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11-15-2010, 05:27 AM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by Big G Quote
I'm just catching up with what's happened over the weekend, and I am absolutely and utterly shocked at what I've seen across the internet on all the forums since the DPR results came out.

Some of you need to be ashamed of yourselves for behaving like petulant children and spouting general nonsense. The same can be said for those over on the forums at DPR - this is no attack on any brand; Canon, Nikon, Sony or Pentax; this is about the attitude of grown men behaving like spoiled kids. Then, I read about DPR links being banned from here, and DPR banning PF links - the pair of you need to sort it out like men. I feel absolutely embarrassed for both of you. You're accusing DPR of bias, but you're just as bad over here spreading myth and inaccuracies about other brands (see the bottom of my post for such an example).

The level of over-analysis, pixel peeping and whining that has come out of that DPR review is begger's belief. At the end of the day, these camera bodies produce excellent images REGARDLESS of what the review says. Why do you all care so much? It only serves to concrete people's prejudice that us Pentax owners are vehement, over-zealous fanboys; it doesn't do us any justice whatsoever.

I don't give a toss what shortcomings my K20D has, I couldn't care less that my 7D doesn't have an ISO range over 12800, I don't give a flying monkey that the K-5 samples looked "a little bit soft" in the DPR review - noone is going to tell me that my equipment is inferior because *I* am the photographer and the results that I get out of my Canon and Pentax equipment make me happy. There is such minute differences between the three cameras in the review that it really doesn't make an iota of a difference other than the bruising of egos.

What the hell happened to some of you? Call yourselves photographers? A lot of you care more for paper statistics than getting out in the world and putting together a portfolio of excellent work. It's getting very, very boring to read.

I think I need some time out from both here and DPR and return purely to Flickr where I can be with like minded people who discuss photography. It's been a sad couple of days for photography, I bid you all the very best.
.

Nearly any camera out there is capable of taking great photos in the right hands. That being said, camera companies (and review sites owned by retail stores) have to convince you that you "need" the next upgrade that is offered. The problem is not that intelligent photographers sift through the reviews and find what they need, but that the unwashed masses read the conclusion only and view it as the unvarnished truth from an unbiased source.

As to the blocking of DPR links, this has been going on in reverse for a very long time. Seems silly, since it should be a win-win if both sites receive more business as a result, but Adam has to do what he thinks is best.

11-15-2010, 05:50 AM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hypocorism Quote
..............


I do prefer buying from either Digital cameras, all other cameras and everything photographic from Adorama Camera or B&H Photo Video Digital Cameras, Photography, Camcorders though. They are both so customer-friendly and efficient to deal with compared to being drowned in certain shark-infested large rivers...

.R.
I THINK there's a compliment in there somewhere!

Mind you, my son compared me to a velociraptror yesterday; (I think I was out of favor....)
11-15-2010, 06:19 AM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by Helen Oster Quote

Mind you, my son compared me to a velociraptror yesterday; (I think I was out of favor....)
Be careful though, it might have been a compliment from him with a double-entendre attached. I learnt as a parent that likeness to a predatory dinosaur isn't always becoming. And even the most well intending parents can earn that honorary title bestowed upon them when they don't provide endless supplies of food, money, or gifts to their offspring on demand.

In my experience "this instant" and "yesterday" but no later, with no excuses for failure acceptable, are the expected delivery timeframes too.

"I child-proofed my house but they are still getting in." -- Anon

.R.

Last edited by Hypocorism; 11-15-2010 at 07:35 AM.
11-15-2010, 06:48 AM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by Big G Quote
The level of over-analysis, pixel peeping and whining that has come out of that DPR review is begger's belief. At the end of the day, these camera bodies produce excellent images REGARDLESS of what the review says. Why do you all care so much?
While I strongly disagree with tagging Pentax users with this any more than others and disagree with other points made in this post, I do agree that we all get sucked in over differences that are inconsequential in about 99% of the uses of a camera, but they sell reviews and cameras. The fact is that equipment has gotten damn good--better than the vast majority of the users are capable of distinguishing in practice, and better than a lot of testers are capbable of distinguishing accurately and consistently.

Some things do make a big difference in anyone's photography. Significant improvements in high-ISO, AF, SR, ergonomics, etc. show up fairly quickly. Resolution differences between good lenses under optimum conditions visible only at 100% (or more) crops are another matter.

I get why someone would praise the DA55-300 beyond its MTF scores. This is the biggest lens bargain I've seen in many years. I've not encountered a shot where its resolution got in the way of an excellent shot--even on 135 film. I have had only a few occasions where the performance of the less-favored DA50-200 was any impediment. On the Canon side, I shot an event with a co-photographer who used the Canon 18-135, which received less-than-stellar reviews. I used some excellent primes. Her shots were beautiful, and the difference performance of the lenses was not an issue unless you wanted to enlarge a crop of a corner.

IMHO, both the reviewers and those who read the reviews tend to obsess about a lot of things that aren't going to matter much in the vast majority of photography.


Last edited by GeneV; 11-15-2010 at 07:44 AM. Reason: typo
11-15-2010, 07:31 AM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
IMHO, both the reviewers and those who read the reviews tend to obsess about a lot of things that aren't going to matter much in the vast majority of photography.
Ain't that the truth!

Soldier-ant style defensive fanboyism over sacred cow tech-toys has become the new politics, sport and religion battleground of argument for argument's sake.

.R.
11-15-2010, 07:52 AM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by Big G Quote
I'm just catching up with what's happened over the weekend, and I am absolutely and utterly shocked at what I've seen across the internet on all the forums since the DPR results came out.

Some of you need to be ashamed of yourselves for behaving like petulant children and spouting general nonsense.....I don't give a toss what shortcomings my K20D has, I couldn't care less that my 7D doesn't have an ISO range over 12800, I don't give a flying monkey that the K-5 samples looked "a little bit soft" in the DPR review.
I think that what annoys people is that they have become fans of the Pentax brand and have invested their hard-earned money in the Pentax system, and they want to see that brand succeed and, more importantly, SURVIVE. They know that surviving in a landscape dominated by Canon and Nikon is not easy (witness the demise of the Olympus DSLR).

If Pentax does not succeed (ie sell cameras), then the people on here know that they will cease to have access to new and improved bodies and lenses. So I think that's why people get upset when a very influential site like DPR unfairly gives the latest Pentax short shrift. Although many people on this board discount the weight of DPR, the truth is that they likely have a large impact on many buyers.

BTW, you may want to consider toning down the indignation...it's really over the top.

Last edited by Edgar_in_Indy; 11-15-2010 at 08:05 AM.
11-15-2010, 09:24 PM   #127
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Wow...an eye-opener for sure. DPReview has been my 'go-to' site for specs and whatnot for a while. Interesting...
11-16-2010, 12:03 AM   #128
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Anyway....for what its worth....looks like DPRerview has replaced the K-5 shots it used with "better looking" ones ....(after the storm of criticisms).

Its a fairer comparison now...

11-16-2010, 12:38 AM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by kittykat46 Quote
Anyway....for what its worth....looks like DPRerview has replaced the K-5 shots it used with "better looking" ones ....(after the storm of criticisms).

Its a fairer comparison now...
Now that would be good news!

BTW, I don't see any difference...
11-16-2010, 01:07 AM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hypocorism Quote
Soldier-ant style defensive fanboyism over sacred cow tech-toys has become the new politics, sport and religion battleground of argument for argument's sake.
Exactly right. To that end, IMHO, the tone of the original message of Big G was in fact a fair match of the wording and tone of the messages that preceded it.
11-16-2010, 01:16 AM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
Now that would be good news!

BTW, I don't see any difference...
Not much difference, but I think at least the K-5 shots don't have to contend with the "out of focus" handicap anymore.
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Last edited by kittykat46; 11-16-2010 at 01:45 AM.
11-16-2010, 02:21 AM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
Now that would be good news!

BTW, I don't see any difference...
Same here.
I still expect the K5 to be better than what is put up.
The softness at low ISO is really hard to believe from what I am seeing from my camera.

Last edited by pinholecam; 11-16-2010 at 02:32 AM.
11-16-2010, 05:26 AM   #133
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I downloaded one of the K5 JPEGs from the DPR, and the EXIF is showing it was taken on 11-15-10. So definitely an updated pic. Good on them.

Although after comparing the two images I still believe that the K-5 image is overexposed (1/25 @ f/9) vs the Canon image (1/40 @ f/8), giving the Canon image darker blacks, richer colors, and more "pop". I believe this is why the light gray scratch on the wall directly beneath the playing card is clearly visible in the Pentax picture, but is lost in the shadows in the canon picture.

I'm surprised nobody else has commented on the obvious over-exposure of the K-5 image, which I believe is what causes the biggest difference in the images.

Last edited by Edgar_in_Indy; 11-16-2010 at 05:56 AM.
11-16-2010, 06:00 AM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
I downloaded one of the K5 JPEGs from the DPR, and the EXIF is showing it was taken on 11-15-10. So definitely an updated pic. Good on them.

Although after comparing the two images I still believe that the K-5 image is overexposed (1/25 @ f/9) vs the Canon image (1/40 @ f/8), giving the Canon image darker blacks, richer colors, and more "pop". I believe this is why the light gray scratch on the wall directly beneath the playing card is clearly visible in the Pentax picture, but is lost in the shadows in the canon picture.

I'm surprised nobody else has commented on the obvious over-exposure of the K-5 image, which I believe is what causes the biggest difference in the images.
Were these shot in manual mode? My impression from what others have said about the K5 is that it defaults towards over exposure, exposing a lot hotter than the the K10 and K20 cameras did. Not sure if that is the difference.
11-16-2010, 06:05 AM   #135
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Here's what I'm talking about in the over-exposure of the K-5 image compared to the 60D image. Notice how much darker the black in the upper left-hand corner is. In comparison, the black on the Pentax image is more of a gray. And look at how much deeper the shadows are under the card. The lighter shadows in the K-5 pic let you easily see the light-gray scratch on the wall under the playing card.

IMO, the differences in exposure are too great for this to be a useful comparison. Same for the D7000...also overexposed compared to both of the Canon. This is the type of thing that wrongly gives an advantage to the 60D.

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