar lighting conditions. The AF integration time for all of the K-5 shots was 24-30ms, while for the K10D it ranged from 42-90ms with the same lens. This is the exposure time required for the AF sensor before it starts driving the lens. From this, I can infer that the K-5 AF sensor is 2-3x more sensitive on the K-5 compared to my old K10D. Cool.

- Phil

Last edited by boardhead; 11-11-2010 at 08:18 AM.
11-11-2010, 08:25 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tommot1965 Quote
Thanks boardhead, thats just the shot i was after. impressive when i realized it was 100% crop, the full size image looks great..any exif of that image ?
You only see it 100% crop when you click on it - it's a 8.4mpix crop it seems.

Well, I'm not that impressed. I was expecting ISO 6400 to be at least as good as ISO 1600 on my K10D, but now I'm not 100% sure.

boardhead: I assume this was an in-camera JPEG? I'm not very pleased by the look of the JPEG processing. I guess it may look nice on paper, but it looks very "processed" when pixel-peeping. My K10D RAW files taken at ISO 1600 under similar light levels may have a little more noise, but they seem more "natural". Here there seems to be that "P&S look" with lots of noise reduction and sharpening going on at the same time.. Also, the colors are a little off, but I guess WB was adjusted not quite to my taste (too much magenta).
11-11-2010, 08:26 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by boardhead Quote
One more perhaps interesting point:

I just thought that maybe I could quantify the one aspect of the improved AF. I looked at all of the images shot in this gym with the K-5, and compared this to my previous volleyball session with the K10D under similar lighting conditions. The AF integration time for all of the K-5 shots was 24-30ms, while for the K10D it ranged from 42-90ms with the same lens. This is the exposure time required for the AF sensor before it starts driving the lens. From this, I can infer that the K-5 AF sensor is 2-3x more sensitive on the K-5 compared to my old K10D. Cool.

- Phil
That's really cool, yes! Very tempting for this K10D owner
11-11-2010, 08:45 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
You only see it 100% crop when you click on it - it's a 8.4mpix crop it seems.

Well, I'm not that impressed. I was expecting ISO 6400 to be at least as good as ISO 1600 on my K10D, but now I'm not 100% sure.
As an owner of both cameras I can assure that ISO6400 on the K-5 is better than ISO1600 on the K10D. I'm not sure which has less noise, but in any case the K-5's noise is far more usable than the K10D's. The K-5 has no pattern noise, so it's really easy to remove.

Perhaps your K10D is a better copy than mine, but while I never felt entirely safe at ISO1600 on my K10D, I have no hesitation to use ISO6400 on my K-5.
11-11-2010, 08:53 AM   #15
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gazonk: As I said, this image has noise reduction applied in lightroom. Yes, you can see some artifacts from this. Unfortunately I don't have the original here so I can't show you an unprocessed version of this picture. And yes, the WB could use some more tweaking, but I don't expect to ever get a perfect result since it was a random mix of 2 or 3 different types of lights across the gym floor. (Apparently they were replacing the burnt out tungsten lights with fluorescent or something like this.)
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