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11-11-2010, 11:02 PM   #16
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It has been MY experience when testing lenses, a Paper target is the worse thing that I can use. Others may have better luck but unless exposure is Dead on, there will be a glow around edges, especially the type shown in the example you post. Even with a real life (non paper) target, this can be the case. If I'm going to test a lens, I prefer to pick a daylight lit object and fire away. Such as in my 50mm Shootout. Yes, they were all done with a K5.



11-11-2010, 11:02 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Atindra Quote
Only thing I like about DPR is their buzzing forum.
I HATE the forums! So un-user-friendly! If only they were set up like this one, i would be on them all the time! (so maybe it's a good thing they're not! This forum takes up too much of my time as it is!)

QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
I think a better, more scientific approach would be to use a good 3rd party lens that is available in various mounts.
They would have to use a prime lens though. A zoom would be too hard to adjust focal length perfectly, except if they were using it at either end - which isn't usually the sweet spot of a zoom...
11-12-2010, 12:12 AM   #18
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Not only that the canon is $600 dollars cheaper than the k-5 body. What's up with that?
I am personally holding off on buying the k-5 until the price drops or there are more test results. I got so burned on the k-7 I am a little gun shy.
If i didn't have a couple of good sigma lenses for pentax I would change for sure.

Last edited by garyk; 11-12-2010 at 12:24 AM.
11-12-2010, 12:25 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by garyk Quote
Not only that the canon is $600 dollars cheaper than the k-5 body. What's up with that?
I am personally holding off on buying the k-5 until the price drops or there are more test results. I got so burned on the k-7 I am a little gun shy.
If i didn't have a couple of good sigma lenses for pentax I would change for sure.
Change to what?

11-12-2010, 12:26 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by garyk Quote
Not only that the canon is $600 dollars cheaper than the k-5 body. What's up with that?
I am personally holding off on buying the k-5 until the price drops or there are more test results. I got so burned on the k-7 I am a little gun shy.
If i didn't have a couple of good sigma lenses for pentax I would change for sure.
You bought pentax for the lenses, not the body, right? In any case you certainly don't need the K5 the K7 is a good body and if you wait you will be able to buy even newer technology.
11-12-2010, 12:43 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
It seems to be a fundamental flaw in the testing procedures that they are using completely different lenses. I think a better, more scientific approach would be to use a good 3rd party lens that is available in various mounts.
This is so bloody obvious to anyone with half a brain that i just ASSUMED they were using a sigma or whatever with the same lens available in all mounts.

Can someone with the exif's clarify exactly what is what 60d, d7000 and k-5 wise?
11-12-2010, 01:20 AM   #22
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Honestly if you go to the page that lets you compare the iso in raw, the K-5 has an advantage over all of them.
11-12-2010, 01:49 AM   #23
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DPR is like that for many years. Reviewers are surprising pro canon.
And the way they word their conclusions is many times to put down another maker and accentuate for canon.

I can come up with many examples but for the sake of putting the point across, here is one:

DPR canon 550d

"Image Quality

As you can see from the shooting that we've done for this test, the EOS 550D sets new standards for resolution in its class. In favorable conditions, in raw mode, it is clear that the 550D can unequivocally resolve more detail than an equivalent camera with 12 or 14 million pixels. Resolution in JPEG mode is lower than RAW, as we would expect, but at a pixel level, the difference should not concern most users. Unfortunately, however, the high pixel count of the 550D's CMOS sensor is something of a double-edged sword. Whilst it means that in optimal conditions, with a high quality lens attached, detail resolution is superb, it can also mean that when viewed at 100% on screen, images taken with cheaper, lower quality optics (including the bundled 'kit' option 18-55mm) look distinctly sub-par. It's an obvious point - higher resolution sensors make higher demands on lenses - but it is one which is easily overlooked in the race to put higher and higher pixel counts into low-end and enthusiast DSLRs.

The unavoidable fact is that to get the most out of the 550D's sensor you really need to pair it with Canon's better lenses, which is a considerable investment. Arguably, this is academic for most enthusiast photographers, since most of the time digital images are either admired onscreen or in small (sub-A4) prints. Of course if this is how you primarily view your images (and if we're honest, for most of us it is), it could be argued that packing 18 million pixels is somewhat unnecessary in the first place.

That said, the bottom line here is that the EOS 550D offers excellent image quality in a range of different conditions, including exceptionally low light, thanks to its usable ISO 12800 setting. Image quality is equal or better than its predecessor the EOS 500D, and not noticeably inferior to the considerably more expensive EOS 7D. The 550D's video capability is excellent too."


Things to notice here:

1. How reviewer when praising its IQ clearly avoided mentioning any cam of other brand. Usually if it were some other brand , the statement would be it is very good but still inferior to X of canon or nikon.

2. Says "not noticeably inferior to the considerably more expensive EOS 7D. The 550D's video capability is excellent too" ,

which is alright but there in the review

http://www.*************/reviews/canoneos550d/page14.asp

completely thrashed by much cheaper k-x.

Now you see the slight of tongue.

Reviewers comments give an impression as if there is nothing like this in its class. But the truth is that there is a cheaper option that does much better than it and their own review's graphs prove it.

11-12-2010, 01:58 AM   #24
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Thanks for pointing it out. When it came to lens evaluation, I never gave much attention to Dpr.

imaging-resource.com and Photozone is better here.

I guess they had their hands full, trying to sell the Eos 60D

The Canon 50/1.4 was never held particularly high, compared to the Pentax.

With Dpr I always merely took offset in a camera review, and then looked into user feedback, to see how things actually worked out.
Nothing new that Dpr twists their view-angle to fit with aim. Though this time around they really appear to have stretched it.


addition :

Dpr has already made the first correction. The Iso was set wrong :
"On the Studio scene comparison (RAW) page, if you set the ISO to 6400 for all images you will note that the D7000 image looks significantly worse than the 60D and K-5 and just about comparable to the 50d. So, I took the liberty of downloading the RAW file labeled: "nikond7000_ISO 6400.NEF". When I open that .NEF file in CNX2 the ISO Sensitivity says: "1 EV over 6400". So it appears that, at least the ISO 6400 image, for the D7000 is actually ISO 12800"http://forums.*************/forums/read.asp?forum=1000&message=36894458
(Thread from the news forum)

Last edited by Jonson PL; 11-12-2010 at 05:34 AM. Reason: New info
11-12-2010, 02:55 AM   #25
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My personal view is that DPReview is a very useful source if you are looking for a Canon or Nikon camera to shoot graph paper and bottles of Baileys. For everything else it is next to useless.

I was recently in the position of coming fresh to a system and could choose between any. I chose the K5 and in all honesty the competitors didn't even come close. I wouldn't worry about what these sites say, people will find the K5 and even if they don't, we have.
11-12-2010, 03:29 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Noidea Quote
My personal view is that DPReview is a very useful source if you are looking for a Canon or Nikon camera to shoot graph paper and bottles of Baileys. For everything else it is next to useless.

I was recently in the position of coming fresh to a system and could choose between any. I chose the K5 and in all honesty the competitors didn't even come close. I wouldn't worry about what these sites say, people will find the K5 and even if they don't, we have.
I really think people who are internet literate and thinking about buying into a new camera system will eventually read everything that is posted anywhere on the internet anyway.
I own a Canon 20D and a 5D and chose the K5 as my new camera which arrived last night.

I did however try to buy it first in a local store here and there clerk said 'do you really want to buy a pentax - sigma is not even making all lenses for them anymore'

So even if there is a Canon Bias over at dpreview it doesn't seem to harm Nikon, Panasonic or Sony sales.
I remember big accusations of them having a Nikon bias after they trashed the Canon 50D and when the D700 and D3 came out.

Just 2 years ago Leica was in big trouble. Their M8 basically sucked and their marketing was quite bad. they were almost forgotten.
Then they made a killer product with the M9 and they rose from the ashes.

So now Pentax has a great camera on there hands that gets a lot of attention. Now if their marketing picks up from there and gets people like mike johnston and steve huff to rave about the new cameras that could be a turning point.
11-12-2010, 04:19 AM   #27
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ah well... this test is poor, but so were quite a few Canon/Nikon reviews in the past, typically Pentax. Fuji, Sigma, Sony and Oly would get "real" reviews while Canon/Nikon sugar coated ones... even though A55 got a lot better review early this time around, so perhaps Sony started to throw its weight this time around...

Remeber Canon 1000D, probably one of their worst bodies, got HR at the time, and nice glowing conculsion... Nikon D60 - just the same... well it is unfortunate, but this is the way the things are...

60D - and leading noise... in the review - just compare it to D7000 or K5 (despite of focus issues/lens) and it is clear that below ISO 1600 60D is quite behind the competition... if a Pentax performed the same, it would be "slammed" in the review for non-competitive high iso, while for 60D - from dpr conclusion:

QuoteQuote:
The 60D's image quality offers few real surprises, given that it utilizes essentially the same sensor and processor as the 550D and 7D. Despite having more pixels than the 50D, which would usually count against it in our pixel-level testing, the 60D improves on its predecessor even at the pixel level - producing very good high ISO images with few signs of the pattern noise (banding) that the 50D could be prone to. In fact, all round image quality is a step forward from the 50D in just about every respect.
.
Dynamic range, noise and color are all up the the high standard we'd expect from our experiences with this sensor in its sister models. It's a sensor that - after all - helped the 7D and 550D produce some of the best image quality in their respective classes. Looking at images from the 60D alongside its competition we are impressed to see that it holds its own very well against the recently announced (and soon to be reviewed) D7000, and (less of a surprise) that it outperforms the new multi-aspect sensor of the Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 towards the upper end of the ISO scale.
there is a comparison with Canon, than inferior competition in m4/3 and an outrigt misleading statement for D7000...

add that to the dodgy image comparison widget... ah whatever... just the way things are

but just as a few % of the market cares about web based review, there is a tiny number of users who will actually notice the difference in sharpness, except pehaps K-5 noise advantage at ISO 6400 ... and a miniscule number of users ( a few hundred at most), who will actually pay attention to the wrong setup, and misleading conclusions etc...

so in total all this most likely does not matter too much except to exonorate glowing Canon reviews in the times when Canon sensors are actually inferior to the competition.
11-12-2010, 04:32 AM   #28
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Just a simple idea. Why these reviewers does not test the camera bodies with a good quality third party lens? There are Zeiss, etc. lenses or even the results should be far more objective with the same type of "lesser" 3rd party lenses like Tamron or Sigma to name the two largest...
11-12-2010, 05:09 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by tmtke Quote
Just a simple idea. Why these reviewers does not test the camera bodies with a good quality third party lens? There are Zeiss, etc. lenses or even the results should be far more objective with the same type of "lesser" 3rd party lenses like Tamron or Sigma to name the two largest...
There is a European magazine (I think it is Swedish) that tests camera bodies using a Sigma 50mm lens, I believe. That certainly seems reasonable.

My perception is that DP Review is more of a shill for Amazon and really push what Amazon wants them to push. At least with some one like Mike Johnston, he will admit to his bias and explain why he like something or, in the case of the K7, get someone else, not familiar with Pentax to do the review.
11-12-2010, 05:43 AM   #30
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ДПР винаги са некоректни и тенденциозни......
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