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11-12-2010, 08:57 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote

*snip*

DPreview has pretty much been Canon's bitch for some time now.
Wheatfield don't you think you are being a bit harsh here? I can see "lackey" or "minion" or even "slave" but "bitch"? Surely that's going a bit far.

NaCl(besides, I like dogs, and eventho DPR is a dog of a site, it gives female dogs a bad name to be compared to DPR)H2O

11-12-2010, 09:52 AM - 1 Like   #47
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I am reading all of this with quite a bit of fascination. It's like the DXO results....when they say the K-r is not rated as high as Pentaxians would think, DXO's test methods are obviously shit. But when the K-5 is proclaimed king of the hill, well, DXO rocks!

Same here. I wonder if there would be any scrutinizing of the test methods if DPR showed that K5 images were clearly better than Canon, and actually said so in print :-)

Not saying I don't agree with you guys to some degree. But as another poster said, never trust one particular review as the definitive answer to your question. Look at many results, and really, who cares if DPR is biased. Aren't we all biased? You made up your mind to buy the K5, there's no need to justify the purchase if it makes you happy.
11-12-2010, 10:13 AM   #48
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You're right, we're all biased to some degree, and it's difficult for somebody to write without their own bias flavoring their writing, even if inadvertently.

But I think the most important thing to come out of this discussion is the non-scientific methods DPR employs when comparing camera output. There is no excuse for them to not normalize the optics and exposure when comparing cameras. Surely, surely, this must have occurred to them at some point. They obviously put in a lot of work in the lab, and while their results can be useful to a degree, they are needlessly compromised.

This may seem like nit-picking, but as somebody else mentioned, all of these cameras produce incredible images. As such, any little difference will be obsessed over. That's why it's important that testing is standardized as much as possible.

Last edited by Edgar_in_Indy; 11-12-2010 at 10:33 AM.
11-12-2010, 10:48 AM   #49
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Whats the big deal if Amazon owns DPR? Do they not sell pentax as well? Is Amazon in bed with Cannon?

11-12-2010, 11:06 AM   #50
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I always remember that, no matter how 'rigorous and scientific' tests are, they are always a statistically-lousy sample of one. A single camera to represent tens of thousands. Sure, if shots are really poor they will send back and get another single sample. And perhaps someone at Canon is better at checking their representative sample of one that DPR gets?

In any case, I expand my samples by visiting a half-dozen sites - still a poor sample size, but far better than one. I came from similarly-persecuted Alpha, the grousing there is similar. And of course, I occasionally read of gripes in Canon forums. The old adage that if everyone dislikes you you must be balanced.. not a fact at all, but a fun way to reconcile disagreements
11-12-2010, 11:45 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by qtopplings Quote
I am reading all of this with quite a bit of fascination. It's like the DXO results....when they say the K-r is not rated as high as Pentaxians would think, DXO's test methods are obviously shit. But when the K-5 is proclaimed king of the hill, well, DXO rocks!
Most of us were proclaiming Pentax misled us with the K-r's "new generation" sensor.
11-12-2010, 04:12 PM - 2 Likes   #52
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How about some sort of blind testing? Someone takes the studio shots with all the cameras, and someone else gets the (renamed) files to write the review with, not knowing which files were from which camera.
11-12-2010, 04:29 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by qtopplings Quote
I am reading all of this with quite a bit of fascination. It's like the DXO results....when they say the K-r is not rated as high as Pentaxians would think, DXO's test methods are obviously shit. But when the K-5 is proclaimed king of the hill, well, DXO rocks!

Same here. I wonder if there would be any scrutinizing of the test methods if DPR showed that K5 images were clearly better than Canon, and actually said so in print :-)

Not saying I don't agree with you guys to some degree. But as another poster said, never trust one particular review as the definitive answer to your question. Look at many results, and really, who cares if DPR is biased. Aren't we all biased? You made up your mind to buy the K5, there's no need to justify the purchase if it makes you happy.
Yes but, WE are not the ones looked to for providing reviews. Good bad or indifferent, DPR is one of the 'trusted' review sites that people Do look to. I can give my review of the K5 (and will) but I doubt it will carry much weight with anybody. The reviews and even Previews, at DPR however, Do carry weight. For that reason, they should remove as much variability as possible from their reviews.



11-12-2010, 04:33 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
Yes but, WE are not the ones looked to for providing reviews. Good bad or indifferent, DPR is one of the 'trusted' review sites that people Do look to. I can give my review of the K5 (and will) but I doubt it will carry much weight with anybody. The reviews and even Previews, at DPR however, Do carry weight. For that reason, they should remove as much variability as possible from their reviews.

I have come to the conclusion that anyone who quoted DPR as gospel is more likely to be clueless and ignorant - and there are many of them out there, sad but true.
11-12-2010, 04:39 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
I have come to the conclusion that anyone who quoted DPR as gospel is more likely to be clueless and ignorant - and there are many of them out there, sad but true.
I've had the same conclusion about ALL online 'professional' review sites since, oh I don't know..... Forever. I take the information I can from them, read between the lines, go out and take pictures, and make my own decisions.

11-12-2010, 04:51 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by secateurs Quote
How about some sort of blind testing? Someone takes the studio shots with all the cameras, and someone else gets the (renamed) files to write the review with, not knowing which files were from which camera.
This is a terrific suggestion. EVERY professional review should follow this method in the 'comparison' section of the review. Without doing so, comparisons will always be biased. Eyes see what mind wants to see. This is a terrific suggestion, did I already say that?


cheers
11-12-2010, 05:05 PM   #57
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John,

I think that there is more going on here than simple bias. If you look closely at the sample images, you can clearly see a crack just below the playing card and to the right of the cross that is very sharp in the Pentax sample but virtually invisible in the Canon one and intermediately sharp in the Nikon one. Hence, the Pentax image is unquestionably back focused. Whether this is due to sloppy technique by the dpr tester or camera/lens miscalibration is uncertain, but it is the main reason why the K-5 image appears so soft. This telltale sign was pointed out by a sharp-eyed pixel peeper on dpr, and I do think that it explains why the dpr sample is not as razor sharp as the numerous K-5 sample images floating around the web, some so sharp that they actually hurt my retinas.

It is to be hoped the dpr will correct their error in the official K-5 review, but I would not count on it.

Rob
11-12-2010, 05:12 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
I can give my review of the K5 (and will) but I doubt it will carry much weight with anybody. The reviews and even Previews, at DPR however, Do carry weight. For that reason, they should remove as much variability as possible from their reviews.

Aw c'mon. Next thing you'll be expecting is Faux News to report objectively.

When Rupert tells you his media is more impartial than other sources then what more objective cred do you need "to believe..."?

Surely it's time that people realised that, without exception, all News & Reviews websites are only another form of vested interest and celebrity-status seeking journalism whose sole purpose is to ploy their crafty wordsmith panderings to a target segment of desperate & lonelies who need to be told how to think and have their prejudices rearranged and emotions-strings pulled by exactly what they want to hear & see.

The old religious preachers and traveling snake-oil peddlers of centuries ago were the foundations of all this leading-the-sheeple-by-the-nose shit.

.R.

Last edited by Hypocorism; 11-12-2010 at 05:22 PM.
11-12-2010, 05:19 PM   #59
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Its a foregone conclusion that any Pentax will always be fighting with one arm tied behind its back at DPR. Personally I would like to see a shootout between a typical Pentax users K-5 and judging by a lot of the members here a selection of kit and a typical Canon 60D users kit and a typical Nikon D7000 users kit. Whats the betting the K-5 would turn up with some FA Ltds, FA*s, DA Ltds and DA*s verses the semi kit lenses on the other 2, i'm thinking 18-105 or 18-135 or maybe even an 18-55?
I have not read that review, I have no need to, I ordered my K-5 today based on my experience with a K20D and peer reviews of the K-5 here. I will review it for myself with my own selection of kit when it arrives, with a faint slant of favouritism
11-12-2010, 05:22 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
If you look closely at the sample images, you can clearly see a crack just below the playing card and to the right of the cross that is very sharp in the Pentax sample but virtually invisible in the Canon one and intermediately sharp in the Nikon one. Hence, the Pentax image is unquestionably back focused.
Time to send some feedback to dpreview!!!

Here's the link: http://www.*************/misc/feedback.asp <--- EDIT: OOPS! Forgot we were boycotting them already!

Directions:
1. Go to dpreview homepage
2. select "Members" menu > Feedback
3. Select "Review / preview error" from the drop-down box
4. go for it!!!

Last edited by secateurs; 11-12-2010 at 05:28 PM. Reason: dpreview blocked!
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